Don't Ask Don't Tell

[istat2]

Here is the difference between the military and civilian societies:

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Tell you not to do something stupid when drunk

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will post 360 security so you don't get caught

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Call your parents Mr. and Mrs.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Call your parents Mom and Dad

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Never take your food.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Are the reason you have no food.

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Get upset if you’re too busy to talk to them for a week.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Are glad to see you after years, and will happily carry on the same conversation you were having last time you met.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Hope the night out drinking goes smoothly, and hope that no one is late for the ride home.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Know some wild **** will happen, and set up rally points and an E & E route.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Bail you out of jail and tell you what you did was wrong.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will be sitting next to you saying, Damn...we screwed up...but hey, that was fun

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Never see you cry.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Cry with you.

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Would knock on your door and wait.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Walk right in and say I’m home.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Borrow your stuff for a few days then give it back.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Keep the stuff for so long everyone forgets who it belongs to.

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Are happy that someone picked up a one night stand and leave them alone.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Kick in the door with a video camera in hope to have some blackmail material to work with. Remember the classic line “film at 11”-you will hear it again!

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will listen to your relationship problems and hope it works out for you.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will listen to you over a long hard road march, and will help you straighten it out better than Dr. Phil.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Know a few things about you.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Could write a book with direct quotes from you.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Might try to hit on your girl behind your back.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Have spooned with you in the field more than your girl has, and would never even think about doing that.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will leave you behind if that's what the crowd is doing.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will kick the whole crowd’s *** that left you.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Would knock on your door.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Walk right in and say, "I'm home!"

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will try and talk to the bouncer when you get tossed out of the bar.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will man up and go after the bouncer for touching you on the way out.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will wish you had enough money to go out that night, and are sorry you couldn't come.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will share their last dollar with you, drag you along, and try to steal free drinks all night.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will take your drink away when you've had enough.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will look at you stumbling all over the place and say, "You better drink the rest of that you know we don't waste. That's alcohol abuse!!!"

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Want the money they loaned you back next week.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Can't begin to remember who owes who money after taking care of each other for so long.

 

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will talk **** to the person who talks **** about you.

MILITARY FRIENDS: Will knock them out!!

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will tell you "I'd take a bullet for you."

MILITARY FRIENDS: Do actually take a bullet for you.

 

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Have a few shared experiences

MILITARY FRIENDS: Have shared a lifetime of experiences no civilian could ever dream of

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Are for a while

MILITARY FRIENDS: Are for life

 

[CAdamsPAC]

My wife and I cranked out the drive between Boise and Ft. Lewis. I loved eastern Oregon and western Washington. Especially the mountains thru Washington.

 

Doc A- I took the exact route you speak of. It was quick and easy. I just got your post now so we hit "Harbor Light" down on the water there in Tacoma. It was good but pricey. I'll check out Ivar's Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks.

 

Istat- a huge understatement indeed :D.

 

Ahhh PCS'ing cross country with a car load of kids! God I miss it! Nate the Ivar's on pier 54 or The Crab Pot on Pier 57 in Seattle's waterfront are both good. Did you experience the "Tacoma Aroma"?

The trip along I-90 from Yakima to Fort Lewis can't be appreciated unless it's done at convoy speed in a FLA or a duece & half in the winter or middle of the summer heat!!! The Snoquallimie summit is a good one to climb driving in the support platoon serial behind the tankers and in front of the recovery section wrecker! It brings tears to my eyes.....NOT! Eastern Wa and western OR are areas most folks don't appreciate. I lived in Moses Lake as a kid when my father was stationed there in the 50's. Pendelton OR was the base for the famed 555th Parachute Inf in WWII the Black ABN Bn that fought forest fires started by Japanese incinderary balloons. There is a PA job in Fosil OR that is always being advertised....for good reason.

[GregoryHousePA]

I read the first 6 pages of this thread, so I feel I got a good sense of what's going on. Why not throw my $0.02. Where to start...

 

I'm gay. (That makes like 2 people total here, right?) I use to consider myself a Republican, but then realized current Republicans weren't actually Republican. So I have no real party affiliation or team bias. I've never served. I could give my religion, but don't see how that's relevant since we live in a country based off secularism. As a side note, being "secular" doesn't mean being godless or without morals. It means being respectful of all people regardless of their personal beliefs.

 

I understand where these disapproving people come from when they say, "I don't want gays checking out my junk." That's fair, you're uncomfortable, and women and men have always been split apart. You want some mutual respect. My response is that I don't understand why women and men need to be split apart. Aren't they all adults on a mission? IDK - I've never served so maybe I'm missing something here. When I'm seen as a patient, or seeing a patient I don't care about gender. But if it's really that big of a need to split men from women, then yes it should be done by sexual orientation also. Men have rights too.

 

Outside of this living condition situation I think it's ridiculous that gays shouldn't be able to serve openly in the military. What part of being gay is a hinderance to service? Oh, it makes some good old boys uncomfortable and they make up a large percentage of the military? I dare say that a number of people felt just as uncomfortable next to blacks when they started serving without segregation. People are different. Get over it. You would be shocked that you might actually like and respect these people.

 

As for whether homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice" or not - does it matter? If people don't approve or respect me because of my "choices" then so be it. It's not like I have to approve of you either. I'll still show you respect. I'm not touching the "sin" aspect because that is purely up for interpretation based off you religion.

 

Which leads me to this last ridiculous question about being gay and a Christian musician. Believe it or not, there are sects of Christianity that don't believe homosexuality is a sin. Crazy I know. They're the same groups that also believe in evolution, women's right and that slavery is out of fashion. What is this world coming to.

 

Addition:

To people who support gays via DADT: Why are heteros allowed to talk about their families and spouses and maybe daresay occasionally their sexual desires, while gays aren't allowed to express anything similarly? I listen to my straight friends talk all day about their raunchy desires. If I say "I want to see Prince of Persia simply for Jake Gyllenhall," then damn(!) let me get that off my chest! It's not like I'm humping your leg!

[3GeronimoPA]

Ahhh PCS'ing cross country with a car load of kids! God I miss it! Nate the Ivar's on pier 54 or The Crab Pot on Pier 57 in Seattle's waterfront are both good. Did you experience the "Tacoma Aroma"?

The trip along I-90 from Yakima to Fort Lewis can't be appreciated unless it's done at convoy speed in a FLA or a duece & half in the winter or middle of the summer heat!!! The Snoquallimie summit is a good one to climb driving in the support platoon serial behind the tankers and in front of the recovery section wrecker! It brings tears to my eyes.....NOT! Eastern Wa and western OR are areas most folks don't appreciate. I lived in Moses Lake as a kid when my father was stationed there in the 50's. Pendelton OR was the base for the famed 555th Parachute Inf in WWII the Black ABN Bn that fought forest fires started by Japanese incinderary balloons. There is a PA job in Fosil OR that is always being advertised....for good reason.

I'm glad you miss PCS'ing across country with the kids because I distinctly remember telling my wife if I could fly her and the kids to Seattle to meet them here and have them hang out until I got to Anchorage and then fly them. She pressed and pressed and they were in the car behind me asking to stop every 60 minutes. I had my mom-in-law help her drive as the little ones are young. She thought she was on a sight seeing vacation. My military OCD was crawling all over my body like those beetles on the move "The Mummy". This is not a vacation, it's a military move. Needless to say, I stopped so ma-in-law could eat a small meal in each state and to see the gorge at "Twin Falls" which was beautiful but the OCD put a red tint on everything so I couldn't take it in. I kept it all in because mom-in-law did come at my request and my wife never complained so I couldn't "I told you so" her about flying up here.

 

We did catch a bit of an odd smell down on the water in Tacoma. I had no clue its so famous. I googled it. We're staying down in Lacy which is a small burb of Olympia. EVERYTHING here is so green. This is how green I thought Colorado Springs was going to be... This is one beautiful place. I experienced West Oregon and East Washington at 82MPH with cruise control on and Santana blarring so loud I was at peace with my OCD. Pendleton Oregon is actually the place we stopped to get mom-in-law her fix. It wasn't too bad. It had nice small town shops, I love towns on hills, and just east of there were fun mountains. The wife was white knuckle driving with my cruise control locked in. When you see the "runaway truck" lanes you know you're in for a fun ride. I'll probably hit Ivar's tomorrow for Lunch. I have to put turn my wife's car over nearby so they can take it to Alaska for me. Ferry rolls Friday!

[mcorreal]

My advice is to not ask others if they think you are or would be man enough to serve in the Navy. Navy certainly isn't Marine. Like Nike says. "just do it"! If you are questioning your own man hood and strength, maybe you shouldn't go at all. I say suck it up and be a man! I hope this doesn't come across as being to harsh. Good luck.

[roman6163]

I read the first 6 pages of this thread, so I feel I got a good sense of what's going on. Why not throw my $0.02. Where to start................................

 

A most excellent post Gregory.

 

Very good insight.

 

Thanks.

[milo4k]

I read the first 6 pages of this thread, so I feel I got a good sense of what's going on. Why not throw my $0.02. Where to start...

 

Totally agree. The major issue with DADT is that the first part is totally unenforceable. People ask if you're romantically involved with anyone all the

time in a casual conversation. Are gays suppose to lie on that question?

 

Some of the posters brought up the case of former Army Sgt. Darren Manzella. He was being harassed through emails and phone calls at work, and he felt he had

no choice but to go to his CO, and of course, the Army discharged Manzella.

 

p.s. went to see Prince of Persia because of Chesty Jake, had a hilarious time listening to his faux-Brit. not a terrible movie I suppose.

[junglecat]

I don`t think you have any problem in the army, i have been in the army for nearly 8 yrs, i have met gays and lesbian some of whom have been pretty open about it, others have been secretive, and have never heard complains of homophobia from any one. I think you should be okay, as long you not make a political issue within your unit.

[CaliPAGirl]

I could not even get myself to read through this whole thread - I truly feel nauseated.

 

I can not believe some of the disgusting close minded homophobic remarks I just read. I am going to make a quick mental note to never ever open this thread again.

[Guest TerryF]

This thread has no business at this forum. I am a Christian, and I believe homosexuality is a sin. I don't say this to start some argument/debate (so don't try to start one with me!).

 

I don't bring my personal ethics/religion to this forum--it is not the time or place. AND I don't think any of you should do it, either.

 

This forum is about PAs practicing medicine, not about sex and your (or my) personal opinions.

 

I cann't believe the moderator let this continue.

 

And if you want me to take myself from this forum, I will in a minute. This is not right, period, whatever you think about the topic.

 

I don't care what your sexual orientation is. It's none of my business, and I don't want to know. BTW, I spent twenty years in the military. It never was a problem. I cannot understand why all of a sudden homosexuals want everybody else to know about their "sexual" life. I don't care. This in NOT the time or the place.

 

Again, if I am not welcome here any longer, I will be off. Trust me, life will be meaningful and full even without this forum. There is a limit to somethings, and this thread crosses that limit.

 

TerryF

[Contrarian]

Umm....

 

I find it interesting, typical and poor form that YOU had no problem advancing YOUR personal values in this thread and the thread on abortion prior to asserting that they shouldn't be a part of a forum "about PAs practicing medicine."

 

This thread was started long before you stumbled upon this site...

 

This forum has existed and grown LOOOONG before YOU stumbled upon this site...

 

Those of us who have been here since its inception have been doing just fine without your guidance as to what this forum is or is not about or what should or should not be allowed here...

 

The moderators are doing fine...

 

YOU don't get to decide what can be posted and or discussed here.

 

Don't like the topic... either hit the back button or that big red "X" in the upper right corner of the window.

 

Save the "histrionics" for the next time you vist the Fred Phelps website and forum.

 

That will be all for now.

 

Ciao

 

Contrarian

[Guest TerryF]

What planet do you come from? Do you read before you mouth off?

 

The thread was not about abortion; it was about PAs being able to discuss the topic with patients. Nothing was ever said about the ethics of abortion; that was not the issue. The thread was about PAs relation to the topic. The idea is that PAs role is shrinking in the practice of medicine. Nothing is said about abortion per se. If you had read, you would have seen that.

 

In this thread about homosexuality, the issue is homosexuality, not how PAs relate to it in their practice. And the topic in this thread DADT is a political one which is against the forum rules.

 

WADR, the more I read what you share, the less faith I have in anything you say.

 

BTW, your "jokes" are sad, sad, sad.

 

TerryF

[Hemegroup]

This thread has no business at this forum. I am a Christian, and I believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

It's so bizarre to me how a medical professional can describe a sexual orientation as a "sin". Is that what they taught you in PA school? Here's a TIME article on a study on brains of homosexuals ... is their brain a "sin" too?

 

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html

 

And no, the repeal of DADT was obviously not so homosexuals can tout their "sexual life" ... I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was so that they couldn't be discharged from their military position.

 

But you're entitled to your opinion ... welcome to our Great Nation, which gives us those freedoms.

[Guest TerryF]

What didn't you quote the rest of that statement. Homosexuality (right or wrong) is not the point/purpose of this forum. If it is, many of us are here for the wrong reasons. I am here to be a better Physician Assistant. Hearing you (or others) share your personal opinions is NOT going to help me one iota.

 

The next time you want to quote me, please use the entire context, and not try to make me say something I didn't say.

 

TerryF

[Hemegroup]

The next time you want to quote me, please use the entire context, and not try to make me say something I didn't say.

 

TerryF

 

So you don't believe that homosexuality is a sin? I thought that was plainly what you stated. You don't think it should be discussed ... yet you still feel obligated to state your viewpoint and no one else is allowed to respond to it, is that it?

 

I think you and I should probably just refrain from 'discussing' that topic from here on. Because you're right, hearing your personal opinion didn't do anything for me, certainly not on a scientific or medical level.

[Guest TerryF]

Let me repeat: the issue is not homosexuality per se. The issue is whether that topic in appropriate for this forum.

 

I could understand if we were discussing how we as PAs can better serve homosexuals medically, but that is NOT this thread is about.

 

If you are here to promote your personal belief in homosexuality, then I have just as much right to challenge that belief. But that is NOT my reason for being here. This forum has already given me much great information. I would suppose that is the reason this forum started in the first place. This is not the place to 'push" your/my personal agenda.

 

TerryF

[Contrarian]

What planet do you come from? Do you read before you mouth off?

 

The thread was not about abortion; it was about PAs being able to discuss the topic with patients. Nothing was ever said about the ethics of abortion; that was not the issue. The thread was about PAs relation to the topic. The idea is that PAs role is shrinking in the practice of medicine. Nothing is said about abortion per se. If you had read, you would have seen that. [Correct... but YOU made sure you let everyone who clicked on that thread know how you felt about ABORTION...!!! Now in this thread you are saying that you were concerned about PAs not able to discuss ABORTION in that thread... but in this thread you are trying to stop PAs from discussing DADT and homosexuality AFTER YOU made sure you let everyone who clicked on this thread know how you felt about homosexuality...!!! . But yeah...again, as is typical, YOU won't likely see the inconsistancy in this because it doesn't fit YOUR religiously biased worldview.]

In this thread about homosexuality, the issue is homosexuality, not how PAs relate to it in their practice [NOPE...!!! This is more biased, closed minded crap. This thread is about DADT. Maybe they didn't teach this in the PA program YOU attended, but where I come from, PAs need to be able to ask about sexual orientation and/or sexual habits/proclivities to effectively take care of their patients. Last I checked, these questions were part of the medical curriculum and taught as a standard part of a complete history and physical exam. Sooo... DADT interfered with healthcare providers (Military NPs/PAs/MDs/DOs) doing their jobs. So yes a provider issue]. And the topic in this thread DADT is a political one which is against the forum rules.

 

WADR, the more I read what you share, the less faith I have in anything you say.

 

BTW, your "jokes" are sad, sad, sad.

 

TerryF

 

NICE TRY... but... FAIL...!!!!

 

Whatever dude... glad YOU are here because WE have been waiting on a "Messiah" to appear here and show us the way... and the error in our ways... :heheh:

 

Carry on...

[Hemegroup]

I believe that persecution of innocent people is a sin.

 

And I'm Christ, so what I say goes .... (now where is that Seroquel, I could swear it was here a few days ago ...)

[Guest TerryF]

Man, what planet do you come from? Do you read BEFORE you mouth off.

 

Read what I said, and not what you want to try and make me say. Have you ever studied logic. Your posts are not logical and don't mesh with my statements. You want to twist my words to fit your own personal agenda.

 

My opinion about homosexuality is NOT important; that is not what I said nor what I continue to say. Don't you intellectuals want to be honest with the opponent, or are you happy to spout off and not even connect with what is being said?

 

Just so you know that I too am an intelluctual, I have eight years of college and three degrees. But, again, that is NOT what this is all about. I am as smart as you are; I am not some dump Christian from the sticks of Dixie.

 

Again, why don't you do us both a favor: read what I wrote and be honest with it.

 

TerryF

[Guest TerryF]

No more arguments. I said I would not do that. I am sorry for falling into that. It comes natural.

 

Perhaps, there are two or three people in this forum who can make heads or tails from what I said.

 

You can strike out at me or my character, but when all is said and done, homosexality is not an aproprite topic for this forum.

 

TerryF

[Guest TerryF]

"I believe that persecution of innocent people is a sin." So, do I. What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

TerryF

[Guest TerryF]

I made my point. I've said enough. You can do whatever you want to do with my words or me personally.

 

I'm moving on. I am sorry for taking up so much time in this thread.

 

TerryF

[brookspa]

Hey!! lay off Dixie. now youre about to really start veering from the path.

 

 

on topic...there is a whole lotta mixed up people in this world. accept that. you cant change that. some are opioniated, some are heterosexual, some are homosexual some are muslim some arewhite some are black.........im tired of this thread...too much drama

[rcdavis]

Hey!

 

I take some umbrance to the assertion that, if you are southern ( as am I), and Christian ( as am I), you must be dumb.

 

So stop it.

[Contrarian]

Again, why don't you do us both a favor: read what I wrote and be honest with it.

 

Sure...

 

In the other thread... you seemed to be concerned about PAs practice being restricted from discussing "Abortion" with patients and seemed to see it as a problem and practice impediment and attempted to stimulate discussion about this. (Even though it was irrelevent... YOU made sure all who read that thread KNEW that you didn't condone abortion)

 

In this thread... other forum members seemed to be concerned about PAs being restricted from discussing "Sexual Orientation" (DADT) with patients and seemed to see it as a problem and practice impediment and attempted to stimulate disscussion about this. (Even though it was irrelevent... YOU made sure all who read this thread KNEW that you didn't condone homosexuality)

 

Then you tried to insist that the discussion be curtailed (after YOU made sure all who read this thread KNEW that you didn't condone homosexuality), and suggested that something was wrong with the moderation of this forum and the members here because... something was being disscused that YOU were against (after YOU made sure all who read this thread KNEW that you didn't condone homosexuality).

 

Then you got all "histrionic" about wanting to leave, and not being welcomed, and other such nonsense... as if a anonymous person that no one here knows, threatening to leave a anonymous web-forum will somehow affect what we do here, what we discuss here or how we operate here.

 

The fact that YOU can't see the problem with this speaks volumes.