drbeck Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Concerning HCE i have over 1000 hours shadowing a PA in the wound care field. However, that experience was limited to asking the PA questions, him asking things of me, and very minor assisting work. Wound care is comprised mostly of geriatric possibly non-ambulatory patients. Most of the cases you see are of pressure wounds of varying stages, diabetic/arterial injuries, which cause necrotic and gangrene of tissue and extremities. Then there is the possible reopening of a wound post-op due to movement or medical cause which needs to be tended to. My question is since some of the material I was subjected to was not as encompassing as say an EMT, which see more of a wide range of cases and can do procedure with equipment, will I be at a great disadvantage and need to play catch up in school or will they teach on a level field not assuming that students already know certain procedures or medical material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Programs teach everyone as if they've never seen a patient before. You will, however, be at a disadvantage when it comes to competing against applicants with HCE, and in my opinion during rotations as well; considering your limited patient contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 18, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2012 do it right. get some hce or you will be totally lost and at a significant disadvantage in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 There are a couple of general things that make healthcare experience valuable. Interaction with patients. Interviewing patients and learning how to elicit historical details is an art, and any experience you have prior to PA school will help you tremendously. Same thing is true of speaking to family/caregivers of a patient. If you are shadowing your scope is already limited. Think about how often you are practicing those skills. Students who have lots of experience in this area are more immediately comfortable asking patients difficult questions, they understand which questions will provide the best yield of information, and they may find it easier to logically sequence their questioning. All of that amounts to a more organized approach to the patient and a better impression on preceptors. Familiarity with healthcare systems, procedures, and equipment. Like Gator said, school teaches everyone as though they've never seen a patient or touched a stethoscope. But... there's nothing quite like watching a student who clearly has never spent time in a hospital room walk in, fumble with the bed rails, tray table, telemetry screen, and BP cuff before she even gets to the real physical exam. Patients in the ICU have a thousand tubes going in and drains coming out, and you still need to wiggle around and examine them without wrecking something or provoking an anxiety attack in their spouse. I don't think you need to have mastered a bunch of procedures. If you get into school you're smart and you'll learn. But having some prior exposure really removes some of the fear I think many students experience, just of the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 1000 hours? Was this a friend/family member? That's six months of 40 hour work weeks. Either you were having a blast and need to get a job as a MA so you can get paid for doing the same thing or you may want to consider evaluating your obsessive compulsive habit. You obviously have a passion for it.. no way anyone would have stuck around for 1000 hours if they didn't love it...harness that energy and spread your wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbeck Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 See this is the problem with HCE. There is a wide range of things you can do that are under HCE. The top end of the spectrum would be people who worked in the military as a medical professional coming back and want to get into the PA profession. The same goes for EMTs. Both these professions have had direct hands on care dealing with patients, and preform procedures on them (placing a respirator tube, placing a line in the patient etc.) These choices offer the most hands on experience and prior medical knowledge for HCE when applying for PA school. However, to become an EMT you must go through the course which takes multiple months, and the other option is being in the military. Graduating with a Bachelors in Biology doesn't lend any certification for hands on care with patients so I opted for the next best thing which was a preceptorship with a PA where before seeing each patient I read the chart and was given an overview of the patient history and what he was there to do. Then I would assist what I could due to insurance and liability issues, and would explain as he went along. I've seen people apply with HCE stating they simply worked in a hospital or out patient facility not doing really anything medical wise. So there is a range of HCE. I did what I was able to do during undergrad track for my Bachelors the other 2 alternative would have required I put side my degree and took those courses then practiced for an additional amount of time. Just made the most sense to do shadowing while completing my degree and up until application. I was just worried that we were expected to know how to do some medical procedure like placing a line, ventilator tube etc. prior to start of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbeck Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 1000 hours? Was this a friend/family member? That's six months of 40 hour work weeks. Either you were having a blast and need to get a job as a MA so you can get paid for doing the same thing or you may want to consider evaluating your obsessive compulsive habit. You obviously have a passion for it.. no way anyone would have stuck around for 1000 hours if they didn't love it...harness that energy and spread your wings Neither I was able to gain a preceptorship to a company and they placed me with a PA. Since we got along well with minimal interuption to his work he allowed me to continue as long as I desired. I stuck around because It gave me more face time with patients. I got to see different cases and how they progressed or digressed, learned the scope of practice of the PA, dealing with a range of patients. This would possibly be more than I would have received had a got a job as a MA. while you do take vitals, which i know how to do already due to a course, much of the responsibilities of a MA are paper work. (scheduling patients for visits, filing charts, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Try getting a job in the ER as an EKG tech or EMT. If you live in Southern California you can get certified in 4 weeks (that's what I did). Try finding accelerated programs that'll get you hands on experience. I shadowed 500 hours and it's no where near the same as having that direct contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beattie228 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Shadowing is arguably the least important aspect of your application. It's one of those things where everyone has a bit of it on their application because everyone else around them also has a bit of it on their application. The healthcare experience required by most PA program is crucial for you to not only understand what the role of a PA is within the interdisciplinary team (which you seem to have observed an extensive amount of that), but more importantly to allow you to be more comfortable interacting with patients. That comfort with speaking to patients and developing your bedside manner doesn't come from a lecture, but instead from routine contact with patients. There are a couple of PA programs with no HCE requirement, Yale being the only one I know off of the top of my head due to my personal interactions with the program, but almost every other program wants to see quality HCE. If you're not able to gain that HCE, you can either plan on applying to the schools that don't require HCE and crossing your fingers that the rest of your application is competitive enough to land you an interview, or contemplate going to medical school where HCE is a nonissue. As far as being expected to know some of the medical procedures you listed, that shouldn't be a concern for you. Any procedure you're expected to know as a PA student will come from your PA training and clinical rotations and not from previous experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Neither I was able to gain a preceptorship to a company and they placed me with a PA. Since we got along well with minimal interuption to his work he allowed me to continue as long as I desired. I stuck around because It gave me more face time with patients. I got to see different cases and how they progressed or digressed, learned the scope of practice of the PA, dealing with a range of patients. This would possibly be more than I would have received had a got a job as a MA. while you do take vitals, which i know how to do already due to a course, much of the responsibilities of a MA are paper work. (scheduling patients for visits, filing charts, etc) I have learned via my clinical rotations that a MA can make or break a PA's day. Yes, they do paperwork. They also take report, deal with the pharmacy, call back patients to give results and follow up instructions, take the subjective history when they room the patient, assist in minor procedures/casting, give patient education, give injections, keep track of immunizations, and otherwise maintain a flowing clinic. If it was not for them, the productivity of a PA is severely hampered. They are performing jobs that a PA will have to if there is no MA. If you think that all a MA does it take vitals then man, are you in for an eye opener. The PAs I have worked with have had outstanding MAs who save their bacon every day due to the scope of what they do. But sounds like you have it all figured out already. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 18, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2012 Shadowing is arguably the least important aspect of your application.. nope...non-clinical research....:) that's almost a deal breaker...if you wasted time on that I'm probably going to look for someone else who had their priorities straight.....it's obvious those folks were shooting for medschool and are applying for pa school when that didn't pan out...the other clue is asking to submit mcats instead of gre's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Neither I was able to gain a preceptorship to a company and they placed me with a PA. Since we got along well with minimal interuption to his work he allowed me to continue as long as I desired. I stuck around because It gave me more face time with patients. I got to see different cases and how they progressed or digressed, learned the scope of practice of the PA, dealing with a range of patients. This would possibly be more than I would have received had a got a job as a MA. while you do take vitals, which i know how to do already due to a course, much of the responsibilities of a MA are paper work. (scheduling patients for visits, filing charts, etc) That's all MAs do huh? Yah you're right your vast 1000 hrs of watching someone else work are better... Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen0508 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 1000 hours of shadowing? why? might as well take a 2-4 week CNA/tech course and get direct patient contact experience.... learn basic skills like phlebotomy.. learn patient interaction...get paid.. and most of all get valid HCE (shadowing is not HCE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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