Advice for College Freshman with goals of PA School

[Peabody]

My daughter will be college Freshman this year with hopes to get into PA school in 4 years.  Can any of you give her any advise on what looked good on your application that helped you to get into PA school besides Good grades and high GRE score.  She is taking a phlebotomy class and hopes to work as a phlebotomist part time thru school but what other things did you do that schools were impressed with.  Thanks so much for your time.

 

[newton9686]

Phleb can be hard to find work. My fiancé found work as an intern in clinical research, but it isn't super easy. Also, it's not as much as impressing schools as naturally growing into a future healthcare professional. That being said, the best way to do that in my opinion is serving other people, which also impresses schools. Best of luck.

[DiggySRNA]

Everyone who was accepted to PA school have some form of direct patient experience but not many have adequate amount of community service or other NON-health care exposure.

 

From speaking to many adcoms throughout this process, many of them like to see individuals who are well-rounded; community service, internships, extracurricular activities, and hobbies among many other things.

 

Phleb is great experience because she will be exposed to a wide variety of patients (especially those who are terrified of needles).

 

Best of luck to her.

[rev ronin]

Go to medical school, or have an actual non-fictitious reason not to.  Don't become a PA to spend more time with patients: we don't.  Don't become a PA to shave more time off of how long it takes to become a provider: residents really do practice medicine. Don't become a PA because you want to have better work life balance or more time for your kids: there is no functional difference between what an MD can do and what a PA can do.  If you've shadowed MDs and PAs and other healthcare providers and are still convinced by your direct observations rather than something you read about in a magazine article or book that you want to become a PA, then by all means, work towards that rather than medical school.

[RobinAtkins]

As a student who just got accepted to PA school, I think what stood out for me the most was my volunteering/internship at the hospital, volunteering at a church free health clinic for the homeless, and most of all being a medical scribe. As a medical scribe in the ER I have learned SOOO much about medicine, medical terminology, differential diagnoses, and how to write patient charts. I would say it is one of the best experiences because you are working directly with the doctors. Especially at a teaching hospital you get to learn new things with the residents and listen to them discuss the patients story, history, physical exam, lab/imaging study results, and possible diagnoses based on these. Also, the ER I work in is a trauma, stroke, and STEMI receiving hospital so I get to see these a lot. But also as rev ronin above said, you need to really want to be a PA and have a good reason for it. They can tell when you aren't completely sure or you give the typical answer that everyone gives.

 

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[newton9686]

Take what rev has to say with a grain of salt. He thinks everyone under 30 should go to medical school. But he makes some valid points. PA shouldn't be a choice because of a magazine or the more time with patients thing. Honestly at 17 she should be exploring all careers in healthcare, not just trying to be a PA student in 4 years.

[Dabba]

Do volunteer emt in your town if you can.

 

Network with professors and heathcare providers. Use it to shadow or volunteer. Use these connections for letters later.

 

 

My biggest mistake was not being as social with my professors as I could have been

[rev ronin]

Take what rev has to say with a grain of salt. He thinks everyone under 30 should go to medical school. 

Sort of. Almost anyone under 30 will be better off financially and in freedom terms, in the long run, by going to medical school.

 

For me personally, I will benefit from the expanded scope of practice that all sorts of 30-40 year old clinicians with 10+ years of experience and no upward mobility will be agitating for.  It would be unethical of me to NOT warn them of their impending well-prior-to-retirement career stagnation, but I'll be happy to take advantage of their labors.

[MyNameWasUsed]

As much as I respect and like Rev, I do strongly disagree with his mentality that if you're under 30 you should go to med school. Med school is a huge sacrifice. Most people give up their 20s and early 30s for it. On a standard timeline to become a practicing physician, the earliest you can become one is at age 29 and that's for primary care residencies. 

[rev ronin]

As much as I respect and like Rev, I do strongly disagree with his mentality that if you're under 30 you should go to med school. Med school is a huge sacrifice. Most people give up their 20s and early 30s for it. On a standard timeline to become a practicing physician, the earliest you can become one is at age 29 and that's for primary care residencies. 

On the standard timeline you're referring to, doctors practice medicine at age 26, not 29. Yes, if you go to med school and do a 3 year residency you don't get to be an attending until you're 29, but a PA never gets to be an attending ANYTHING.  Perma-resident seems to be the best we can hope for.  PA school is more intense than med school, but shorter.  First year post-PA school is less intense than Internship and residency, and you definitely get paid more as a new grad PA.  Medical school requires no HCE.

 

Thus, while there may be no direct comparison between PA and MD career paths, comparing graduation from PA school to residency completion is far from helpful.  Sure, a resident has to work more and gets paid less than a new grad PA, but after a couple of years practicing medicine as a resident, that new-attending has their own medical license, a big fat salary with which to tackle that debt that only a few PAs will ever match (yes, surgical subspecialty PAs can beat pediatricians in salary), and the legal freedom to go wherever and do whatever they want in medicine that is, yet again, never going to be matched by any PA.

 

The far better time comparison is between PA school and medical school graduation: both interns and new grad PAs are newly minted professionals, treating patients on their own with minimal oversight and often waaay over their heads.

 

What I don't get is how some PAs (people I like, respect, and otherwise agree with) don't understand this.  I'm seriously curious about this: Of those of you, (and it's not just you, MyNameWasUsed) who count 'practicing medicine' as starting at the end of residency, did none of you work alongside residents or in teaching hospitals?  Three of my 10 rotations involved working with residents in teaching hospitals--Surgery, Emergency Medicine, and Cardiology--so I got to see how off-service rotations worked, how hellish Intern year was, and how things kind of evened out after that.  Didn't make me want to go through that with them, but it gave me a great deal of respect for how much independence and judgment are required of residents.

[ChasingTheDream]

Just explain to your daughter it's a marathon, not a sprint. Focus on getting good grades and enjoying her college experience. There's a lot of time for her to accumulate hours and volunteer in the community.

 

Rev has a lot of good points. I've shadowed solely in teaching hospitals and the residents get to do a lot. If they weren't wearing IDs and asking so many questions, I would have had no idea who was the PA and who was the resident.

[MyNameWasUsed]

On the standard timeline you're referring to, doctors practice medicine at age 26, not 29. Yes, if you go to med school and do a 3 year residency you don't get to be an attending until you're 29, but a PA never gets to be an attending ANYTHING.  Perma-resident seems to be the best we can hope for.  PA school is more intense than med school, but shorter.  First year post-PA school is less intense than Internship and residency, and you definitely get paid more as a new grad PA.  Medical school requires no HCE.

 

Thus, while there may be no direct comparison between PA and MD career paths, comparing graduation from PA school to residency completion is far from helpful.  Sure, a resident has to work more and gets paid less than a new grad PA, but after a couple of years practicing medicine as a resident, that new-attending has their own medical license, a big fat salary with which to tackle that debt that only a few PAs will ever match (yes, surgical subspecialty PAs can beat pediatricians in salary), and the legal freedom to go wherever and do whatever they want in medicine that is, yet again, never going to be matched by any PA.

 

The far better time comparison is between PA school and medical school graduation: both interns and new grad PAs are newly minted professionals, treating patients on their own with minimal oversight and often waaay over their heads.

 

What I don't get is how some PAs (people I like, respect, and otherwise agree with) don't understand this.  I'm seriously curious about this: Of those of you, (and it's not just you, MyNameWasUsed) who count 'practicing medicine' as starting at the end of residency, did none of you work alongside residents or in teaching hospitals?  Three of my 10 rotations involved working with residents in teaching hospitals--Surgery, Emergency Medicine, and Cardiology--so I got to see how off-service rotations worked, how hellish Intern year was, and how things kind of evened out after that.  Didn't make me want to go through that with them, but it gave me a great deal of respect for how much independence and judgment are required of residents.

 

I'm starting PA school in two months so I havn't been exposed to working with MD residents. I agree with you that on a standard timeline that a MD starts practicing at age 26 when residency begins. From a financial standpoint MD will most of the time make more and I get that. However, as people always say, money isnt everything right? I feel that it's just a difference in values for me right now. I want to live my 20s and early 30s. Could I have gone to medical school? Yeah, but I just did not want to regardless of financial means or autonomy. My friends that graduated with me in 4 years all started their young professional lives already, making 60-80k a year living in big cities like LA and Chicago. They'll continue to do this for the next 8 years. If i went to medical school I wouldn't be able to essentially start my life like they did until im 29/30. MD school is not the same as working at a accountant firm or working as a financial analyst at Pepsi such as my friends are. They go to work, work the 40 hours, and that's it. There's no homework. There is no studying. There is no exams. There is no Step 1 or Step 2 for them. It's just a difference in values. I don't care to make $400k/year or to be top dog in the healthcare team. 

 

To get back on track, I think OP's daughter is making a great choice. I wanted to go to MD school until the summer after junior year. After 4 years of college and the constant grinding, studying, and never really being able to "turned off", it made me question do I really want to continue doing this for another 8 years? But the next 8 years will be twice as hard at the minimum maybe even 3 times as hard because it is medical school after all. Residency didn't seem appealing to me at all. 60-80 hours of work per week for 3-5 years....???? The answer was easily no thanks for me. 

[EMEDPA]

those of us who were traditional PA school applicants started later than the md folks, because in addition to a BS degree we also had a professional training program of 1-2 years duration and a few years of HCE before starting pa school. avg age in my class was 35. at 27 with 10 yrs of hce I was one of the youngest in my program. I gave up my 20s getting hce and training and all of my 30s bouncing around mediocre jobs before finding a few in my 40s that make me happy and give me appropriate autonomy and scope of practice. 20 years in I am happy to be a PA, but the first 15 years or so was very rough. long hours, long commutes, poor scope of practice and minimal respect. took a long time to claw my way out of that. wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.

[Monte]

Rev attempts to depress this whole forum with his med school is better posts weekly.. don't let his regrets persuade anyone who wants to become a PA.

 

I'm 23 and in PA school right now. I'll have less debt, practice medicine as I have always wished, and be making great money at such a young age versus if I had gone to medical school.

 

Have your daughter ace science classes.. consider picking up a double major to show that she can handle a heavy schedule.. and find medical experience! Also, get those shadowing hours in.. they are often more difficult to find than you would think.

[Maverick87]

What does "giving up your 20s/30s" really mean?

 

Serious question.

 

What else would you like to be doing? Many people that I know were able to find mates in med school, PA school, etc. I didn't, but I still traveled a lot on vacation (both while in PA school and in the military). You get summers off in med school so you'd likely have time to "live your 20s".

 

I'm not saying that I favor going to medical school. I chose PA school and I don't regret it. It was the right decision for me personally.

[rev ronin]

Rev attempts to depress this whole forum with his med school is better posts weekly.. don't let his regrets persuade anyone who wants to become a PA.

 

I'm 23 and in PA school right now. I'll have less debt, practice medicine as I have always wished, and be making great money at such a young age versus if I had gone to medical school.

You ascribe a negative motive to me inappropriately and against overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  I'm glad that you are so certain of yourself at 23 and before you've even done what you say you want to do for the rest of your life.  In case it helps your perspective, I have a child a few years older than you.

 

I'd love to hear what you think in ten years, whether things turned out as rosy as you are so certain they will, whether you're happy with your limits, and how you like answering to MDs who are younger than you.  I'm afraid absent that perspective of time and working in medicine, you won't really be able to ascertain whether my cautions were appropriate or not.

 

Know that it would bring me a great deal of sadness for you, or anyone else, to write me in ten years and say "You were right, I should have gone to med school in my 20's instead of PA school".  I don't want to be right; I want people to go to the right career in medicine for the right reasons, and be happy with their choice over the whole duration of a career in medicine.

[Monte]

What does "giving up your 20s/30s" really mean?

 

Serious question.

 

What else would you like to be doing? Many people that I know were able to find mates in med school, PA school, etc. I didn't, but I still traveled a lot on vacation (both while in PA school and in the military). You get summers off in med school so you'd likely have time to "live your 20s".

 

I'm not saying that I favor going to medical school. I chose PA school and I don't regret it. It was the right decision for me personally.

 

That's a good question.. and I think everyone has their own opinion.

 

To me, PA school frees up the several years that would have gapped my alternative medical school life. Years with much less money to start life (work towards a house..money for going out, have nicer "things"..etc.). Sure you can have a life in medical school, it's just not a life that I wanted. Those who are okay with that life, great for them!

[Monte]

 

 

Know that it would bring me a great deal of sadness for you, or anyone else, to write me in ten years and say "You were right, I should have gone to med school in my 20's instead of PA school".  I don't want to be right; I want people to go to the right career in medicine for the right reasons, and be happy with their choice over the whole duration of a career in medicine.

 

Rev we certainly understand your intentions; you're concerned and feel as though you can be the guy to warn people.. save them trouble perhaps. It's just that I see it so often.. you coming off as the "I told you so" guy. Saying stuff like..."Go to medical school, or have an actual non-fictitious reason not to.." just sounds pompous and overly-opinionated. 

 

We're posting to help a guy's daughter.. not to start that fight every time..

[PAGuy55]

Not everyone cares enough to want the attending status or the responsibility. It's just a job. People in medical school attend because they want that doc status and that consumes their life. Not everyone wants that or cares enough about a job for that. 2 years of grad school is more than enough for me. Work to live not live to work. I have so many other interests, friends, family outside of work.

 

People who are PAs that urge med school made the wrong choice for a career in my opinion. All the PAs that I know love their job and wouldn't trade shoes with a doc for anything.

 

Tell her to maybe land a PRN healthcare job that actually touches patients. Phlebotomy is not much contact. Maybe part time EMT or CNA would do it. Take basic sciences and earn As. Really pay attention in A and P. High GPA is super important. GRE is not very important. Maintain close contact or get into a fun research project with a professor who can write a good academic rec letter. Same goes for a clinical letter at their job. Shadow PAs in different areas of medicine.

[Monte]

Not everyone cares enough to want the attending status or the responsibility. It's just a job. People in medical school attend because they want that doc status and that consumes their life. Not everyone wants that or cares enough about a job for that. 2 years of grad school is more than enough for me. Work to live not live to work. I have so many other interests, friends, family outside of work.

 

People who are PAs that urge med school made the wrong choice for a career in my opinion. All the PAs that I know love their job and wouldn't trade shoes with a doc for anything.

 

Tell her to maybe land a PRN healthcare job that actually touches patients. Phlebotomy is not much contact. Maybe part time EMT or CNA would do it. Take basic sciences and earn As. Really pay attention in A and P. High GPA is super important. GRE is not very important. Maintain close contact or get into a fun research project with a professor who can write a good academic rec letter. Same goes for a clinical letter at their job. Shadow PAs in different areas of medicine.

 

That... is a good response!

[mw1n5d4]

My daughter will be college Freshman this year with hopes to get into PA school in 4 years. Can any of you give her any advise on what looked good on your application that helped you to get into PA school besides Good grades and high GRE score. She is taking a phlebotomy class and hopes to work as a phlebotomist part time thru school but what other things did you do that schools were impressed with. Thanks so much for your time.

Please, look into D'Youville College and Gannon University.

 

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