Don't Ask Don't Tell

[3GeronimoPA]

natetaylor, I don't need you to be "a little nicer"

The statement was made out of respect for the others on this forum. I don't feel the slightest bid bad about giving you back what you threw at me. Actually, my attitude with you was much more tolerant than yours with me.

 

I just needed to explain to you what's behind people who don't believe you (and others like you) to be the Right Hand of God.

Grotesque overstatement of the position I presented. I just said I thought homosexuality was wrong. You're the one handing out the judgments here.

 

It's because I do not identify as a "Christian" and do not believe "the bible" to be divinely inspired, that nothing of what you replied to me made a dent. You project your religious beliefs as your argument, and that doesn't work for me. Fact works for me.

The first part is obvious. You are impervious to indentation Heme. There are numerous facts to support the validity of the bible. I am sure you can google them. I am not re-engaging and taking this forum over when the information can be found.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/james-inhofe-soldiers-not_n_576390.html

And for this reason Heme, in addition to the digression we have embarked upon, I am done. I read this article to fact check you. I didn't read the silly commentary, I actually read the study just like I would with medicine. 1st- they polled 545 Servicemembers who have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, which after this point in the war I would venture to say there have been about a million of us who have put our feet on those grounds in the defense of our great country. That is poor sampling but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt which leads me to #2- That Inhofe Study actually found that only "26%" of the polled servicemembers believed that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve. It's on the bottom of page 5 of the article attached to the webpage. Combining that with your copy/pasted "73%" of the people polled said they were comfortable with homosexuals. A reasonable person could then deduce that if 73% are comfortable with homosexuals and only 26% thought that they should be able to serve, then many non-homophobic servicemembers who are comfortable with homosexuals on a person to person basis still do not feel that they should be allowed to serve in the military. Your reference supports my position and you either quoted a website that you did not read but instead copy/pasted something that supported your argument OR you knew that the article did not support your position but you quoted it anyways in order to provide muscle. Either way, I find it unacceptable. I only regret that I did not have the time to fact-check more of what you posted. Your argument does not seem very dependent upon the "facts" you claim to cling to.

 

I wish you the best in life and PA school

 

Nate OUT

[Hemegroup]

And 4 out of 5 (78%) said they would join the military regardless of if gays openly served. Two-thirds (64%) who believed they were already serving with a gay member, did not believe there to be a negative impact on their morale or the morale of the unit.

 

Interesting how you choose to ignore those points. To be fair, the report acknowledges that there are still obstacles to be overcome.

 

Maybe we see things we want to see. What I find unacceptable are your attempts to degrade others based on some type of divine ruling, from a book which is flawed and unscientific. Using "God" as a support for your bigotry. How dare you. Pick and choose, pick and choose. Whatever works for you, right?

 

I especially find your earlier statement interesting:

 

Call me radical, but I do believe that our angry......et al.... homophobes are more apt to intentionally doing violence to the enemies of this nation.

I guess the gay soldiers who died being "angry" for our freedoms just weren't good enough for you.

 

Or maybe nate, you're speaking more of your own 'anger' than that of others.

[3GeronimoPA]

.....5.....4......5...........

[3GeronimoPA]

.................................................................................................................................................

[USN2UNC]

So, studying AP2 for 5 hours gets to you so I google imaged 'How dare you'

 

This is what you get...

 

 

Hilarious.

[3GeronimoPA]

LOL... Is that Monica or the former President dolled up she is looking at?

[Guest POTR]

Guy, what are you....the thread police? We have moderators for a reason...they have already been by this thread...you are not one.

 

Didn't claim to be the thread police. Don't claim to be in charge of an ethics committee either. Nor to I hold claim to being a primary source or authority on plagiarism. But it was kind of fun reading you restate my position adding quotes, right after CAdamsPAC gave me the big, disrespectful looking, thumbs down. Not that I mind. I don't see how thanking him, then pointing out once again that I don't agree with detracting from the thread, in as little space as possible, is disrespecting toward him.

 

Maybe you should start with an introduction before you begin with all this hypothetical mess above. If you are Active or a Vet we have a section called Roll Call. If you are neither, your situational awareness sucks.

 

Regardless of time or posts, CAdams is both a vet and a PA with 20+ years of experience, I think that earns him some respect.

 

I am a Veteran, and am also a Life Member of VFW (My member number is 9X91XXX), my Dept of Veteran's Affairs ID is that of a health care eligible veteran with instructions about myhealth.va.gov and where the postmaster is to return the card if found (HEC in Atlanta). Speaking of situational awareness, I find that people will come closer to revealing their true character in dealing with those they don't know or don't perceive as worthy, than they would if they think they know all the angles and are playing to them. Perhaps I wanted to get to know you all a bit better before exposing myself... and what better way than anonymously, in a contentious situation?

 

So... there's a few answers for you... and a lot more for me.

[3GeronimoPA]

Stick around bro. You know how it goes. Sometimes things get started off on the wrong foot among us military folks. A whole bunch of A-types in the room is a recipe for occasional flares of conflict (and some long drawn out ridiculousness as well). The day vets aren't welcome here I'm gone. Just expect to be nipped at every now and again (esp. if offering up critique) and be ready to nip back. Pull that thick skin out of the closet.

[Guest POTR]

Thanks Nate.

 

 

To restate my position...

 

The OP would be well served to consider joining the USPHS... same opportunities... same Navy Uniform... better benies... easier promotions... less headaches...

[Hemegroup]

Finally. I wonder what people will freak out about next. I guess they'll have to find something.

[roman6163]

Finally. I wonder what people will freak out about next. I guess they'll have to find something.

 

Is that a Village People mustache on your avatar? Where's the leather chaps?

[3GeronimoPA]

Our poor military. Aside from pay raises to keep up with inflation we seem to be on the losing end of every political issue from being test bunnies for useless million and billion dollar weapons programs and uniform changes down to uninformed vote chasers who have never served in the military dictating our culture. Do I feel that every politician should have to have served in the military? No. But I would prefer if the one's who didn't would listen to people who have proficiently dedicated their lives to military leadership. This is just our detached democratic lawmakers attempting to rally the liberals as the whole healthcare thing put a sour taste in most moderates' mouths.

 

I wonder what us conservative constitutionalists will freak out about next. I'm sure the next insult to our freedoms and/or our national security is only one hearing away.

[3GeronimoPA]

This is a satirical poem about the modern mind. I figure SOME on here would enjoy it.

 

Creed

by Steve Turner

 

We believe in Marx, Freud and Darwin

We believe everything is OK

as long as you don't hurt anyone

to the best of your definition of hurt,

and to the best of your knowledge.

 

We believe in sex before, during, and

after marriage.

We believe in the therapy of sin.

We believe that adultery is fun.

We believe that sodomy’s OK.

We believe that taboos are taboo.

 

We believe that everything's getting better

despite evidence to the contrary.

The evidence must be investigated

And you can prove anything with evidence.

 

We believe there's something in horoscopes

UFO's and bent spoons.

Jesus was a good man just like Buddha,

Mohammed, and ourselves.

He was a good moral teacher though we think

His good morals were bad.

 

We believe that all religions are basically the same-

at least the one that we read was.

They all believe in love and goodness.

They only differ on matters of creation,

sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.

 

We believe that after death comes the Nothing

Because when you ask the dead what happens

they say nothing.

If death is not the end, if the dead have lied, then its

compulsory heaven for all

excepting perhaps

Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Kahn

 

We believe in Masters and Johnson

What's selected is average.

What's average is normal.

What's normal is good.

 

We believe in total disarmament.

We believe there are direct links between warfare and

bloodshed.

Americans should beat their guns into tractors .

And the Russians would be sure to follow.

 

We believe that man is essentially good.

It's only his behavior that lets him down.

This is the fault of society.

Society is the fault of conditions.

Conditions are the fault of society.

 

We believe that each man must find the truth that

is right for him.

Reality will adapt accordingly.

The universe will readjust.

History will alter.

We believe that there is no absolute truth

excepting the truth

that there is no absolute truth.

We believe in the rejection of creeds,

And the flowering of individual thought.

 

If chance be

the Father of all flesh,

disaster is his rainbow in the sky

and when you hear:

 

State of Emergency!

 

Sniper Kills Ten!

 

Troops on Rampage!

 

(Youths) go Looting!

 

Bomb Blasts School!

 

It is but the sound of man worshiping his maker.

[CAdamsPAC]

Our poor military. Aside from pay raises to keep up with inflation we seem to be on the losing end of every political issue from being test bunnies for useless million and billion dollar weapons programs and uniform changes down to uninformed vote chasers who have never served in the military dictating our culture. Do I feel that every politician should have to have served in the military? No. But I would prefer if the one's who didn't would listen to people who have proficiently dedicated their lives to military leadership. This is just our detached democratic lawmakers attempting to rally the liberals as the whole healthcare thing put a sour taste in most moderates' mouths.

 

I wonder what us conservative constitutionalists will freak out about next. I'm sure the next insult to our freedoms and/or our national security is only one hearing away.

 

I've given up expecting the "representatives" of the people to actually do anything except pander for votes! In my opinion if urinating on tombstones in Arlington would garner more votes and greater control of our lives, Lasix would be in great demand on Capitol Hill! I served through the VN era , the Carter days on up to the Clinton days and while I'm proud to have served I am disgusted with the "Kalifornization " of the military as a result of the "Balkanization" of this country by our "representatives" .

[Hemegroup]

Is that a Village People mustache on your avatar? Where's the leather chaps?

 

I own no leather chaps, sorry if that disappoints you. Village People were a bit before my time, although I have worked concrete demo.

[Hemegroup]

I wonder what us conservative constitutionalists will freak out about next. I'm sure the next insult to our freedoms and/or our national security is only one hearing away.

 

I hope you actually DO get to truly feel such an insult. I seriously, most definitely, hope that you do.

[3GeronimoPA]

I hope you actually DO get to truly feel such an insult. I seriously, most definitely, hope that you do.

 

I interpret that as, "I hope tomorrow you lose your right to free speech" and "I hope that our government takes the guns away from our Soldiers and gives them flashlights".

 

Your comment is un-American as it comes. Liberal nut-jobs only care about the constitution to the extent that it protects your right to push your liberal agenda. Here in Colorado PETA members are running around schools dressed as a bloody elephant and harassing kids in protest of Ringling Bro.'s Circus. The liberals are all for protecting their 1st amendment there at the expense of traumatizing our children. The same types of liberals are school teachers recommending that people infiltrate the "Tea Party" and make them look dumb in order to subvert the Party's exercise of their 1st amendment. It's comical that people make such little sense and sad that they do so under the position that they are the "educated" and "forward thinking" ones.

 

Additionally, lose the repetition. Are you studying at the "School of Redundancy School" or what?

[istat2]

I own no leather chaps, sorry if that disappoints you. Village People were a bit before my time, although I have worked concrete demo.

 

Then you don't know what you missed (lol)

[Hemegroup]

I interpret that as, "I hope tomorrow you lose your right to free speech" and "I hope that our government takes the guns away from our Soldiers and gives them flashlights".

 

Your comment is un-American as it comes. Liberal nut-jobs only care about the constitution to the extent that it protects your right to push your liberal agenda.

 

Actually, you should instead take it as that I hope that you one day understand how it feels to be forced to feel like and be treated as a second-class person/soldier.

 

"liberal" agenda LOL. On and on, the same old wordage, eh? Can't think of anything more creative? I see your "liberal agenda" and raise you "respect to all people". Your play, I'm sure you'll come up with some quasi-psuedo-intellectual-attempt.

 

'liberals' ... why is it that the people who use this term, are usually white Republicans who think that they're 'christians'? I guess people who see homosexuals as normal people have to be considered 'liberal', for some reason? In fact, it's the accusers who are the 'liberals', because they proclaim that they live by 'the bible', which right there requires a 'liberal' dose of ... denial! Turn away from creation in seven days and clothing of mixed fabric, not to mention the condoning of slavery, slaughter of infants, and oppression of women, but better hold on to the gay thing! lmao

 

My parents call themselves 'Christians', but they raised me with the understanding that the book they consider to be holy, 'the bible', was written a long time ago and has to be considered in context. They also raised me to love and respect all humans beings equally. I owe them a great deal for that.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/28/congress.military.gays.policy/index.html

[3GeronimoPA]

Liberal. It fits well. You mean your parents taught you to use the bible to make you feel good but ignore anything about it that is intended to effect your morality or lifestyle. All smoke and mirrors you are. I spent 2 years in the Army's PA school. I know all about being a second class Soldier. As far as citizen... I never would condone that. That's just your unwarranted caricature of the position that I hold. Don't worry, I'm not going to try and convince you me and my minions aren't the boogie man. BTW, nice stash.

[Hemegroup]

Liberal. It fits well. You mean your parents taught you to use the bible to make you feel good but ignore anything about it that is intended to effect your morality or lifestyle. All smoke and mirrors you are. I spent 2 years in the Army's PA school. I know all about being a second class Soldier. As far as citizen... I never would condone that. That's just your unwarranted caricature of the position that I hold. Don't worry, I'm not going to try and convince you me and my minions aren't the boogie man. BTW, nice stash.

 

Why do you feel I have to be homosexual to treat homosexuals with respect and equality? It must be how you were raised. You might try explaining yourself to the rest of the majority of America (what was it, 78%?) who feel the same way I do. Or maybe they're all homosexuals too? Surely they must all be in on 'THE AGENDA' lmao

 

Smoke and mirrors indeed, from your cotton/polyester blends, as you call your wife (who surely must be required to have long hair) to remind her that she's not allowed to 'pray' at the dinner table. What, shellfish tonight? Hey, all in a days work! Or 7 ... or something.

[3GeronimoPA]

Can you read English and coherently gather the stated point? Where did I state one needs to be homosexual to treat homosexuals well? I shouldn't expect any less as you have twisted my position from the moment you got on here. This is why no one on here has taken you seriously. I suppose the other 22% are on these forums...

[3GeronimoPA]

If anyone other than Heme thinks I stated EVER that one needs to be gay to respect gay people please point it out. I'm obviously suffering from amnesia

[CAdamsPAC]

Actually, you should instead take it as that I hope that you one day understand how it feels to be forced to feel like and be treated as a second-class person/soldier.

 

"liberal" agenda LOL. On and on, the same old wordage, eh? Can't think of anything more creative? I see your "liberal agenda" and raise you "respect to all people". Your play, I'm sure you'll come up with some quasi-psuedo-intellectual-attempt.

 

'liberals' ... why is it that the people who use this term, are usually white Republicans who think that they're 'christians'? I guess people who see homosexuals as normal people have to be considered 'liberal', for some reason? In fact, it's the accusers who are the 'liberals', because they proclaim that they live by 'the bible', which right there requires a 'liberal' dose of ... denial! Turn away from creation in seven days and clothing of mixed fabric, not to mention the condoning of slavery, slaughter of infants, and oppression of women, but better hold on to the gay thing! lmao

 

My parents call themselves 'Christians', but they raised me with the understanding that the book they consider to be holy, 'the bible', was written a long time ago and has to be considered in context. They also raised me to love and respect all humans beings equally. I owe them a great deal for that.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/28/congress.military.gays.policy/index.html

 

 

Here you go again! As a BLACK MAN I 'm calling you out for your application of your bias as fact. I use the term liberal to describe those who have appointed themselves the authority to decide how one should speak, write or anyway express their views on issues of personal liberty and governance of this country. You brand people you don't know as racist, homophobes, "Christians" with negative conotations because they hold views contrary to yours, a typical liberal tactic attacking the person not their ideas. I find it even move repulsive because many of those you attack have commited their lives to protect your right to trash their views. What sacrifices have you made for this country???You and many others are willing to accept the murder of the unborn yet decry the actions of our Soldiers on the field of battle and undertake efforts to the detriment of the military establishment because it's what you think is best in spite of the true experts saying just the opposite. Love blather about love and respect for all human beings "equally", yeah when an individual's behaviors violate my personal morality there is no such requirement and neither your nor anyone else has the right or standing to demand I change to meet your in my opinion diminished standards. I'll stand firmly with Nate and others like like him because they are commited to doing what's best for something bigger than their own personal agenda and is my opinion directly opposite from folks like you!!

[3GeronimoPA]

Oh and Heme, I'm black too. Doc Adams, I'll be calling you once I arrive.