How far will PA wages fall in the future?

[Joelseff]

Well, my sister is a Physical therapist, and I can say that figure is way off. According the the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, that's the average salary of a PT assistant. The average for a DPT is around 70K/year and my sister is making closer to 90k/year with 4 years experience.

 

 

And what field does a PA make greater than 150K!?!?!?! Other than a CT surgery PA who is has years of experience and is busting his hump all week, every week. EM, a highly paid specialty, can only hope to earn in the 120s with years (if not decades) of experience.

 

Since we are throwing anecdotal info, i must add, it depends on area. I have 4-5 classmates in EM who are 1 year out of school who made 114k as new grads. Of course, this might be augmented by bonuses, shift diff etc. But 120k in the bay area calif. Is not unheard of. In the central calley, they pay even more i believe.

 

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[Joelseff]

Well, my sister is a Physical therapist, and I can say that figure is way off. According the the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, that's the average salary of a PT assistant. The average for a DPT is around 70K/year and my sister is making closer to 90k/year with 4 years experience.

 

 

And what field does a PA make greater than 150K!?!?!?! Other than a CT surgery PA who is has years of experience and is busting his hump all week, every week. EM, a highly paid specialty, can only hope to earn in the 120s with years (if not decades) of experience.

 

Since we are throwing anecdotal info, i must add, it depends on area. I have 4-5 classmates in EM who are 1 year out of school who made 114k as new grads. Of course, this might be augmented by bonuses, shift diff etc. But 120k in the bay area calif. Is not unheard of. In the central calley, they pay even more i believe.

 

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[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Since we are throwing anecdotal info, i must add, it depends on area. I have 4-5 classmates in EM who are 1 year out of school who made 114k as new grads. Of course, this might be augmented by bonuses, shift diff etc. But 120k in the bay area calif. Is not unheard of. In the central calley, they pay even more i believe.

 

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I just threw in my sister to augment the factual data given by the bureau of labor, since they do not list salaries for years of experience.

 

As far as PA salaries, I believe rarely PA can approach or match 150 in specialties, but exceed as if it's common? I would want data to back that up before I believe it.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Since we are throwing anecdotal info, i must add, it depends on area. I have 4-5 classmates in EM who are 1 year out of school who made 114k as new grads. Of course, this might be augmented by bonuses, shift diff etc. But 120k in the bay area calif. Is not unheard of. In the central calley, they pay even more i believe.

 

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I just threw in my sister to augment the factual data given by the bureau of labor, since they do not list salaries for years of experience.

 

As far as PA salaries, I believe rarely PA can approach or match 150 in specialties, but exceed as if it's common? I would want data to back that up before I believe it.

[Joelseff]

I just threw in my sister to augment the factual data given by the bureau of labor, since they do not list salaries for years of experience.

 

As far as PA salaries, I believe rarely PA can approach or match 150 in specialties, but exceed as if it's common? I would want data to back that up before I believe it.

 

Oh no, totally understand. Anecdotal info gives, it seems to me anyway, a better gauge of salary in a given area. As long as the one providing the info refrains from embelishment. And I agree with your second notion that a PA cannot match a specialist Physician pay, no way on God's green earth. Specialists Physicians (Depending on specialty but generally) make way more than 150K in my area and Specialist PAs make near that with bonuses etc. So in my area, I would say that statement holds weight.

 

Cheers.

[Joelseff]

I just threw in my sister to augment the factual data given by the bureau of labor, since they do not list salaries for years of experience.

 

As far as PA salaries, I believe rarely PA can approach or match 150 in specialties, but exceed as if it's common? I would want data to back that up before I believe it.

 

Oh no, totally understand. Anecdotal info gives, it seems to me anyway, a better gauge of salary in a given area. As long as the one providing the info refrains from embelishment. And I agree with your second notion that a PA cannot match a specialist Physician pay, no way on God's green earth. Specialists Physicians (Depending on specialty but generally) make way more than 150K in my area and Specialist PAs make near that with bonuses etc. So in my area, I would say that statement holds weight.

 

Cheers.

[andersenpa]

Specialty PAs definitely can make that much and more

But they won't make as much as the docs in their specialty outside of extreme outliers where they might get close

[andersenpa]

Specialty PAs definitely can make that much and more

But they won't make as much as the docs in their specialty outside of extreme outliers where they might get close

[PAstudentCanada]

CAPA (Canadian Association of PAs) released a newsletter today in which it was written "There are currently upwards of 350 PAs working in Canada. PAs are practicing throughout Canada and abroad in the Canadian Forces and in the public health care system in Manitoba, Ontario and New Brunswick. Currently, the average pay for PAs in Canada is between $75,000-$120,000/annum, which is comparative with salaries in the US."

 

Yeah, you're right. There is not much factual evidence supporting my claim, and is probably unlikely. I really just was just using numbers to provide an example. I was actually just in RBC the other day getting my professional student line of credit finalized. I think they are the only bank in Canada that recognizes a Physician Assistant. They would provide 60,000 in credit without a cosigner... the reason? Well I am sure it is a big equation, but when it came down to it, they had a salary tagged to PA's of $65,000. So, my numbers are a little factual based on that evidence, although the resource lacks depth of knowledge. I was dumfounded by that figure. THe UofM website says 80-100,000 salary. Every university that I have seen inflates the projected salaries.. for attraction purposes. UofM can probably do that because PA's do make salaries in that range. What about those that don't? are they included? Does that 90,000 in Manitoba contain all practicing PA's in Manitoba - is it an average? I'm not being defensive, I really just want to know. Because for years I have been under the impression that Canadian PA's make considerably lower than US PA's.

[PAstudentCanada]

CAPA (Canadian Association of PAs) released a newsletter today in which it was written "There are currently upwards of 350 PAs working in Canada. PAs are practicing throughout Canada and abroad in the Canadian Forces and in the public health care system in Manitoba, Ontario and New Brunswick. Currently, the average pay for PAs in Canada is between $75,000-$120,000/annum, which is comparative with salaries in the US."

 

Yeah, you're right. There is not much factual evidence supporting my claim, and is probably unlikely. I really just was just using numbers to provide an example. I was actually just in RBC the other day getting my professional student line of credit finalized. I think they are the only bank in Canada that recognizes a Physician Assistant. They would provide 60,000 in credit without a cosigner... the reason? Well I am sure it is a big equation, but when it came down to it, they had a salary tagged to PA's of $65,000. So, my numbers are a little factual based on that evidence, although the resource lacks depth of knowledge. I was dumfounded by that figure. THe UofM website says 80-100,000 salary. Every university that I have seen inflates the projected salaries.. for attraction purposes. UofM can probably do that because PA's do make salaries in that range. What about those that don't? are they included? Does that 90,000 in Manitoba contain all practicing PA's in Manitoba - is it an average? I'm not being defensive, I really just want to know. Because for years I have been under the impression that Canadian PA's make considerably lower than US PA's.

[jdtpac]

I have seen some of the worst data ever coming from payscale.com - I don't know where they get their data but they tend to have just about zero connection to reality.... sorry but ifyou are going to quote some data source you need to research more about the data....

 

I started my research searching various websites trying to come up with reliable information on comparing differences in Masters degree salaries in all professions versus PA's and remarkably came across an article on Forbes.com which directly quoted Payscales.com http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/19/best-masters-degrees-jobs-leadership-careers-education.html

 

I thought the article did a great job of promoting the PA profession. I got the table from another article that also quoted payscales.com and read other articles that also quoted that website. If you think I was traveling down the wrong Internet highway, do you have any suggestions of websites I might look at to get more reliable data next time I searched the web

[jdtpac]

I have seen some of the worst data ever coming from payscale.com - I don't know where they get their data but they tend to have just about zero connection to reality.... sorry but ifyou are going to quote some data source you need to research more about the data....

 

I started my research searching various websites trying to come up with reliable information on comparing differences in Masters degree salaries in all professions versus PA's and remarkably came across an article on Forbes.com which directly quoted Payscales.com http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/19/best-masters-degrees-jobs-leadership-careers-education.html

 

I thought the article did a great job of promoting the PA profession. I got the table from another article that also quoted payscales.com and read other articles that also quoted that website. If you think I was traveling down the wrong Internet highway, do you have any suggestions of websites I might look at to get more reliable data next time I searched the web

[Walkoffshot]

just wondering if we are talking $usd to $usd. im unfamiliar with all that... could you educate me, PAstudentCanada?

 

Im going to assume that is $can. Regardless, the dollar has been hovering around par for the last year or so, so you could probably equate both as being very close to the same.

[Walkoffshot]

just wondering if we are talking $usd to $usd. im unfamiliar with all that... could you educate me, PAstudentCanada?

 

Im going to assume that is $can. Regardless, the dollar has been hovering around par for the last year or so, so you could probably equate both as being very close to the same.

[jdtpac]

I have never heard of PAs entering a field and making the same as physicians in that specialty. The closest thing to it may be primary care, occ med (maybe peds?) where the gap is less. But.... entry level salaries equating physicians in the same field? This is certainly not the case in specialty (any board with a fellowship) or surgery.

 

The future is bright but those (hard to believe) numbers are blinding.

andersenpa,

The average starting salary of the physician in emergency medicine is between $160 -180 per year (or approximately $80-$90 per hour). I know of ER groups in the North Central states area that are currently giving their PAs with less than 5-10 years experience upwards of $75 per hour. The shortage in both physician and physician assistants for that field is driving the market upward. There are specialties like dermatology and psychiatry in a similar situations. I think it was Advances that reported PAs in psychiatry are now making $80+ per hour. So incomes are changing but I don't think there being reported accurately by individuals or employers so the data collection agencies may not be putting out totally reliable information. Someone mentioned in one of the posts that antecdotal information is sometimes more reliable as long as it's not embellish and I totally agree with that. you know Mark Twain one said" there are lies, damn lies and statistics". I always found the best market surveys were conducted by either calling up colleagues or taking him out to dinner and you most often will get an honest answer as to what PAs in their group are being compensated,but we will never find them or their employer giving those figures out publicly.

[jdtpac]

I have never heard of PAs entering a field and making the same as physicians in that specialty. The closest thing to it may be primary care, occ med (maybe peds?) where the gap is less. But.... entry level salaries equating physicians in the same field? This is certainly not the case in specialty (any board with a fellowship) or surgery.

 

The future is bright but those (hard to believe) numbers are blinding.

andersenpa,

The average starting salary of the physician in emergency medicine is between $160 -180 per year (or approximately $80-$90 per hour). I know of ER groups in the North Central states area that are currently giving their PAs with less than 5-10 years experience upwards of $75 per hour. The shortage in both physician and physician assistants for that field is driving the market upward. There are specialties like dermatology and psychiatry in a similar situations. I think it was Advances that reported PAs in psychiatry are now making $80+ per hour. So incomes are changing but I don't think there being reported accurately by individuals or employers so the data collection agencies may not be putting out totally reliable information. Someone mentioned in one of the posts that antecdotal information is sometimes more reliable as long as it's not embellish and I totally agree with that. you know Mark Twain one said" there are lies, damn lies and statistics". I always found the best market surveys were conducted by either calling up colleagues or taking him out to dinner and you most often will get an honest answer as to what PAs in their group are being compensated,but we will never find them or their employer giving those figures out publicly.

[physasst]

as for a 5-4 decision that physasst mentioned as being a slam dunk... good luck with that. if you take comfort in that, then you definately are a glass is half full person. nobody knows where its headed, and whoever says they do is kidding themself. besides, even if it were to hold, it the system will collapse under its own weight well before then. we are greece, just not enough people know it yet. you cant spend 1.5 trillion more each year beyond what you take in and keep going as is.

 

Umm, I don't know that I ever said slam dunk...As far as the rest of this, you can't honestly be comparing us to Greece??? Are you? Deficit spending only matters over the long run. We ran up even bigger deficits during WWII, but our economy grew so fast afterwards that they didn't matter.

 

We have the largest, most robust economy in the world. We still lead the world in exports, and have the strongest economy of anyone....

 

Greece was going to default no matter what happened. They were on this path for decades. The recession only sped it up. Comparing the US economy to Greece is possibly the most absurd thing I hear.

 

Deficits don't matter to the degree that some would want you to believe. In fact, the thing that probably drives me more crazy than anything else, is this fixation on comparing macro economic problems using micro economic principles. it does not work, it is a fool's game. "I cannot manage my business like the US Government or I would be broke", true, but the government shouldn't manage their economy like your business either.

 

It's like quantum mechanics and the general theory in physics. They both explain either the really big, or the really small perfectly. But they DO NOT explain each other. Same with Macro and Micro economics. I wish they did. Micro economic theories are more tidy and work better than macro economic ones.

 

http://www.angrybearblog.com/2012/02/why-government-must-keep-running.html

 

Now, Steve is right, but not in the way that he thinks.....

[physasst]

as for a 5-4 decision that physasst mentioned as being a slam dunk... good luck with that. if you take comfort in that, then you definately are a glass is half full person. nobody knows where its headed, and whoever says they do is kidding themself. besides, even if it were to hold, it the system will collapse under its own weight well before then. we are greece, just not enough people know it yet. you cant spend 1.5 trillion more each year beyond what you take in and keep going as is.

 

Umm, I don't know that I ever said slam dunk...As far as the rest of this, you can't honestly be comparing us to Greece??? Are you? Deficit spending only matters over the long run. We ran up even bigger deficits during WWII, but our economy grew so fast afterwards that they didn't matter.

 

We have the largest, most robust economy in the world. We still lead the world in exports, and have the strongest economy of anyone....

 

Greece was going to default no matter what happened. They were on this path for decades. The recession only sped it up. Comparing the US economy to Greece is possibly the most absurd thing I hear.

 

Deficits don't matter to the degree that some would want you to believe. In fact, the thing that probably drives me more crazy than anything else, is this fixation on comparing macro economic problems using micro economic principles. it does not work, it is a fool's game. "I cannot manage my business like the US Government or I would be broke", true, but the government shouldn't manage their economy like your business either.

 

It's like quantum mechanics and the general theory in physics. They both explain either the really big, or the really small perfectly. But they DO NOT explain each other. Same with Macro and Micro economics. I wish they did. Micro economic theories are more tidy and work better than macro economic ones.

 

http://www.angrybearblog.com/2012/02/why-government-must-keep-running.html

 

Now, Steve is right, but not in the way that he thinks.....

[EMEDPA]

We have the largest, most robust economy in the world. We still lead the world in exports, and have the strongest economy of anyone....

.

until China takes over the #1 spot in 2 years...they already have the #1 car market in the world since 2009. in 2014 they become the world's largest importer of foreign goods....

[EMEDPA]

We have the largest, most robust economy in the world. We still lead the world in exports, and have the strongest economy of anyone....

.

until China takes over the #1 spot in 2 years...they already have the #1 car market in the world since 2009. in 2014 they become the world's largest importer of foreign goods....

[physasst]

until China takes over the #1 spot in 2 years...they already have the #1 car market in the world since 2009. in 2014 they become the world's largest importer of foreign goods....

 

that has nothing to do with our debt. Also, China is headed for a massive slow down. The middle class is rising, wages are starting to stagnate, and growth has already fallen by 5% since the fall. I don't think, based on current markers that there is any evidence that they will take over our spot in two years. China has a host of economic problems of it's own....including inflation above targets.

[physasst]

until China takes over the #1 spot in 2 years...they already have the #1 car market in the world since 2009. in 2014 they become the world's largest importer of foreign goods....

 

that has nothing to do with our debt. Also, China is headed for a massive slow down. The middle class is rising, wages are starting to stagnate, and growth has already fallen by 5% since the fall. I don't think, based on current markers that there is any evidence that they will take over our spot in two years. China has a host of economic problems of it's own....including inflation above targets.

[EMEDPA]

Is China poised to surpass the United States to become the world’s largest economy? The International Monetary Fund recently predicted that the size of China’s economy would overtake that of the U.S. in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) by 2016. But a recent co-authored study by Robert Feenstra, an economist at the University of California, Davis, shows that global economic leadership would pass to China in 2014. And, even more radically, Arvind Subramanian of the Peterson Institute of International Economics argues that China actually surpassed the U.S. in PPP terms in 2010.

source: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/02/when-will-china%E2%80%99s-economy-overtake-america%E2%80%99s/

[EMEDPA]

Is China poised to surpass the United States to become the world’s largest economy? The International Monetary Fund recently predicted that the size of China’s economy would overtake that of the U.S. in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) by 2016. But a recent co-authored study by Robert Feenstra, an economist at the University of California, Davis, shows that global economic leadership would pass to China in 2014. And, even more radically, Arvind Subramanian of the Peterson Institute of International Economics argues that China actually surpassed the U.S. in PPP terms in 2010.

source: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/02/when-will-china%E2%80%99s-economy-overtake-america%E2%80%99s/

[physasst]

Is China poised to surpass the United States to become the world’s largest economy? The International Monetary Fund recently predicted that the size of China’s economy would overtake that of the U.S. in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) by 2016. But a recent co-authored study by Robert Feenstra, an economist at the University of California, Davis, shows that global economic leadership would pass to China in 2014. And, even more radically, Arvind Subramanian of the Peterson Institute of International Economics argues that China actually surpassed the U.S. in PPP terms in 2010.

source: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/02/when-will-china’s-economy-overtake-america’s/

 

From your article:

 

But China would surpass the U.S. in a relatively short period of time even if we measured both countries’ economies in nominal terms. Assuming that the Chinese and U.S. economies grow, respectively, by 8% and 3% in real terms, that China’s inflation rate is 3.6% and America’s is 2% (the averages of the last decade), and that the renminbi appreciates against the dollar by 3% per year (the average of the last six years), China would become the world’s largest economy by 2021. By that time, both countries’ GDP will be about $24 trillion, perhaps triple the size of the third largest economy, either Japan or Germany.

 

This is more along the lines of other projections I have seen...Also, that was written last June. A lot has already changed. Chine isn't going to see 8% growth now. At least not at the moment.