Fear of practicing as a PA

[Guest Eve3362]

3 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

nope. The SP must have the same skill set as the PA they work with.

Ok so I'm wondering what would be a doctors reason for wanting to supervise a PA in psych when they don't work in that field? 

[EMEDPA]

39 minutes ago, Eve3362 said:

Ok so I'm wondering what would be a doctors reason for wanting to supervise a PA in psych when they don't work in that field? 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

any questions?

[Guest Eve3362]

3 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

any questions?

Can't he get in trouble for doing something like that? I really believe he's trying to keep me around to lighten his load but to pay me less than what he would have paid a more experienced provider. Because if he felt I was not ready to see patients on my own,  why not go ahead and hire an experienced provider? Also he told me about a psych opportunity at an ALF and then he offered me to still come work in his office in the form of mentorship and he'll pay me until I'm ready to manage patients on my own. He also said that the psychiatrist at the ALF probably wouldn't be able to mentor me so that why he could be my supervising physician instead of the psychiatrist and he could take care of the billing part it sounds manipulative to me and I'm a new grad so I feel like he's taking advantage of that  

[EMEDPA]

he can't supervise you if he doesn't know the specialty. it would be like a family med doc supervising a surgical pa doing vein harvesting. if you can't do it, you can't supervise it.

the state would likely frown on that arrangement if they found out...

[Guest Eve3362]

59 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

he can't supervise you if he doesn't know the specialty. it would be like a family med doc supervising a surgical pa doing vein harvesting. if you can't do it, you can't supervise it.

the state would likely frown on that arrangement if they found out...

Yes he is showing that he's about his own personal gain and preying on the fact that I'm a new grad. Like a friend told me I just need to move on from that practice 

[rev ronin]

OP, assuming you're telling the truth in what you've told us, your program has done a terrible job helping you transition to practice.  Which school was this?  PM me if you don't want to post on the forum... I'd like to call their attention to this.

[Guest Eve3362]

9 hours ago, rev ronin said:

OP, assuming you're telling the truth in what you've told us, your program has done a terrible job helping you transition to practice.  Which school was this?  PM me if you don't want to post on the forum... I'd like to call their attention to this.

I rather not get the school involved,  I just feel that the year lapse has made it difficult for me

[BayPAC]

okay... I think we all have fear of practicing medicine as a new grad. I remember how nervous I was when I wrote my first prescription. So many "what if's" I had in my mind. Fear of hurting someone has helped me to study more, to investigate more... I don't rely on everything my SP tells me. I'm always reading, questioning.... Fear is a good thing as long as you don't let the feeling to control you. 

That being said, you have to accept a job at some point (soon!!). Oh.. working in psych having a SP who is not in psych is a big no-no. Who would guide you, answer your questions about you psych cases? And you will have tones of questions in the beginning. 

Wish you the best! 

[MT2PA]

1 hour ago, Eve3362 said:

I rather not get the school involved,  I just feel that the year lapse has made it difficult for me

But you do realize the school let you down?  Why so long from graduation to taking PANCE?  Why so afraid to accept a position?  The current situation you are in should have raised alarm bells long ago - it's one thing to shadow for  day to see if you like the position but quite another to essentially work for free for 2 weeks.  Your school should have explained the legality of how an SP works (i.e you can only practice under their scope of practice).

You are at a year lapse bc of a delay in PANCE (for whatever reason) and for not accepting offered positions.  Your school should have helped guide you in identifying appropriate positions for a new grad.  How to find a supporting environment.  An advisor should have been available if you wanted to discuss what kind of position might have been right for you.  Or if a residency was right for you.  Every new grad is nervous about their first job but usually students who take a year to find a job is bc they can't find one or don't want to just yet...you don't seem to fall into either of those categories.  Programs who leave their students high and dry are a disservice to the profession.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

25 minutes ago, BayPAC said:

okay... I think we all have fear of practicing medicine as a new grad. I remember how nervous I was when I wrote my first prescription. So many "what if's" I had in my mind. Fear of hurting someone has helped me to study more, to investigate more... I don't rely on everything my SP tells me. I'm always reading, questioning.... Fear is a good thing as long as you don't let the feeling to control you. 

That being said, you have to accept a job at some point (soon!!). Oh.. working in psych having a SP who is not in psych is a big no-no. Who would guide you, answer your questions about you psych cases? And you will have tones of questions in the beginning. 

Wish you the best! 

I thought that I was well prepared to function in the PA role at the time that I graduated (roles were different then).  It also helped that I had had real patient care experience (critical care) prior to going to school.  In retrospect, I think that we were prepared in a broad based manner even to compete with today's treatment standard/expectations.  I asked this of one of my classmates three weeks ago during dinner and he agreed that he felt that we were well prepared.  That being said, it had a lot to do with what we saw with our university hospital based setting.

[rev ronin]

3 hours ago, Eve3362 said:

I rather not get the school involved,  I just feel that the year lapse has made it difficult for me

I really wasn't asking about your preference.  If there's a school out there that is letting students graduate with this little preparation, this little understanding of medical employment, that's a problem.  As a medical professional, I have an obligation to report unsafe conditions and practices, and I think that this counts.

At this point, the school is indeed out of the picture: You're graduated, and they can't do anything TO you at this point.  They deserve to know that one of their graduates is telling such stories on a public forum; by not naming any school, you are essentially maligning all Florida programs.

At the same time, we've had a recurring problem with posters pretending to be someone they're not, and engaging in aggressive feces agitation: trolls, in common parlance.  Your post could entirely well be legitimate, or it could be one of the trolls.

Thus, YOU ARE DIRECTED to message me your school name, your name, and your contact information within the next 48 hours so I can take appropriate action based on the issues you've brought to our attention.  Failure to do so will result, rightly or wrongly, in this account being dismissed as yet another troll: Your call.

[BayPAC]

49 minutes ago, rev ronin said:

I really wasn't asking about your preference.  If there's a school out there that is letting students graduate with this little preparation, this little understanding of medical employment, that's a problem.  As a medical professional, I have an obligation to report unsafe conditions and practices, and I think that this counts.

At this point, the school is indeed out of the picture: You're graduated, and they can't do anything TO you at this point.  They deserve to know that one of their graduates is telling such stories on a public forum; by not naming any school, you are essentially maligning all Florida programs.

At the same time, we've had a recurring problem with posters pretending to be someone they're not, and engaging in aggressive feces agitation: trolls, in common parlance.  Your post could entirely well be legitimate, or it could be one of the trolls.

Thus, YOU ARE DIRECTED to message me your school name, your name, and your contact information within the next 48 hours so I can take appropriate action based on the issues you've brought to our attention.  Failure to do so will result, rightly or wrongly, in this account being dismissed as yet another troll: Your call.

Many schools out there are letting students graduate with little preparation. Mine was one of them. Maybe that's why ARC-PA is shutting down several programs; after all, that's their job. While I understand your concern (by the way, a valid one), directing people to reveal their identity to you may prevent others from freely seeking help in one of the few outlets that could be used to support new grads, at least supporting with ideas, advice, etc. 

Perhaps it would be a good idea to educate students/new grads to contact ARC-PA and express their concern. 

[MT2PA]

10 minutes ago, BayPAC said:

Many schools out there are letting students graduate with little preparation. Mine was one of them. Maybe that's why ARC-PA is shutting down several programs; after all, that's their job. While I understand your concern (by the way, a valid one), directing people to reveal their identity to you may prevent others from freely seeking help in one of the few outlets that could be used to support new grads, at least supporting with ideas, advice, etc. 

Perhaps it would be a good idea to educate students/new grads to contact ARC-PA and express their concern. 

The only standard that I could find that is close to applying to this situation is the following: 

The program curriculum must include instruction about PA licensure, credentialing, and laws and regulations regarding professional practice.

Outside of that, ARC-PA doesn't have standards to enforce regarding job applications or gaining employment (that I could find).  It's more of a common sense thing I guess...schools should want their students to successfully find positions and succeed in them - otherwise it reflects poorly on the program.  The best advertising is a successfully practicing PA.  A student could certainly attempt to contact ARC-PA with their concerns though I'm not sure to what degree they can do anything.  

[BayPAC]

8 minutes ago, MT2PA said:

The only standard that I could find that is close to applying to this situation is the following: 

The program curriculum must include instruction about PA licensure, credentialing, and laws and regulations regarding professional practice.

Outside of that, ARC-PA doesn't have standards to enforce regarding job applications or gaining employment (that I could find).  It's more of a common sense thing I guess...schools should want their students to successfully find positions and succeed in them - otherwise it reflects poorly on the program.  The best advertising is a successfully practicing PA.  A student could certainly attempt to contact ARC-PA with their concerns though I'm not sure to what degree they can do anything.  

ARC-PA  "protects the interest of the public and physician assistant profession by defining the standards for the physician assistant education and evaluating physician assistant educational programs... to ensure their compliance with those standards."

I'm assuming one of the standards would be to educate PA students on how to become a professional PA who is ready to enter the workforce after graduation. Perhaps I'm wrong but this is a basic standard for any profession/educational program. 

[EMEDPA]

yup, we had many transition to practice lectures and discussions. of course, we were all already both adults with life and medical experience....very different now with programs graduating 24 year olds with prior hce of cna or scribe x 500 hrs.

I really think pa programs should have a requirement of 5 years of post high school life experience prior to application....

[MT2PA]

Yea I think the one I quoted previously is the closest standard (licensing, credentialing, etc) - and I looked pretty closely.  I don't disagree with you I'm just not sure what ARC-PA could do regarding graduates feeling prepared or taking bad jobs.  Schools SHOULD ensure that but it doesn't seem to be something ARC evaluates.

And just to play devils advocate, we can't be sure the OPs program DIDN'T have that as part of their curriculum.  As far as we know this is an isolated incident from this program...

[rev ronin]

2 hours ago, MT2PA said:

And just to play devils advocate, we can't be sure the OPs program DIDN'T have that as part of their curriculum.  As far as we know this is an isolated incident from this program...

Agreed.  And while I really dislike taking this hard a line with such stories, I'm trying to be more transparent and public with our efforts to both BE an open, pseudonymous forum, as well as find and restrict intentional trolls.

[Guest Eve3362]

21 hours ago, rev ronin said:

I really wasn't asking about your preference.  If there's a school out there that is letting students graduate with this little preparation, this little understanding of medical employment, that's a problem.  As a medical professional, I have an obligation to report unsafe conditions and practices, and I think that this counts.

At this point, the school is indeed out of the picture: You're graduated, and they can't do anything TO you at this point.  They deserve to know that one of their graduates is telling such stories on a public forum; by not naming any school, you are essentially maligning all Florida programs.

At the same time, we've had a recurring problem with posters pretending to be someone they're not, and engaging in aggressive feces agitation: trolls, in common parlance.  Your post could entirely well be legitimate, or it could be one of the trolls.

Thus, YOU ARE DIRECTED to message me your school name, your name, and your contact information within the next 48 hours so I can take appropriate action based on the issues you've brought to our attention.  Failure to do so will result, rightly or wrongly, in this account being dismissed as yet another troll: Your call.

Everything is said was the truth,  but I'm not going to be forced into doing anything,  so if you want to cancel my account then it's your call.  I simply came here to find support and you have accused me of possible trolling and tried to bully me into doing something I don't want to do.  

[Guest Eve3362]

23 hours ago, MT2PA said:

But you do realize the school let you down?  Why so long from graduation to taking PANCE?  Why so afraid to accept a position?  The current situation you are in should have raised alarm bells long ago - it's one thing to shadow for  day to see if you like the position but quite another to essentially work for free for 2 weeks.  Your school should have explained the legality of how an SP works (i.e you can only practice under their scope of practice).

You are at a year lapse bc of a delay in PANCE (for whatever reason) and for not accepting offered positions.  Your school should have helped guide you in identifying appropriate positions for a new grad.  How to find a supporting environment.  An advisor should have been available if you wanted to discuss what kind of position might have been right for you.  Or if a residency was right for you.  Every new grad is nervous about their first job but usually students who take a year to find a job is bc they can't find one or don't want to just yet...you don't seem to fall into either of those categories.  Programs who leave their students high and dry are a disservice to the profession.

I definitely fall into the category of someone who couldn't find a job or didn't have the resources to relocate for a job and no relocation assistance was provided.  I did not take the Pance late,  I took it in october a month after graduating. I do agree that there should have been a lot more guidance and not just a PowerPoint. 

[MT2PA]

42 minutes ago, Eve3362 said:

I definitely fall into the category of someone who couldn't find a job or didn't have the resources to relocate for a job and no relocation assistance was provided.  I did not take the Pance late,  I took it in october a month after graduating. I do agree that there should have been a lot more guidance and not just a PowerPoint. 

My bad.  I misread that.  You got your license in January...but still, the majority of my graduating class had jobs lined up prior to graduating or shortly after...we were all waiting on our licenses to come through to start working.  The only ones who didn't were ones who didn't WANT to for a variety of reasons.  Plenty of them were geographically restricted as well.  And unfortunately relocation assistance isn't a guarantee or even common- my program wisely advised us to plan for this when allocating loan money during school.

This is not meant as a dig at you, OP, but a general observation (including my own classmates) but those that actually had careers prior to PA school and not just PCE jobs fared much better in the hunt for their first PA job - because it was a familiar process.  They didn't need to be guided on how to prepare a resume, apply, interview, negotiate, what to look for in benefits, etc etc.  ARC-PA doesn't have a standard for these types of things.  I think some schools do it because they recognize that the landscape of PA graduates has changed from second/third career types to new grads and this is their first 'big kid job'.  You can put some blame on the school, sure, but at the same time, you completed a professional graduate degree....gotta take some initiative.  If I sign a bad contract, it's ultimately on me, not my school.