How Much $$ is Your Time Worth? What "quality of life" really means -

[brazilbrowneyes]

I'm interested to hear what you seasoned PA's have to say about this:

 

Recently I heard of a job in neurosurgery, and as a new grad the starting salary would be "at least 6 figures" and then on call pay was generally $45-55K additionally because they are having to cover a LOT due to being low in staff at the moment. However, in this current position you'd be working around 80-100 hrs. a week. Decent benefits by way of insurance and other bennies ($4K in CME's, 30 days off plus 1 week for CME's). The employees there are very open and honest about the fact that PA's come, get lots of money for lots of hours, then leave. But it's a quick way to pay off student loans and get an extremely high exposure to different things in a relatively short amount of time as this is a level 1 trauma hospital. They then move on to the "cushy dream career" after paying their dues.

 

But what do you do with when you have a family? I can see how you could just plow through a job like that being single, but when you have young kids, is the money worth the time away from your family, even if it is only for 2 or 3 years?

[Joelseff]

I'm interested to hear what you seasoned PA's have to say about this:

 

Recently I heard of a job in neurosurgery, and as a new grad the starting salary would be "at least 6 figures" and then on call pay was generally $45-55K additionally because they are having to cover a LOT due to being low in staff at the moment. However, in this current position you'd be working around 80-100 hrs. a week. Decent benefits by way of insurance and other bennies ($4K in CME's, 30 days off plus 1 week for CME's). The employees there are very open and honest about the fact that PA's come, get lots of money for lots of hours, then leave. But it's a quick way to pay off student loans and get an extremely high exposure to different things in a relatively short amount of time as this is a level 1 trauma hospital. They then move on to the "cushy dream career" after paying their dues.

 

But what do you do with when you have a family? I can see how you could just plow through a job like that being single, but when you have young kids, is the money worth the time away from your family, even if it is only for 2 or 3 years?

 

No......................

[jsfelder0417]

I'm only a student, but I would agree with Joelseff on this one. A couple tours overseas has rearranged my priorities, and placed time with family way over wealth.

[jmj11]

I'm interested to hear what you seasoned PA's have to say about this:

 

Recently I heard of a job in neurosurgery, and as a new grad the starting salary would be "at least 6 figures" and then on call pay was generally $45-55K additionally because they are having to cover a LOT due to being low in staff at the moment. However, in this current position you'd be working around 80-100 hrs. a week. Decent benefits by way of insurance and other bennies ($4K in CME's, 30 days off plus 1 week for CME's). The employees there are very open and honest about the fact that PA's come, get lots of money for lots of hours, then leave. But it's a quick way to pay off student loans and get an extremely high exposure to different things in a relatively short amount of time as this is a level 1 trauma hospital. They then move on to the "cushy dream career" after paying their dues.

 

But what do you do with when you have a family? I can see how you could just plow through a job like that being single, but when you have young kids, is the money worth the time away from your family, even if it is only for 2 or 3 years?

 

On their death bed, virtually no one says "I wish I had worked more or made more money," many say, "I wish I had spent more quality time with my family or friends." With that said, I can certainly see situation where you must earn allot to pay debts and etc. I did work two jobs, total 7 days a week, for two years because we owned two homes (actually owned two homes for almost ten years because one would not sell). But I did it to buy food and clothes for my kids.

[physasst]

No one can answer this question for you. No one else here knows your financial situation, career goals, etc.

 

While it may be a ton of hours, there is a secondary benefit besides the money. Education. Spending 1-2 years in that sort of an environment will likely be equal to 5+ years elsewhere. NOTHING can substitute for experience and just seeing a sh*tload of pathology and patients.

 

Of course, you also have young kids. No one else here can tell you whether or not it would be worth it for YOUR situation.

 

Sincerely, good luck

[TWR]

PA for 26 years here. How sharp do you think you would be working those 80-100 hours per week. That averages out to 14 hour days based on 7 day week. As far as exposure to a lot of pathology yes. Retention and acting appropriately as the 100 hour approaches or even 70 hours, I don't think so. It sounds like an abuse and is it legal? I thought there were hour limits for residencies. Don't let them abuse you. Neurosurgery is no walk in the park. Any park. Speak to PAs in the field. IMO------ Never put a job before family. Take this advise from an old dog who learned the hard way. Be there for your wife and children. Just my 2 cents.

[physasst]

PA for 26 years here. How sharp do you think you would be working those 80-100 hours per week. That averages out to 14 hour days based on 7 day week. As far as exposure to a lot of pathology yes. Retention and acting appropriately as the 100 hour approaches or even 70 hours, I don't think so. It sounds like an abuse and is it legal? I thought there were hour limits for residencies. Don't let them abuse you. Neurosurgery is no walk in the park. Any park. Speak to PAs in the field. IMO------ Never put a job before family. Take this advise from an old dog who learned the hard way. Be there for your wife and children. Just my 2 cents.

 

My experience, doing over 100 hours in Neurosurgery my first 8 months (every other night call-in house), suggested that I learned more in that 8 months than at almost any other time in my career.

 

I disagreed with the residency hour restrictions, and still do.

[discogenic]

My experience, doing over 100 hours in Neurosurgery my first 8 months (every other night call-in house), suggested that I learned more in that 8 months than at almost any other time in my career.

 

I disagreed with the residency hour restrictions, and still do.

 

What are your thoughts on sleep deprivation and medical errors? I know there's mixed data on this, but it seems to make sense that an overly fatigued resident (or anybody) would be more prone to make an error. On the flipside, shorter shifts would mean more handoffs, which apparently is at least as bad from an error standpoint.

[physasst]

What are your thoughts on sleep deprivation and medical errors? I know there's mixed data on this, but it seems to make sense that an overly fatigued resident (or anybody) would be more prone to make an error. On the flipside, shorter shifts would mean more handoffs, which apparently is at least as bad from an error standpoint.

 

I think the initial premise made sense. The problem is, when they re-examined this in 2007, they found a slight reduction in mortality for medical patients, but no change in outcomes for surgical patients.

 

http://annals.org/article.aspx?volume=147&issue=2&page=73

 

To me, this means that you have to re-examine your hypothesis. Instead, they wanted to restrict hours further. I think medical errors by residents occured after hours NOT because of lack of sleep, but because of a lack of supervision in "off hours". Also, what will these residents do when they enter practice? A LOT of attendings don't get 8 hours off between shifts...

 

Maybe it's because I was trained before the hour restrictions.....certainly there is likely a bias there on my part.

 

Also, as this SR noted....there was a reduction in mortality, BUT, this was also found in non-teaching hospitals, which means the finding may likely be independent of resident hour restrictions.

 

http://jbjs.org/article.aspx?articleid=6177

[ventana]

I have worked some crappy hours - been gone to long, missed to much of life, got fat and grumpy....

 

was it worth it? tough call - learned a lot - great exposure, great education

 

if you are doing it just for the $$ heck no - if it is for the knowledge and exposure maybe....

 

with kids in the picture - gotta beleive it would be a big FAT NO

[winterallsummer]

What about a "compromise" - 60 hr/wk CT surgery (or other) for 2-3 years to pay off loans?

[1fitPA]

I've been employed in the same Fam. Prac. for 14 years with no call, no weekends, low-volume schedules, 2-hour lunches, 1/2 day Tuesdays and maximal autonomy. I have an "average" salary and have had offers over the years to work in busy, high-volume settings making twice as much. In retrospect, I am glad to have declined all of those previous offers as my time has become my most valuable asset and I would rather have it no other way.