iyoojin Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyoojin Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyoojin Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 never thought about np. I should have gone to medschool. I think about THAT every day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 never thought about np. I should have gone to medschool. I think about THAT every day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 never thought about np. I should have gone to medschool. I think about THAT every day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68W2PA Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 ... VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges ... Odd. In my city, I've always seen them posted with the same salaries as GS-12 to GS-13 depending on experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68W2PA Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 ... VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges ... Odd. In my city, I've always seen them posted with the same salaries as GS-12 to GS-13 depending on experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68W2PA Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 ... VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges ... Odd. In my city, I've always seen them posted with the same salaries as GS-12 to GS-13 depending on experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 NPs are on the ascendence in many areas of the country. I think that has more to do with supervision rules that may stem from the difference in the regulatory environment (being managed by the Nursing Board and not the Medical Board), being "the tip of the spear" in the very large and well-organized nursing field, and some traditional aspects of the PA job that have persisted since its beginnings. The fact that physicians are less interested in supervising PAs (or anyone else) is playing into that, along with other changes in the practice of medicine. That said, I would still rather be a PA. I was trained across the spectrum of medicine and able to plug into a variety of jobs. I can talk intelligently with my cardiac patients about what will happen when they have their gallbladders removed, hips replaced, or see a psychiatrist. NP training appears to depend on whatever the nurse's clinical experience was prior to entering NP school. Their clinical exposure in school is considerably more limited, which probably makes it a good thing that they specialize in narrower areas of medicine. They are fine people and the NP in our practice is fantastic. (Her pre-NP experience was as a charge nurse in a cardiac ICU.) Clearly we must do more as a profession to put ourselves on a better footing going forward. I like what I see when I read comments on this forum. It's time to put some of those thoughts into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 NPs are on the ascendence in many areas of the country. I think that has more to do with supervision rules that may stem from the difference in the regulatory environment (being managed by the Nursing Board and not the Medical Board), being "the tip of the spear" in the very large and well-organized nursing field, and some traditional aspects of the PA job that have persisted since its beginnings. The fact that physicians are less interested in supervising PAs (or anyone else) is playing into that, along with other changes in the practice of medicine. That said, I would still rather be a PA. I was trained across the spectrum of medicine and able to plug into a variety of jobs. I can talk intelligently with my cardiac patients about what will happen when they have their gallbladders removed, hips replaced, or see a psychiatrist. NP training appears to depend on whatever the nurse's clinical experience was prior to entering NP school. Their clinical exposure in school is considerably more limited, which probably makes it a good thing that they specialize in narrower areas of medicine. They are fine people and the NP in our practice is fantastic. (Her pre-NP experience was as a charge nurse in a cardiac ICU.) Clearly we must do more as a profession to put ourselves on a better footing going forward. I like what I see when I read comments on this forum. It's time to put some of those thoughts into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 NPs are on the ascendence in many areas of the country. I think that has more to do with supervision rules that may stem from the difference in the regulatory environment (being managed by the Nursing Board and not the Medical Board), being "the tip of the spear" in the very large and well-organized nursing field, and some traditional aspects of the PA job that have persisted since its beginnings. The fact that physicians are less interested in supervising PAs (or anyone else) is playing into that, along with other changes in the practice of medicine. That said, I would still rather be a PA. I was trained across the spectrum of medicine and able to plug into a variety of jobs. I can talk intelligently with my cardiac patients about what will happen when they have their gallbladders removed, hips replaced, or see a psychiatrist. NP training appears to depend on whatever the nurse's clinical experience was prior to entering NP school. Their clinical exposure in school is considerably more limited, which probably makes it a good thing that they specialize in narrower areas of medicine. They are fine people and the NP in our practice is fantastic. (Her pre-NP experience was as a charge nurse in a cardiac ICU.) Clearly we must do more as a profession to put ourselves on a better footing going forward. I like what I see when I read comments on this forum. It's time to put some of those thoughts into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... So as someone who is about to sink $120,000 into debt to go to PA school, I have to wonder if things will change for the better, or am I about to make a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... So as someone who is about to sink $120,000 into debt to go to PA school, I have to wonder if things will change for the better, or am I about to make a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 as the NP's leave us in the dust in the political realm I am starting to think I want to somehow go back and get an NP They are kicking our butts VA will hire NP's (because they are independent) in the 80-140k range PA get hired in the $45-90k range - no joke that is the local recent salary ranges I would not want to go through only NP school as I honestly can not see learning any less then I did in PA school and not being dangerous..... gotta learn the hard sciences.... BUT if there was some way to take a distance NP course now over a year or so I would sign up in a heart beat..... So as someone who is about to sink $120,000 into debt to go to PA school, I have to wonder if things will change for the better, or am I about to make a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Being a PA would be the ideal job if there is somebody backs you up, search online and see, the nursing association is doing alot for their nps to get their independence and TAKING OFF some rules and regulations would restrict them, while look at us PAs, our association keeps putting restrictions and rules and regulations that restrict us. The job market is leaning toward Nps because MDs feel "SAFE" , nps are independent and doctors think they wouldnt get sued if the np messed up. Just FYI, with obamacare nps will get independence to open their clinic in all states, with the lower compensation and diversion of patients to nps because they can be primary care, the pay for pas will be much lower that if not alot of pas will lose their jobs because the MD will not afford hiring a pa. also you will have to move to another state to find a job that if there is any left. The nursing association has DONE ALOT FOR THEIR NPS to be recognized and have respect, what did CAPA and AAPA do to us, they cant even change a name , be a member and support them to SUPPORT YOU, instead they tell you , you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Nps in hospitals are treated like DOCTORS, PAs are ASSISTANTS with more restrictions. oh everybody their employer pay their malpractice ask them how much it costs, EVEN insurance companies discriminate , nps pay much more less than pas as WE ARE A LIABILITY. Ive seen on this post that new grad pas are offered ridiculous pay, 20s/hr . Did you ask yourself these questions? why PAs have to be flexible and move from state to state to find a job sometimes, while nps are taking over Im not being negative , but the nursing association is like a monster and they fight really bad for what they want and they get it, even medical board cant argue with the nursing association, but they fight against us because they know we are weak and we have no say . you never know, Nps will be supervising PAs while our association is just taking money and adding rules and regulations that restrict us more. Did you hear this before : " HELLO PATIENT X, IM DR X AND THIS IS SO MY ASSISTANT or MY PA !!! HEY DOCTOR IM A PA AND I WORK FOR YOU IM NOT YOURS. Im not being negative , but all this is true and its reality, dont fool yourself and convince yourself. I would be a PA all my life if i felt there is somebody backs me up , nursing unions are very powerful and they are infiltrating the medical field, hospitals are run by them. look at the NCCPA , adding CAQs exam for specialties, come on now, its sometimes hard enough already to get a job , now you are adding more qualifications, employers will be asking for these exams also PA profession will be a specialty not like we always know , flexible pas can move back and forth from specialty to another !!! WAKE UP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Being a PA would be the ideal job if there is somebody backs you up, search online and see, the nursing association is doing alot for their nps to get their independence and TAKING OFF some rules and regulations would restrict them, while look at us PAs, our association keeps putting restrictions and rules and regulations that restrict us. The job market is leaning toward Nps because MDs feel "SAFE" , nps are independent and doctors think they wouldnt get sued if the np messed up. Just FYI, with obamacare nps will get independence to open their clinic in all states, with the lower compensation and diversion of patients to nps because they can be primary care, the pay for pas will be much lower that if not alot of pas will lose their jobs because the MD will not afford hiring a pa. also you will have to move to another state to find a job that if there is any left. The nursing association has DONE ALOT FOR THEIR NPS to be recognized and have respect, what did CAPA and AAPA do to us, they cant even change a name , be a member and support them to SUPPORT YOU, instead they tell you , you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Nps in hospitals are treated like DOCTORS, PAs are ASSISTANTS with more restrictions. oh everybody their employer pay their malpractice ask them how much it costs, EVEN insurance companies discriminate , nps pay much more less than pas as WE ARE A LIABILITY. Ive seen on this post that new grad pas are offered ridiculous pay, 20s/hr . Did you ask yourself these questions? why PAs have to be flexible and move from state to state to find a job sometimes, while nps are taking over Im not being negative , but the nursing association is like a monster and they fight really bad for what they want and they get it, even medical board cant argue with the nursing association, but they fight against us because they know we are weak and we have no say . you never know, Nps will be supervising PAs while our association is just taking money and adding rules and regulations that restrict us more. Did you hear this before : " HELLO PATIENT X, IM DR X AND THIS IS SO MY ASSISTANT or MY PA !!! HEY DOCTOR IM A PA AND I WORK FOR YOU IM NOT YOURS. Im not being negative , but all this is true and its reality, dont fool yourself and convince yourself. I would be a PA all my life if i felt there is somebody backs me up , nursing unions are very powerful and they are infiltrating the medical field, hospitals are run by them. look at the NCCPA , adding CAQs exam for specialties, come on now, its sometimes hard enough already to get a job , now you are adding more qualifications, employers will be asking for these exams also PA profession will be a specialty not like we always know , flexible pas can move back and forth from specialty to another !!! WAKE UP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan83 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I was hoping to work for the VA or Federal/State entity because of its retirement benefits (20yrs) + health care etc. but looking at the pay scale and job listings, I'm getting the vibe that NP's are desired more and compensated better... FYI In the VA, as a patient, I've seen a NP and a PA as my PCP and they were very similar.. so in family practice atleast, they do the same line of work I assume. Any inputs? Being a PA would be the ideal job if there is somebody backs you up, search online and see, the nursing association is doing alot for their nps to get their independence and TAKING OFF some rules and regulations would restrict them, while look at us PAs, our association keeps putting restrictions and rules and regulations that restrict us. The job market is leaning toward Nps because MDs feel "SAFE" , nps are independent and doctors think they wouldnt get sued if the np messed up. Just FYI, with obamacare nps will get independence to open their clinic in all states, with the lower compensation and diversion of patients to nps because they can be primary care, the pay for pas will be much lower that if not alot of pas will lose their jobs because the MD will not afford hiring a pa. also you will have to move to another state to find a job that if there is any left. The nursing association has DONE ALOT FOR THEIR NPS to be recognized and have respect, what did CAPA and AAPA do to us, they cant even change a name , be a member and support them to SUPPORT YOU, instead they tell you , you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Nps in hospitals are treated like DOCTORS, PAs are ASSISTANTS with more restrictions. oh everybody their employer pay their malpractice ask them how much it costs, EVEN insurance companies discriminate , nps pay much more less than pas as WE ARE A LIABILITY. Ive seen on this post that new grad pas are offered ridiculous pay, 20s/hr . Did you ask yourself these questions? why PAs have to be flexible and move from state to state to find a job sometimes, while nps are taking over Im not being negative , but the nursing association is like a monster and they fight really bad for what they want and they get it, even medical board cant argue with the nursing association, but they fight against us because they know we are weak and we have no say . you never know, Nps will be supervising PAs while our association is just taking money and adding rules and regulations that restrict us more. Did you hear this before : " HELLO PATIENT X, IM DR X AND THIS IS SO MY ASSISTANT or MY PA !!! HEY DOCTOR IM A PA AND I WORK FOR YOU IM NOT YOURS. Im not being negative , but all this is true and its reality, dont fool yourself and convince yourself. I would be a PA all my life if i felt there is somebody backs me up , nursing unions are very powerful and they are infiltrating the medical field, hospitals are run by them. look at the NCCPA , adding CAQs exam for specialties, come on now, its sometimes hard enough already to get a job , now you are adding more qualifications, employers will be asking for these exams also PA profession will be a specialty not like we always know , flexible pas can move back and forth from specialty to another !!! WAKE UP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Hmm? This isn't the case in California, the NPs have to take a controlled substances course as well as PAs. If there was a post on here about a 20 dollar an hour job, trust me that it was posted so that we could laugh at it. PAs generally make a very high salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Hmm? This isn't the case in California, the NPs have to take a controlled substances course as well as PAs. If there was a post on here about a 20 dollar an hour job, trust me that it was posted so that we could laugh at it. PAs generally make a very high salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 you cant prescribe narcotics without MD permission till you take a course which CAPA gives and they charge for it. Nps dont have to do this thing. Hmm? This isn't the case in California, the NPs have to take a controlled substances course as well as PAs. If there was a post on here about a 20 dollar an hour job, trust me that it was posted so that we could laugh at it. PAs generally make a very high salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalPalm Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 PA vs NP...this is what I'm trying to figure out as well, and it's a somewhat difficult decision for me. I LOVE the PA educational model. Looking at the courses, I appreciate that it's essentially an abbreviated form of medical school, designed to give the student the knowledge to begin practice as an "advanced practice clinician". The heavy science (both basic and medical) focus of the programs are very attractive to me. In contrast, NP programs seem less rigorous to me (though they certainly include courses in pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc. And with the DNP, it seems like they just add on more fluff, with no real clinical/medical science additions. And the 1000 hours of clinical in the DNP programs is still less than that of PA programs (and prior nursing experience, while beneficial (I know PAs can appreciate prior healthcare experience), is not the same as experience in learning to function as an "advanced practice clinician"). It also seems to me that NP program clinical experiences are more "preceptorships", and I am more interested in the traditional medical model of clinical learning, though maybe that's because that's pretty much what I've been exposed to at work, outside of the random NP students precepting. On the other hand, the advances in the NP profession are certainly attractive, especially their expansion as "independent" providers, as well as various restrictions (here in NY, it seems like the "collaboration" required for NPs is functionally "independence", though I'm not sure how the "supervision" of PAs is in comparison. I was reading the ER PA scope of practice at my hospital yesterday, and it seems like they have decent scope, with various diagnoses falling under the "treat and release" heading, where they can diagnose, manage, treat, etc the patient and discharge them without presenting to the attending (though nothing too exciting, mostly primary care issues), and all others requiring presentation to the attending if admission is necessary.) They also have the benefits that come from being part of the nursing profession, with various opportunities for leadership and other clinical practice options that may not be available to PAs. Downside is I'd have to get my BSN, at least a year experience, then 3 years for the DNP-ACNP. So not sure which way to go at this point, though I do appreciate the goals of PAFT as I've read on this forum and their website. My interests lie in cardiothoracic surgery, critical care, and transplant (not interested in family medicine, peds, or psych), areas that seem to be more open to PAs than NPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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