Administrator rev ronin Posted January 17, 2023 Administrator Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/14/2023 at 8:38 PM, rev ronin said: No, one that said the "Lebensunwertes Leben" part out loud. Sorry to have apparently stopped the conversation dead, but it wasn't my intent. Given a single payer system, utilitarian ethics ("the most good for the most individuals"), economic scarcity, and a non-Hippocratic take on life... why would anyone think that killing off the most expensive to care for individuals wouldn't be a logical next step? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 47 minutes ago, rev ronin said: Sorry to have apparently stopped the conversation dead, but it wasn't my intent. Given a single payer system, utilitarian ethics ("the most good for the most individuals"), economic scarcity, and a non-Hippocratic take on life... why would anyone think that killing off the most expensive to care for individuals wouldn't be a logical next step? Because the "B School" approach is to cut your losses and not investing in a losing proposition . We see the "B School" folks and lawyers running healthcare and it's ongoing evolution in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, rev ronin said: Sorry to have apparently stopped the conversation dead, but it wasn't my intent. Given a single payer system, utilitarian ethics ("the most good for the most individuals"), economic scarcity, and a non-Hippocratic take on life... why would anyone think that killing off the most expensive to care for individuals wouldn't be a logical next step? Isn't that already on display in Canada? There is another thread with several accounts of people calling various helplines and being advised that euthanasia is a great option. As for implosion, it's naive to think it is only affecting healthcare. All of America is facing a big reset, and it's not going to be pretty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, CAAdmission said: As for implosion, it's naive to think it is only affecting healthcare. All of America is facing a big reset, and it's not going to be pretty. Who has a crystal ball (terrific Styx song btw) and can foretell what this looks like? The collapse of Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 10 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said: Who has a crystal ball (terrific Styx song btw) and can foretell what this looks like? The collapse of Russia? I suspect China is delighted that Russia and the US will eventually bankrupt each other in a proxy war. The Chinese probably can't have the US totally collapse since we are a primary market for their goods. But that's a whole other thread. Our country has unfathomable expenses and debt. People hear a "trillion" and think it's just like a billion, only a little bigger. For context: 1 million seconds: 11 days, 14 hours. 1 billion seconds: 31 years 1 trillion seconds: 31,710 years Our society cannot continue like this. Some sort of collapse is inevitable. If any business ran the way our government is run, it would cease to exist in short order. The only thing keeping the government running is its ability to use legalized violence, and people buying into the illusion of stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Ukraine is not what is bankrupting us. What does the collapse of America look like? How does one prepare? The collapse of Russia is one model (a peaceful but chaotic fracturing into regional governments). Maybe we revert back to being a Republic of States....I think that would be the best way forward. The collapse of Rome is another model, we already have the invasion, and between the Trumpers/anti-trumpers/election problems we could easily have a Rubicon moment with the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, CAAdmission said: I suspect China is delighted that Russia and the US will eventually bankrupt each other in a proxy war. The Chinese probably can't have the US totally collapse since we are a primary market for their goods. But that's a whole other thread. Our country has unfathomable expenses and debt. People hear a "trillion" and think it's just like a billion, only a little bigger. For context: 1 million seconds: 11 days, 14 hours. 1 billion seconds: 31 years 1 trillion seconds: 31,710 years Our society cannot continue like this. Some sort of collapse is inevitable. If any business ran the way our government is run, it would cease to exist in short order. The only thing keeping the government running is its ability to use legalized violence, and people buying into the illusion of stability. 1 hour ago, Boatswain2PA said: Ukraine is not what is bankrupting us. What does the collapse of America look like? How does one prepare? The collapse of Russia is one model (a peaceful but chaotic fracturing into regional governments). Maybe we revert back to being a Republic of States....I think that would be the best way forward. The collapse of Rome is another model, we already have the invasion, and between the Trumpers/anti-trumpers/election problems we could easily have a Rubicon moment with the next election. "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's money" Alexis De Tocqueville In other words, buy votes with the public treasure and reward their financial supporters /owners! Edited January 17, 2023 by CAdamsPAC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Many here have brought up WHO statistics, and I agree ours suck. But, we also have to look at those in context. Look at our population and our culture. Even if our healthcare system was perfect (it's not, it needs a MAJOR overhaul) it's hard to overcome a culture of little to no activity, crash dieting, binge eating, etc. In countries where "American culture" has begun to pervade significantly obesity rates are increasing and health outcomes dropping. I liken this to when I used to teach. Parents, administrators, politicians, etc. all hold teachers responsible for the piss poor education that students receive. But, when I taught high school science I had the kids for 50 minutes per day and at least 1/3rd of my students could not read...and I'm not exaggerating. They COULD NOT read. How in the hell can I be held responsible for their lack of science education? How can the teachers before me be held responsible when the parents do nothing? It's the same in healthcare. I can tell patients the best treatments and review the best lifestyle changes until I'm blue in the face, but it's up to the patient to actually make the changes. Their hypertension isn't going to improve if they don't take their lisinopril. I have a friend who is a "prediabetic." He was surprised that his blood sugar hadn't improved with a 5lb weight gain over the last 3 months with no change in activity and hasn't been taking his metformin regularly at all. Of course this is somewhat getting off topic, but it's important to keep in mind that the WHO and similar statistics don't provide the full picture. Numbers can be manipulated to show almost anything that the statistician wants to show. Does this mean we don't need a massive overhaul of our healthcare system? We absolutely do, and I do agree that we are close to imploding with the loss of providers, support staff, and ancillary staff. It's honestly frightening. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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