ItRainsItPours Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 What made you decide to pursue PA instead of an MD/DO? I'm currently pre-med but seriously considering switching to pre-pa. I'm not sure if a minimum of 7 years of post college education is right for me since I'd like to travel and have many non-academic interests (amateur film making, gigging musician, etc). I've dreaded the end of college because it always equated the end of my outside interests as I focus on medical school and residency. PA seems like a good compromise; stable career with more time afforded to pursue my other interests. My issue is that I'm a type A personality. I was born to lead, I've felt this way for a long time. I'm concerned that 10-15 years down the road I'll regret not pursuing the MD and having a career of following orders. I'm concerned that 10-15 years down the road I'll regret HAVING pursued the MD and consequently spending my youth in various hospitals and not experiencing the rest of the world. I'm only a sophmore so I have time to decide but I just can't make up my mind ATM. I also come from a family of doctors. My mother is an Internist and her father was a GP back in the day. I know this sounds really vain but it makes me uncomfortable thinking about going in another direction in the medical field. But I suppose this should be the least of my worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneValgene Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 follow through with med school :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItRainsItPours Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 a lot of folks who state that they are born to lead haven't done so in any significant capacity. many of them like the idea of leadership... which is an impression they get from their observations of others who make it look 1)easy, or 2) like there isnt more to it that goes on in the background. also keep in mind that unless you are in a situation where you can command respect from your subordinates or teamates, you have to put in the hard work to earn it. even if you can command others and have them comply, if you aren't a good leader, you arent going to get as far as you could. as a doctor, you may think you will be the bomb, but the radius of your authority really extends about how far? so you lead a few MA's, and a few nurses (if they let you), then what. what you will find is that being a leader really is reduced to trying to convince others to follow your instructions. and if you go the MD route, how long do you think it will be before you are a "leader" in the sense that your parents are? you spend medical school being a follower. you spend residency being a follower. you go into practice as the newer guy. eventually you hit that point where most of your bills are being paid and you can tell a room waiting for a code to roll in to quiet down. yippee. at that point who cares, because you have all the responsibility of the world on your shoulders, and leadership is just a tool for you to use to solve the big problem in front of you. and there you go.... leadership isnt an end in and of itself, it allows you to accomplish difficult things. you can have that as a PA if you want it. i would rather do the job that i want to do and live the private life that i want to rather than go through medical school and residency. but if you asked me when i was 20, i would have thought that being top dog meant everything. i persoally think that anyone worried about the title or that have concerns they will regret not going for MD should just go to school to be an MD. they can get that out of thier system with no harm done. either you realize its worth the price and are glad, or it isnt, and you quit. but at least at some point you know it for yourself. Really insightful post. I'm pretty speechless tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 6, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2012 Keep in mind that most docs(with the exception of surgeons) work a lot fewer hours than the pa's they work with. Docs in my group for example avg around 120-130 hrs/mo. Pa's work 180. The lifestyle longterm is on the side off the docs. More money, more free time. Go to med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItRainsItPours Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 That's interesting EMEDPA I always thought that PA's worked fewer hours. Not to sound like a creep but I'm actually familiar with you SDN and have seen that you are very active and a huge proponent of PA matters in general. You're the last person I'd have expected to suggest MD, why do you feel that way? I'm 20 if anyone was wondering so I'm not non-trad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 On the flip side of what EMEDPA said, my primary pathologist that I work with(and I realize PAs don't work in pathology to any large degree) sleeps 3 hrs a night and works 12-16 hr days...every day...including at least one weekend day. Other pathos are similar. I think docs do have the opportunity to work a lot less hours but that is not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I was born to lead, I've felt this way for a long time. I'm concerned that 10-15 years down the road I'll regret not pursuing the MD and having a career of following orders. Hey, My first response is.... "HAHAHAHAH! BORN TO LEAD? FELT THIS WAY HIS WHOLE LIFE? LOL?! I bet this guy couldn't get a leadership position in an online mass multiplayer game with that cheesy line!" 90% of young adults your age think exactly like you. I hope to share some things that might encourage you to reconsider how you feel. 1) You're worried about ~7 years post college education? Give me an offer for medical school and I'd be on that bandwagon right away. For me, it's a chance at a better life. It's a chance to show people everything I got and to prove to them that I am capable, that I am intelligent, and that I have the desire it takes to succeed in any given environment - even medical school. 7 years is nothing. I'd do it, yeah, in a heartbeat. You think it's such a long time, but everyone at your age feels that way. I know I certainly did. A lot of people go into a MA or MS after their undergraduate and still are a loss as to what to do, or where they can get a decent job. Sometimes, at that point they start looking for alternatives... which means more schooling. Once you reach that point, or you know people who are in that position... trust me, 7 years isn't a crazy commitment. I'd be one of the most confident and comforting decisions I'd make, but that's just me... Some people enlist for 4-6 years just to be able to go start a bachelors degree with their GI bill... 2) If you're a leader, you know it. I know that I am, but it isn't the most fantastic thing. It's not really about being in charge or telling people what to do, for me anyways. When I was a leader, I was responsible for my team. The decisions I made could greatly affect them. It's a lot of pressure for one person, even if that person is confident, competent and good under pressure. It doesn't really matter - every person has their breaking point. That responsibility to look after others is a powerful thing. If you feel you have the right qualities, I would definitely encourage you to get involved with something were you can really prove that. If you already have, then my bad, you didn't mention it. But if you want to be an MD because you're "born to lead", then that seems a bit silly... For me, it was a combination of things. I was willing to take responsibility. I had a great affection for my team and I was quick and sharp, I could analyze the options and make the best decision quickly. It wasn't about me being in charge, it was never about that... It was about my team, I cared for them and I knew that it was that teamwork was the reason for our success. That is enabled me to be a good leader. What makes you a good leader? 3) Your parents are docs? Great! Talk to them... see how they feel about it. Talk to their friends or co-workers (who might be PAs). You have all the resources in the world right at your fingertips... Me? I'm a first generation college student... My parents cannot speak english fluently. We've lived near poverty level for most of our lives. My parents have worked hard to enable myself, and my brothers and sisters to go to school. Whether you realize it or not, there is a lot that you have access to and that you can do which I cannot. I encourage you to make use of all your resources... Make the most of everything you've have. Good luck... hope it was helpful and that it wasn't offensive. There are a lot of people in your boat - a lot of people who don't know what to do or where to go. Make the best of everything you've got. Try to figure out WHY you're doing it. That helps a lot, but it's not easy to figure out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Lots of good comments in this thread. I'll add just a couple more thoughts. I'm not sure if a minimum of 7 years of post college education is right for me since I'd like to travel and have many non-academic interests (amateur film making, gigging musician, etc). I've dreaded the end of college because it always equated the end of my outside interests as I focus on medical school and residency. Keep in mind that residency, though a lot of work, is certainly not "education" in the traditional sense of college education. You'll be getting paid and won't be spending most of your time in lecture halls and labs. Even the second half of medical school will be almost if not completely in the hospital. My other comment is about outside interests and medical school. Yes, you will be very busy studying during medical school. This doesn't mean that you need to completely stop living though. Will you have tons of time to spend making films? No. But if you manage your time effectively, could you spend a few hours a week on this? Certainly. Will you be able to be playing music down at the pub every night? No. But can you still find time to practice and perform? Definitely. Can you roam the world freely with no real world constraints on the length of your trip? No. But will you have some breaks where you can travel or opportunities for international electives? Absolutely. It isn't easy, but you're still alive during school. Don't forget that or let anyone tell you otherwise. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you are a born leader then you can just delegate other people to travel for you and make your films while you are in med school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'll volunteer to do your traveling for you... I am glad I can help you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not going to chime in on PA vs MD as I think that is a personal choice YOU need to make. But, I will comment on pre-med vs pre-PA since that decision is more of a "now" one. My university doesn't have a pre-med major (and they sure as heck don't have pre-PA). Instead, they list the classes that you would need to take to go to med school. Several majors like chemistry and microbiology cover these classes. One of my degrees is in microbiology so I've taken the O chem series, physics, all those fun things that aren't generally req'd as pre-reqs for PAs. And yet, I applied to PA school. My point? What does it really matter if you're labelled pre-med or pre-PA during your undergrad? Do you really think a PA adcom is going to think, "Oh, pre-med major rather than pre-PA. Rejected!" That's silly. Get the best, most complete education you can that way you aren't held back later. Though the courses weren't required by my PA program, I'm very grateful that I have at least a decent background in all of the sciences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Like l.a.lewis said, PA vs MD is a personal choice on you. I thinks there's a fallacy in the thought that all PAs encounter the PA vs MD debacle. And then, there's the fallacy that if they choose PA, they'll have all the time in the world outside of work to enjoy life, climb mt. everest, swim the english channel, etc. Truth is, I know both PAs and MDs that are swamped with work, and I know PAs/MDs that take vacay's every month and travel. And to think that as a PA you'll be stuck as a "non leader" in your words and taking orders all over the place is again, not entirely true. I'm one of the lucky one's that never struggled with the PA v MD situation. Once I met my first PA and learned the history of the profession, I was sold and haven't looked back. The true question is, do you have HCE? Do you know that you want to work in medicine for the rest of your life? Just because your family is in medicine, have you done a gut check and made sure that its the path for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 6, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2012 That's interesting EMEDPA I always thought that PA's worked fewer hours. Not to sound like a creep but I'm actually familiar with you SDN and have seen that you are very active and a huge proponent of PA matters in general. You're the last person I'd have expected to suggest MD, why do you feel that way? I'm 20 if anyone was wondering so I'm not non-trad. PA is a great option for the older paramedic, rn, rt, etc wanting to increase their scope of practice. for someone in college thinking about medicine with no prior experience MD/DO should be the goal. it has taken me DECADES to achieve a position with a reasonable scope of practice and autonomy. a new doc day 1 out of residency gets a better scope, more autonomy, and more respect than I get today(not to mention twice the salary for 2/3 the work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 My issue is that I'm a type A personality. Everyone in my class is Type A, with like 3 notable exceptions. Med school doesn't have a monopoly on the Type A's in this world, and part of being at (my) PA school is learning how to manage your own insanity. Out of control Type A's in any profession are *******s, so either way you go you'll need to learn to handle it. :) You won't have more time to pursue your interests in PA school, or beyond, than you would in med school and as an MD/DO. My class is constantly "noticing" how the med students get to go home at noon after a single 1-hour lecture (we're there from 8-5, every day), only have one test every couple weeks (we have 1-2 PER WEEK), and don't have to go to class if their little bodies don't feel like it (attendance is mandatory at all lectures for us). I'm sure not every school is like this, but I think it speaks to my point about extra time in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There are several reasons to do PA over MD, but they have to be reasons you find sufficient, and it really depends on the values you have. Be weary about the answers you get from current PA's and MD's. I have MD's tell me that they would go the PA route if they were in my shoes, and I have PA's that would go the MD route. There's always someone who regrets something about their choice and has a "grass greener on the other side" mind-set. As far as hours, they range for PAs as they do for MD's. I know PAs that work part-time and PAs that work full time+. I know one PA that doesn't work Fridays or weekends and is out of work by 3pm on Thursaday, and he makes a six-figure income. He loved his specialty, and he likes the life-style. As a PA, you'll have OPTIONS. As far as the "I don't want to be taking orders yadadada," that's a common response I get from people who harp on me being a PA student at such a young age (21). Think of it this way: the scope of an MD's authority really isn't that far. You're not really giving orders to your lackies in order to get work done, and if you believe otherwise you better shadow more. Same with PA's, you don't just bark orders to nurses, nor do you get leashed by physicians (well, depends on the physician). You can be working with minimal interference from a physician, but you'll always have that physician as a back-up. I wouldn't consider this a big issue unless you feel you'll have a massive inferiority complex as a PA. PA school is much more rigorous than Med-school. I've hardly heard any PA student say otherwise (from solid programs). You essentially get the meat and potatoes of med school compressed into ~two years (three at some programs). In that time you essentially learn medicine and have to hit the ground running. No residency, no intern, just practicing. On the bright side, you'll be practicing medicine in half the time! Money isn't everything, and I feel like people miss that. Yes, realistically doctors will make more on average than PAs. But, there are specialty PAs making more than most doctors. Additionally, the hours can be a bit more flexible depending on your field and area. PAs are in such high demand that it's not "if" you get a job it's "what job do you want?" TL;DR: The choice to be a PA must come for a reason that YOU understand. I feel like you don't understand PA enough to make the decision, so GET SHADOWING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To the OP... Have you considered doing overseas work in the medical field? Imagine for a moment, there you are, on the African safari in a remote medical village surrounded by people who are grateful for any medicine you can offer them. You can make documentary after documentary of just about any aspect of their lives. During the day you perform the art of medicine, in the evening you exchange the art of music with the locals. They teach you their native instruments, you teach them yours. At that medical clinic, you, as a physician, would have a staff of folks with all the same goal in mind (giving care) but you can have that leadership role that you crave. During your journey to and from Africa, you can stack on a few weeks of travel time to hitchhike around the country filming the wonders of The Dark Continent. After your return from Africa and refill the bank account a bit with some locum (per diem) work as a stateside doctor, it's off to the Himilayian trekking routes to provide medical support during the tourist season. You, with your camera in hand, working at 15,000 feet elevation treating people from all over the world as they come into the wonderment that envelops that region. Perhaps you can land some work at Medcor's Everest Base Camp medical clinic. As the monsoon season rolls through in early summer it's back to the US, work a bit, then head down to South America. The pictures and stories coming out of Colombia are amazing. Yes, all of these regions do have some security risk to them. That adds a little spice and the media often over inflates things (or under reports...it's a gamble really) but imagine the adventure. As a PA, you will have to struggle much, much, much harder to find a niche to insert yourself into these experiences. Some, such as the trekking routes, are closed to all providers but MD/DOs. As a doctor, you have such an easier time writing your own ticket. http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org http://www.wms.org http://www.remotemedical.com http://www.medcor.com these are just a few of the bazillion opportunities that physicians have to travel, live an adventure, which opens up your hobbies of film making. Your music can travel in your heart. There is no better way to win the hearts of locals than to share music. Tuck a travel guitar, mandolin, ukulele, flute..whatever your gig is, into a travel bag and go. So you're worried about 7 years of post grad work. Do you remember ages 10-17? Looking back at it, does it seem that long ago, but you feel so removed from that time in your life now, don't you? Did it seem like forever when it was happening? You won't be locked up in some fluorescent lit lecture hall listening to Professor Droopy Pants drone on for 7 years. You'll bang out a couple of intense years of nose buried in the books but then you get to start seeing patients. Then you'll see more patients. Your leadership skills can shine as a cohort to your classmates, helping them understand some nuance that you have dialed and then you can turn around and show humility while some classmate helps you understand something. Pretty soon you'll be a resident (year 5 of the 7) and guess what? You'll have interns to guide...to lead. You'll have the opportunity once again to show and experience leadership skills. Year 6 and 7 are even more opportunities to lead and to be led. The graduation and off to Applachia to work in some small coal mining town, getting your loans paid off a bit through government incentive programs, while learning bluegrass music and making a film documentary highlighting the plight of medical care access right here in the US of A. BAM!...goals reached and you haven't even turned 30 yet. What the heck are you going to do with next 35 years of life experience? My point? The opportunities that a MD/DO have in this world are FAR beyond those of a PA. If your hang up is 7 years of some pretty freaking fun educational processes then you are beyond hope. Why didn't I go to Med school? I was in the Navy for ten years, then I got a job as a paramedic/firefighter. When I was a firefighter we could do shift trades..I took a month off every summer and a month off every winter, without losing pay, for five years. I worked another 5 years on a more traditional schedule before I finally decided it's time to up my education. Then we started having kids. I'm 39 now...I too want to travel the world and take my kids on grand adventures. My kids are ages 8 and 5. By the time I could get through med school training from right now, they would be leaving the house and my chance to take them on such adventures in their childhood will be past. The world is your oyster. Don't let it spoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItRainsItPours Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I really appreciate all the insight and constructive comments I got on this thread. Just Steve your last comment was especially thoughtful. After doing some thinking I've decided that the PA profession is a better for my goals, professional and personal. so now I need to start getting some real HCE and not just running bed pans in hospitals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 PA school is much more rigorous than Med-school. I've hardly heard any PA student say otherwise (from solid programs). Most PAs haven't attended medical school so it will be difficult for them to be a judge of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well I'm glad I could help :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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