Is it possible to work as a PA without a Master's Degree?

[UGoLong]

It's an ironic gamer tag; I have both an MDiv and a martial arts background, but no one actually calls me reverend anything, nor have they ever.

It’s just ironic to me. I often tell people it was good to be an engineer when I was young and everything in our house would break and a PA in middle age (and later) because everything in me is breaking. When asked what I should study next in old age, I would joking say divinity or emblaming.


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[CAdamsPAC]

15 hours ago, rev ronin said:

There's two ways you can go:

1) Resist and be left behind
2) Cooperate and get fleeced for the useless additional degree.

In either event, griping about the injustice and stupidity of it all is welcome here among friends and colleagues; HR departments are going to be a lot less receptive, but we all know it's a scam.

For what it's worth, degree creep is nothing new.  My "three year" master of divinity (70 credits) is a replacement for a bachelor's of divinity.  Funny thing, in academic regalia, I would still wear that hood because it's a higher degree than an MS.

No! Say eff it and retire in the next few months knowing that you provided quality care to your patients, left with your head held high and the respect of your peers.  Mental mastrubation and playing one upsmanship has never been a sport I played or enjoyed watching. Myself and many others  joined this profession long before it was "cool" and "sexy" we hustled to find jobs, accepted relatively low paying wages because we wanted to be PAs. We weren't looking for a default from med school fear or rejection, or a chance to have babies or an easy life in medicine!  We knocked on doors even kicked in a few to advance the profession, suffered more than a few body blows in the process. Advanced degrees or even degrees weren't what defined us,our ability to do the job did that! While we in many cases set the standard for PA Practice long before the plethora of PA programs demanding outrageous tuition sprung up ! I challenge anyone to demonstrate with hard data that the wave of degree mania has improved PANCE scores and the delivery of care by PAs. I remain firmly convinced this degree crap is driven by those who benefit from the money and see degrees as "proof" of professional competencies. This never ending" nurses have this and nurses have that" is in my mind like kids in the sandbox arguing. Nursing for years has cried  and whined about being subjected to physicians as a female dominated profession which wasn't respected nor in control of their own destiny! They in an attempt to take control created ," Ta DA!" Nurse Practitioners the almighty being that doesn't need "a doctor" telling them how to practice "Nursing". To put a better shine on that apple they added a bunch of letters and all was good,except for those pesky PAs and their physician leash holders barking up their  tree!! So the NP leaders & advocates say, let's tell the world the lie that we are better because, look we have a lot more letters after our names and that means we're good! Soooooooooo along comes the "leaders" of PA World who rather than extoll the clearly excellent record of clinical competence and practice due to our training in the medical model, or highlight the lesser skills and training of NPs; feel compelled to address the "Alphabet Deficit" on our lab coats!!!  Well now ,the university money men see and hear how much money is to be made in closing this "Alphabet Deficit" along with the "Academic PAs" seeing Full Professorships, appointments as Deans and Department Heads, tenure tract,bigger staffs, more talking time at faculty meetings,being listened to at  faculty meetings!!!!!!!!! OH boy look at the goodies if we jump into the war against "Alphabet Deficits"!!! They forgot that there were thousands of PAs  without the alphabet stitched across their chest to deal with! The response, let's convince them that they are not truly professional unless they assimilate into the Alphabet Collective or perish as valued competent PAs; which for a few thousand dollars  it can happen!!! So with the Alphabet Deficit eradication firmly entrenched in the PA world our erstwhile competitors strike another blow against us ,by adding the letter "D" to their armentarim in their effort to maintain Alphabet Superiority over those pesky physician subservient  PAs !! So now the PAs have launched their our Alphabet weapon in an attempt to establish an anti-NP firewall............Ta Da! behold the CQA!!!!!!!! So my fellow PA paduwans you too can be an Alphabet Deficit Warrior for the mere price of $100k give or take a thousand to join the ranks of the Third Sexiest Profession in America. It's your call, just don't call me in 2019 because the phone will no longer be in service and why would you care what some old gray haired guy with a BS degree has to say anyway?

[SLPmom]

I didn't mean to start a debate But based on these responses, am I understanding this correctly that there is a possibility that I could spend my mid 40's earning my PA-C, and still require a Doctorate at some point?? I haven't really seen any doctorate programs in my research.

[EMEDPA]

If you go to PA school you should be fine with a masters. The doctorate will likely gradually be phased in over the next 20 years, but those with other degrees would be able to continue working under grandfather clauses. I'm sure there are cert level PAs out there still working today, just not a lot. There are currently no entry level doctoral programs, but there are a handful of postgrad doctoral options tailored specifically to PAs. As I said earlier in this thread, I expect the first entry level PA doctorate within 3-5 years(if not sooner). it took 20 years to go from mostly BS programs to mostly ms programs. it will take another 20 to go to mostly doctorates. when I went to PA school in the early 90s there were 52 PA programs. 2 offered an MS. now there are something like 255 active or in the works and most offer an MS. 

[ravenspac]

Currently a PA with two bachelors degrees. Zero masters. 

 

If your asking can you practice as a PA without a Masters... its state specific but yes.  There are very few non masters programs left but they do exist. I went to one... I do not recommend it.

If your asking can you take a Master's program later yes.

 

If your asking can you work full time in another health care profession that requires a bachelors...and go to PA school concurrently?....Well basically No. Classroom hours were M-F 8-4...not including Cadaver lab or studying. You cant skip class. You cant "just get by" in PA school. You cant not study as a part time job

[lemurcatta]

On 9/10/2018 at 9:48 PM, CAdamsPAC said:

"None of this says anything about the competency of clinicians" so you are all for window dressing? It's a sad state that academic degrees are the "Brass Ring" on this ride with clinical competency maybe a runner up! IMHO it's nothing more than the universities milking the PA aspirant! Graduate level tuition brings in the cash and the programs that bring in the cash become big dogs on campus!!

I totally get what you are saying, but in our current society I’d argue that it would actually be a sadder state of affairs if a PA aspirant with a bachelors degree (aka all contemporary PA applicants) got nothing more than a certificate for doing 2-2.5 years of additional education at a graduate level. It would hamstring them when looking for jobs when competing against NPs with MSNs and DNPs, and a requirement for an MS doesn’t mean that graduates are any less well off then in old school models. 

[CAdamsPAC]

On 9/12/2018 at 4:08 PM, lemurcatta said:

I totally get what you are saying, but in our current society I’d argue that it would actually be a sadder state of affairs if a PA aspirant with a bachelors degree (aka all contemporary PA applicants) got nothing more than a certificate for doing 2-2.5 years of additional education at a graduate level. It would hamstring them when looking for jobs when competing against NPs with MSNs and DNPs, and a requirement for an MS doesn’t mean that graduates are any less well off then in old school models. 

Everyone get's  a trophy................

[EMSGuy1982]

Sad to announce that MEDEX northwest (University of Washington), where I graduated from was the only remaining Bachelors degree program left on the west coast and fought against the push for masters only option has stopped their bachelors option as of last year. I practice medicine everyday with a bachelors and see the same patients my fellow PA’s with masters degrees and I don’t feel incompetent. It’s a shame since I believe some folks who are considering our profession after a long stent in another career ( I made the decision on becoming a PA after 13 years in EMS) who might become great PA’s would see returning for a masters program more daunting. 

[CAdamsPAC]

12 hours ago, EMSGuy1982 said:

Sad to announce that MEDEX northwest (University of Washington), where I graduated from was the only remaining Bachelors degree program left on the west coast and fought against the push for masters only option has stopped their bachelors option as of last year. I practice medicine everyday with a bachelors and see the same patients my fellow PA’s with masters degrees and I don’t feel incompetent. It’s a shame since I believe some folks who are considering our profession after a long stent in another career ( I made the decision on becoming a PA after 13 years in EMS) who might become great PA’s would see returning for a masters program more daunting. 

MEDEX Class XIX graduated with a previously held AS went on to complete my BS held a Yale School of Medicine academic position as a Lecturer in Medicine for a few years, even precepted Yale and other PA students without a masters but alas I'd be noncompetitive in the Academic Credential Pi**ing Contest of the PA world.............2019 and retirement here I come!!!