PA Career

[EdibleStrawberry]

Hi all,

 

I am a new member so please forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong section. I am interested in the PA profession, and am trying to gain some insight. Trying to find a PA to shadow has been difficult, and from others' experiences, the PA that you shadow may not give you the entire picture or the downsides (likely because they are still currently working under the employer).

 

Becoming a PA is a difficult and expensive process, as it involves getting different prereqs for different schools, working for a few years to get PCE, spending ~200K for PA school, getting through PA school, etc. This is a large time and money commitment, and I wanted to find out more about the future of the profession. I understand every career has its pros and cons, along with its unique stresses. Based on thi forum, I get the impression that:

1) Many PA's are overworked and are seeing too many patients in a day, esp in primary care

2) Finding a good job in a good location is very hard; it seems the best jobs are located in rural areas where people would not really want to live.

3) Pay and benefits are going down because there are more new grads (esp in good locations) and employers can be picky

4) PA's are being burnt out vey soon due to workplace demand. I've heard of PA's having to part time instead of full time due to too much stress.

 

I think it is very sad if someone goes through so much time, effort, and money to become a PA, but ultimately gets very burned out very quickly after graduation. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Joe65D]

" it seems the best jobs are located in rural areas where people would not really want to live."

 

People like living in cities? That's weird. 

[BruceBanner]

Hi all,

 

I am a new member so please forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong section. I am interested in the PA profession, and am trying to gain some insight. Trying to find a PA to shadow has been difficult, and from others' experiences, the PA that you shadow may not give you the entire picture or the downsides (likely because they are still currently working under the employer).

 

Becoming a PA is a difficult and expensive process, as it involves getting different prereqs for different schools, working for a few years to get PCE, spending ~200K for PA school, getting through PA school, etc. This is a large time and money commitment, and I wanted to find out more about the future of the profession. I understand every career has its pros and cons, along with its unique stresses. Based on thi forum, I get the impression that:

1) Many PA's are overworked and are seeing too many patients in a day, esp in primary care

2) Finding a good job in a good location is very hard; it seems the best jobs are located in rural areas where people would not really want to live.

3) Pay and benefits are going down because there are more new grads (esp in good locations) and employers can be picky

4) PA's are being burnt out vey soon due to workplace demand. I've heard of PA's having to part time instead of full time due to too much stress.

 

I think it is very sad if someone goes through so much time, effort, and money to become a PA, but ultimately gets very burned out very quickly after graduation. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

1. Correct.

2. As a newer grad, you can usually have only 2 of 3 be optimal: specialty, location, and pay. There are great-paying, highly-benefited jobs in rural areas, but the main reason people dont take them is because of family and social considerations. E.g. spouse's job, kids, family in the area, having a social life outside of work, etc. It's a tough transition.

3. Also correct.

4. Correct again. I take unpaid days to avoid being full-time.

 

It's not that good jobs don't exist, but they are not the norm. I think it's important that you weight these things carefully. It's easy to look at the profession through rose-colored lenses when you are a pre-PA or a student. You only want to see the best so you can get through it. 

 

I've often said that the biggest regret I have from the whole process of the last 10+ years is the amount of debt I incurred. Without this debt burden I could retire so much sooner or just move on to other endeavors. I couldn't have known the stressors that awaited me after school, and even though this work isnt my calling I made the best decision I could at the time.

 

The bright side of the profession is that you will generally make good money (if you assert yourself and don't settle for the first offer you have), you are doing a very skilled, respectable trade that sometimes actually helps people, and if you get into a good position there is a high degree of autonomy.

 

IMO, unless you have someway to mitigate the debt burden---either help from family, scholarships/grants, or some other sort of windfall---it is not worth it. 

[EMEDPA]

I think 200k is higher than most folks end up spending. undergrad + pa school can be done for 125-150k if you make good decisions about which program to attend, where to live, what to drive, social life, etc

[mgriffiths]

$200k for PA school is ridiculous.  It's not that you couldn't spend that amount of money, but I honestly don't think it would be worth it - that's almost med school debt.

 

I would even say that undergrad + PA school can be done for much less than $125-150k if you are willing to push yourself a bit during undergrad.  You can definitely get HCE while in undergrad, which also makes you money to help with school costs.  Then just be choosy about what schools you apply to for PA school.  Maybe it's worth it to spend a bit more for one of the higher ranked schools, but being about 2 months out of school I'll tell you that I am so glad I went to a state PA school that cost half of some other private and out-of-state schools would have cost.

 

You just need to plan ahead and then work hard as you get out of school to really focus on paying down your debt.

 

Lastly, there are going to be two things that generally bring people to this forum - those who are interested in PA school and those who are having it rough.  So the population here is probably a bit skewed.  Of course there are others who like the "community" and like helping others out.  Bottom line, I personally believe that there is a reason that PA is one of the highest ranked professions by Forbes and other similar companies.

 

It is all about your outlook and goals in life.  If you are trying to make the most money possible, healthcare will never be the correct choice (MBA and become investment banker).  If you are looking for a job where you are able to connect with people when they are most vulnerable and help make a positive change in their lives then PA MIGHT be the right choice.  I am not making the most I could have as a newly graduated ortho PA, but my hours are not ridiculous and my salary is good.  While the day is busy, I'm not running around always late or behind.  Yes, I'm still new, but I love my job and while PA school was a mostly terrible experience I don't regret doing it one bit (please note that every PA I've talked to had terrible things to say about PA school so this is probably more because the education is brutal and not because the school I went to was awful).

[BruceBanner]

This forum may have a slight bias, but these are also unfiltered views you are not going to get from shadowing or your preceptors and instructors. I try to keep it in perspective. What I find miserable someone else may actually like. And on the spectrum of jobs you could be doing, being a PA is cool in a lot of ways and has its perks.

 

My contention is, if you are going to go through the pain and suffering of PA school, AND incur 100-200k in debt (at the extremes) to boot, you had better be well-informed and seek as many opinions and perspectives as you can. HCE only goes so far---because it's impossible to get a feel for the responsibility and demands of the job without actually doing the job and being held accountable. So there is a leap of faith that everyone takes.

 

If after all this you STILL want to do it, then prioritize minimizing your debt, or dont do it. Go to a state program, live at home and commute, whatever you have to do. A lot of people will go no matter the cost, and that, IMO, is a mistake.

[mgriffiths]

Well said HULK!

[newton9686]

First off, there is nothing wrong with rural medicine. Is rural medicine for everyone? Of course not. But most people write it off without being open to it which is a mistake, especially for PAs, when the same ones writing off rural medicine are struggling for autonomy and respect in large academic facilities.  Second, you do not go into healthcare for the money (unless your a healthcare MBA). Like someone said, there are a lot easier and better ways to make a dollar. Most do not believe me, but a degree in finance or accounting is a way better financial investment than PA school. Healthcare SHOULD be about being able to make a nice salary while still having the opportunity to serve others. Finally, I don't agree that PA school is miserable. It is difficult, challenging and at times miserable, but if you leave PA school thinking that was the worst experience of your life, you probably missed the boat. Its like being a high level athlete. It sucks at times, but you should leave it with a sense of pride and accomplishment.

 

The debt does suck, especially if you go to a private school like me. But lucky there are a lot of ways to pay it off. You just have to be willing to work at it. 

[overthehorizen]

Just in case the OP hasn't read my other posts, I must discourage anyone from entering the PA profession at this point. The PA profession has been competing with Physicians and NPs for many years. THe PAs have suffered defeat after defeat. NPs have independent practice in 21 states and GROWING. They have a score card to show how they are winning the battle. https://www.aanp.org/legislation-regulation/state-legislation/state-practice-environment

 

NPs have won full independence at the Department of Veterans Affairs. PAs remain dependent practitioners in the VA healthcare system. PAs have a PA in the Senior Executive Service at the VA yet there was no reply from his office before or after the announcement. Thank you Frank Sabotka.

 

People here will argue that the PA education is superior and they are correct. The bottom line is that inferior education in the NP program will launch your career into many more opportunities that any PA will ever enjoy. People will argue that PAs have the "medical model" and doctors love to partner with us. Not really so. Nobody knows (patient's and administration) what the medical model means and how it translates to an advantage. Doctors care about minimizing risk and maximizing their profit. They don't see PAs as "partners" or "colleagues" any more than Miss Daisy sees her driver Huck as a colleague. 

 

The vast majority of PAs are afraid to win practice independence. The enjoy a subservient role where they have no future, no earnings growth, no negotiating power, and minimal respect despite continued serious investment in their ongoing education. NPs have surpassed us by virtue of political power, not intellectual power. The sad truth is that being intelligent and competent is irrelevant. Hence, the value of retaking the PANRE every ten years is absolutely zero. Nurse practitioners never reboard but they keep winning independent practice and killing us. The only winners in the PA "profession" are the NCCPA and PA Programs. The NCCPA is making a killing on the guaranteed revenues from CME fees, PANCE and PANRE. They are trying to boost their margins with the phony CAQ; a certificate that adds more cost to the PA but doesn't win independent practice anywhere in the nation. It is a never ending rendition of "I feel pretty." 

 

The PA programs are making a killing because all it takes to increase revenues at a flagging little liberal arts college is start a PA program with 40 new students paying 40K years. In two years, you have boosted revenue by $3.2M. It is a sweet deal. Hire one full time "program director" and a couple of part-timer PAs with a couple years experience. Make a few phone calls to local doctor and get them to take students. Voila, the College president is now a little richer. 

 

There are far far better opportunities. NP route is vastly superior to PA at this point. However, many people who are capable of becoming PAs are more than capable of becoming MDs. They should exhaust themselves pursuing the MD program first. If it is not attainable, then retreat and go NP. NEVER, EVER go to PA school. 

[charlottew]

^^^ broken record. You have (as you yourself pointed out) posted these points before, repeatedly.

 

Please, take steps to improve your life and life outlook, and stop spending your time spreading your negativity as an anonymous semi-troll. It is tiresome to read, and must be getting at least a little repetitive for you. 

[overthehorizen]

^^^ broken record. You have (as you yourself pointed out) posted these points before, repeatedly.

 

Please, take steps to improve your life and life outlook, and stop spending your time spreading your negativity as an anonymous semi-troll. It is tiresome to read, and must be getting at least a little repetitive for you. 

I am often taken to task on my less than rosy outlook for the PA profession. I feel the need to reassure this community that I am in fact a PA-C and practicing. My views may not reflect those of the community here for several reasons. One that comes to mind is conflict of interest. While I don't know anybody personally on this board, I am certain there are some who derive some income from employment with a PA program. Some, may benefit from their association financially with the AAPA or NCCPA. We have seen the introduction of disclosures in medical presentations for bias. Perhaps, we could find a way to disclose in a general way that the poster is affiliated with the NCCPA, AAPA or a certified PA Program. Just a thought. 

[beattie228]

Just in case the OP hasn't read my other posts, I must discourage anyone from entering the PA profession at this point. The PA profession has been competing with Physicians and NPs for many years. THe PAs have suffered defeat after defeat. NPs have independent practice in 21 states and GROWING. They have a score card to show how they are winning the battle. https://www.aanp.org/legislation-regulation/state-legislation/state-practice-environment

 

NPs have won full independence at the Department of Veterans Affairs. PAs remain dependent practitioners in the VA healthcare system. PAs have a PA in the Senior Executive Service at the VA yet there was no reply from his office before or after the announcement. Thank you Frank Sabotka.

 

People here will argue that the PA education is superior and they are correct. The bottom line is that inferior education in the NP program will launch your career into many more opportunities that any PA will ever enjoy. People will argue that PAs have the "medical model" and doctors love to partner with us. Not really so. Nobody knows (patient's and administration) what the medical model means and how it translates to an advantage. Doctors care about minimizing risk and maximizing their profit. They don't see PAs as "partners" or "colleagues" any more than Miss Daisy sees her driver Huck as a colleague. 

 

The vast majority of PAs are afraid to win practice independence. The enjoy a subservient role where they have no future, no earnings growth, no negotiating power, and minimal respect despite continued serious investment in their ongoing education. NPs have surpassed us by virtue of political power, not intellectual power. The sad truth is that being intelligent and competent is irrelevant. Hence, the value of retaking the PANRE every ten years is absolutely zero. Nurse practitioners never reboard but they keep winning independent practice and killing us. The only winners in the PA "profession" are the NCCPA and PA Programs. The NCCPA is making a killing on the guaranteed revenues from CME fees, PANCE and PANRE. They are trying to boost their margins with the phony CAQ; a certificate that adds more cost to the PA but doesn't win independent practice anywhere in the nation. It is a never ending rendition of "I feel pretty." 

 

The PA programs are making a killing because all it takes to increase revenues at a flagging little liberal arts college is start a PA program with 40 new students paying 40K years. In two years, you have boosted revenue by $3.2M. It is a sweet deal. Hire one full time "program director" and a couple of part-timer PAs with a couple years experience. Make a few phone calls to local doctor and get them to take students. Voila, the College president is now a little richer. 

 

There are far far better opportunities. NP route is vastly superior to PA at this point. However, many people who are capable of becoming PAs are more than capable of becoming MDs. They should exhaust themselves pursuing the MD program first. If it is not attainable, then retreat and go NP. NEVER, EVER go to PA school. 

Your suggestions are preposterous, per usual. The PA profession is a terrific career choice for the right individual. That person is someone who is patient oriented and team-centered. Based on numerous similar postings of yours, it is obvious that you are deeply unsatisfied with your own piece of the pie. That by no means gives you grounds to discourage others who are on their own journey. 

 

One of the only valid points I've seen of yours thus far is the concern for Mom & Pop schools creating a PA program strictly from a financial aspect. Applicants need to use due diligence and approach new programs with caution as new programs are often rife with complications, growing pains as well as a lack of fruitful rotation opportunities.

[MT2PA]

I only have the PA experience to work from, but I'd venture a guess that many providers (PA/NP/MD/DO) feel the stress and pressure of healthcare.  

 

No matter your title there is the idea that you should see more patients in less time and do it for less money.  A lot of that is just healthcare in general.  I was in a non-provider role previously and the same things happen: benefits start getting 'altered', they make you feel guilty about calling in sick or using your PTO (or it's a straight up HASSEL to get time off), you burn out, the good jobs are taken by people that won't leave until they die or retire, the best way to up your salary is often to find a new job....the list goes on.  These aren't necessarily PA related problems.

 

If you're planning on spending $200k for PA school I hope you get a stack of gold with that.  I attend one of the more expensive programs in a fairly expensive city and even I won't have that kind of debt.

[charlottew]

I am often taken to task on my less than rosy outlook for the PA profession. I feel the need to reassure this community that I am in fact a PA-C and practicing. My views may not reflect those of the community here for several reasons. One that comes to mind is conflict of interest. While I don't know anybody personally on this board, I am certain there are some who derive some income from employment with a PA program. Some, may benefit from their association financially with the AAPA or NCCPA. We have seen the introduction of disclosures in medical presentations for bias. Perhaps, we could find a way to disclose in a general way that the poster is affiliated with the NCCPA, AAPA or a certified PA Program. Just a thought. 

 

I guess you are suggesting that we who 'take you to task for your (negativity)' are somehow paid cheerleaders for the PA profession (reminiscent of another suggestion in another context of paid protesters, but I will NOT go there).

 

Anyone can look at my past posts and infer that I'm a working PA-C. I do not work for the NCCPA, though they of course give me my '-C'. I do not work for the AAPA, or a PA program either. 

 

I actually agree with you that the PA profession is not a perfect one (guess what, none of them are). And yes, the NPs are better organized than we are. If we want to change that, we should:

 - recruit the best and brightest to our profession (thanks, US News profession rankings) (if it suits their needs and temperment)

 - help train them to be terrific clinicians

 - encourage PA's to advocate for their profession, with their patients and their employers

- encourage PA's to support organizations that will lobby other professional organizations (ie. AMA) and governments on their behalf - AAPA, PAFT, take your choice.

 

You see, those of us that are HAPPY being PA's, we want to make the profession stronger. We want to more forward, not backward. Discouraging talented people from applying is poison to the profession. For some reason you want to poison the profession. That is why you are labeled negative. And now maybe a little paranoid, given your request for credentials.

 

Yes, I have a bias, I believe in the profession. I hope that satisfies your request. And I hope you will consider my request, that you spend at least some of your considerable energy in improving your own outlook and situation, and let people live their lives as they choose.

[overthehorizen]

 we should:

 - recruit the best and brightest to our profession (thanks, US News profession rankings) (if it suits their needs and temperment)

 - help train them to be terrific clinicians

 - encourage PA's to advocate for their profession, with their patients and their employers

- encourage PA's to support organizations that will lobby other professional organizations (ie. AMA) and governments on their behalf - AAPA, PAFT, take your choice.

 

1. The PA profession does recruit the best and brightest. Vastly superior applicants than the NP applicant pool. My issue is that this has no bearing whatsoever on our professional future. An organization of NPs with likely inferior education have pummeled us into near extinction. You are advocating, study more.

2. PAs probably are superior clinicians. It hasn't changed the future. 

3. MDs, NPs, and PAs all advocate for patients and their employers. This isn't a distinction.

4. Supporting the AAPA? Have they succeeded in winning a SINGLE state for independent practice vs 21 states at the NPs side. Why do I support a losing team with no game plan? I know it sounds harsh but the AAPA isn't going to advance this profession. We must have independent practice or we will die. We must abandon the PANRE. It distracts from the practice of medicine and NPs don't do it. They are winning with less. 

 

I'm sorry but sticking my head in the sand when the enemy is about to overrun us isn't a great plan.

[mmiller3]

1. The PA profession does recruit the best and brightest. Vastly superior applicants than the NP applicant pool. My issue is that this has no bearing whatsoever on our professional future. An organization of NPs with likely inferior education have pummeled us into near extinction. You are advocating, study more.

2. PAs probably are superior clinicians. It hasn't changed the future. 

3. MDs, NPs, and PAs all advocate for patients and their employers. This isn't a distinction.

4. Supporting the AAPA? Have they succeeded in winning a SINGLE state for independent practice vs 21 states at the NPs side. Why do I support a losing team with no game plan? I know it sounds harsh but the AAPA isn't going to advance this profession. We must have independent practice or we will die. We must abandon the PANRE. It distracts from the practice of medicine and NPs don't do it. They are winning with less. 

 

I'm sorry but sticking my head in the sand when the enemy is about to overrun us isn't a great plan.

 

Rather than shouting your defeatist ideas to whomever will listen, how about you either A) change professions to one that will make you feel more secure, or B) do something about it. Discouraging people from becoming a PA is basically trying to ensure a self-fulfilling prophecy--of course the PA profession will cease to exist if no one becomes one. I do agree the PANRE is pointless, and independent practice would certainly advance our cause, but we need numbers to enact these changes.

 

Are you truly a PA, or just someone trolling the forums hoping to get a rise out of others? This profession has its issues, for sure, but you acting like this does nothing to change them.

[camoman1234]

1. The PA profession does recruit the best and brightest. Vastly superior applicants than the NP applicant pool. My issue is that this has no bearing whatsoever on our professional future. An organization of NPs with likely inferior education have pummeled us into near extinction. You are advocating, study more.

2. PAs probably are superior clinicians. It hasn't changed the future. 

3. MDs, NPs, and PAs all advocate for patients and their employers. This isn't a distinction.

4. Supporting the AAPA? Have they succeeded in winning a SINGLE state for independent practice vs 21 states at the NPs side. Why do I support a losing team with no game plan? I know it sounds harsh but the AAPA isn't going to advance this profession. We must have independent practice or we will die. We must abandon the PANRE. It distracts from the practice of medicine and NPs don't do it. They are winning with less. 

 

I'm sorry but sticking my head in the sand when the enemy is about to overrun us isn't a great plan.

AAPA has never fought for independent practice until recently (FPAR). So your comment about "why do I support a losing team with no game plan" means nothing since AAPA just NOW is pushing for FPAR. You are going to be the PA that will run yourself into the ground, not the other 100,000 PAs out there. Your comments/thoughts about a awesome career and community of health professionals is toxic. You are NOT helping anyone by repeating the same thing over and over while just sitting there doing nothing to help/change/advance PAs. It would be nice if you quit commenting about how the PA career is going down the toilet and NPs are taking over, we surely get it by now...

[BruceBanner]

This issue has been a regular forum topic since at least 2009 when I was a pre-PA, and probably longer than that. There has always been 1 or 2 people here who think the NPs are taking our jerbbs. And here we are, 8 years later, still as viable as ever.

 

 

 

Jokes aside, I do agree with our vocal dissenter here that we are not advancing quickly enough and if we dont gain full independence, eventually, we will be strangled out of the market. The whole reason NPs started their fight was because they realized being tethered to a physician was detrimental to their job security.

 

What's absolutely necessary for this to happen with PAs is strong leadership---people with a chip on their shoulder and access to deep pockets who arent afraid to rock boats and be aggressive. Individual PAs dont care enough. The NPs didnt gain independence by grassroots "educating" and "encouragement", they got it by leveraging their massive numbers, relentless lobbying, and establishing a precedent. Once a few states pass, it makes it easier for others to follow suit. 

[overthehorizen]

This issue has been a regular forum topic since at least 2009 when I was a pre-PA, and probably longer than that. There has always been 1 or 2 people here who think the NPs are taking our jerbbs. And here we are, 8 years later, still as viable as ever.

 

 

I thought BruceBanner's post was funny. It reminded me of this....

 

[sillycibin]

Just in case the OP hasn't read my other posts, I must discourage anyone from entering the PA profession at this point. The PA profession has been competing with Physicians and NPs for many years. THe PAs have suffered defeat after defeat. NPs have independent practice in 21 states and GROWING. They have a score card to show how they are winning the battle. https://www.aanp.org/legislation-regulation/state-legislation/state-practice-environment

 

NPs have won full independence at the Department of Veterans Affairs. PAs remain dependent practitioners in the VA healthcare system. PAs have a PA in the Senior Executive Service at the VA yet there was no reply from his office before or after the announcement. Thank you Frank Sabotka.

 

People here will argue that the PA education is superior and they are correct. The bottom line is that inferior education in the NP program will launch your career into many more opportunities that any PA will ever enjoy. People will argue that PAs have the "medical model" and doctors love to partner with us. Not really so. Nobody knows (patient's and administration) what the medical model means and how it translates to an advantage. Doctors care about minimizing risk and maximizing their profit. They don't see PAs as "partners" or "colleagues" any more than Miss Daisy sees her driver Huck as a colleague. 

 

The vast majority of PAs are afraid to win practice independence. The enjoy a subservient role where they have no future, no earnings growth, no negotiating power, and minimal respect despite continued serious investment in their ongoing education. NPs have surpassed us by virtue of political power, not intellectual power. The sad truth is that being intelligent and competent is irrelevant. Hence, the value of retaking the PANRE every ten years is absolutely zero. Nurse practitioners never reboard but they keep winning independent practice and killing us. The only winners in the PA "profession" are the NCCPA and PA Programs. The NCCPA is making a killing on the guaranteed revenues from CME fees, PANCE and PANRE. They are trying to boost their margins with the phony CAQ; a certificate that adds more cost to the PA but doesn't win independent practice anywhere in the nation. It is a never ending rendition of "I feel pretty." 

 

The PA programs are making a killing because all it takes to increase revenues at a flagging little liberal arts college is start a PA program with 40 new students paying 40K years. In two years, you have boosted revenue by $3.2M. It is a sweet deal. Hire one full time "program director" and a couple of part-timer PAs with a couple years experience. Make a few phone calls to local doctor and get them to take students. Voila, the College president is now a little richer. 

 

There are far far better opportunities. NP route is vastly superior to PA at this point. However, many people who are capable of becoming PAs are more than capable of becoming MDs. They should exhaust themselves pursuing the MD program first. If it is not attainable, then retreat and go NP. NEVER, EVER go to PA school. 

 

I agree with a lot of this.  I've contemplated at times becoming an NP so I could obtain independent practice.  And it's going to become a bigger and bigger deal as practices are swallowed up and everyone becomes an employee of a hospital or a corporation.  NPs who do not require additional paperwork, supervision, and fees are much more desirable over PAs.  Plus hospitals are run by nurses, so guess who they are going to favor?  And NP programs are churning NPs out at an even faster rate than our PA programs who are spewing new grads at ridiculous rates.  NPs can at least fall back on their RN degrees.  Eventually new grad PAs will get to join the newly minted lawyers and pharmacists in the unemployment line.  This is why the MDs have always protected the growth of their numbers.

[sillycibin]

What is happening to our profession is what happened to Law and Pharmacy.  Here is a very common complaint echoed on pharmacy forums.  Some of it doesn't exactly match up with issues facing us, but some matches well:

"What a terrible state of affairs the profession of pharmacy has become:

1) Bureau of Labor Statistics scared everyone into worry about a "huge shortage". Yes I understand there may have been a shortage due to the graying of America and an increased population, but what is the worst that could have happened? When I was a kid the pharmacy was opened from 9-5 Mon-Fri and short hours on Sat and Sun. We all lived. Maybe the only thing which would have happened would be retail pharmacies would be open fewer hours. I also wonder if BLS stats took into effect the gains we have seen with technology such as robotics, central fill and all the advancements since 2000?

2) They never should have made the PharmD the "entry level degree". It should have remained optional. I guess that "doctorate tuition" rate was too good for those in academia to pass up. If we had retained the BSPharm as the entry level degree, it would have kept people's tuition low and the only "doctorate tuition" would be for the 6th year, which would be fair and appropriate. The PharmD should have been reserved for those interested in a more clinical pharmacy career.

3) The BLS stats rang the dinner bell for the greed and avarice of academia. Show kids they can make $125,000 a year and the student loan debt of >$135,000 doesn't sound so bad. They were building pharmacy school like they were going out of style… They have promised grads a "fool proof career" with no downside, yet I am reading there will be a 25% unemployment rate for kids who graduate in 2020..

The lesson learned…don't listen to government bureaucrats or academia who never worked in a pharmacy…they are bought and sold by big interests…I wouldn't doubt if the CVS' and Walgreens of the world had a hand in both selling the "shortage myth" and funding pharmacy schools…"

[south]

I dunno.  A lot of these things don't bother me.  Checks stop cashing, the opportunities start seriously dwindling and I will go do something else.  

 

As I've said before, I may or may not be essentially shoulder to shoulder with NPs.  Maybe (or maybe not) my boss, co-workers, wife and/or all my various girlfriends are NPs.  I never heard of NP > PA until I came to this forum.  Not going to call anyone a liar, so I sit corrected in that I guess some places they are favored.  

 

When it came up last time, I was told "yeah, well, try having "Nurse" as the first word of your title".  

 

The HR director where I worked told me "doctors are employees.  If your employee wants a car to get around, are you going to buy them a PA New King Ranch pickup, or a six-year old Kia NP that will probably keep the wind off their face?"

 

With various bad luck, stuff that I signed/waited for disappearing, and now the federal hiring freeze, I have had a really tough time getting started, but my opinion ONLY I'm still miles ahead of MD and NP.

 

To quote great philosophers Chumbawumba, "Pissing the night away".  Oh crap, wait, I meant "You're never gonna keep me down".  Get busy livin'.