treejay Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Have any of you PAs had any success submitting an application for a position that is listed for NP (no mention of PA in title or description), to where you got the job? Wondering if this could be fruitful or just a waste of time. As I conduct a search for my first job, I have seen many that are NP only. Much fewer are PA only. Many are also NP/PA either/or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcaringpa Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I've done it in desperation before, and to no avail. Usually they're looking for an NP due to the specialization (peds, oncology, etc), BUT if you have the experience in the field you're applying for, I would apply.. Maybe your resume will change their mind :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 couldn't hurt. the worst they can say is no and you are out the price of a stamp or the time to enter the info online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2013 I have done this many times and almost always get an interview only once was I flat out turned down and it had to do with the way billing was set up yes apply yes pursue it---- many times it is lack of education that prevents people from realizing the PAs are better then NPs (after all we are just assistants and they are providers.... said in sarcastic tone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I agree, I do it all the time. Sometimes employers think that a PA has to have their SP attached at the hip. Gently educate them and go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Most employers I have found feel that either are interchangeable. What I have run up against is the degree creep of wanting M.S. only, regardless of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 OK, so this is just mho. PAs started out as BPAS. NPs, as far as I Know, have always been masters with 2-3 years practice experience in between making them "seem" superior. This, in part, is why I would like to see an expansion of fellowship opportunities. The national association is concerned by"degree creep" and not losing track of the original mission, which is understandable, but I keep seeing laments from PAs who feel unprepared for their first job or have difficulty finding one. Part of this may be the result of insufficient or the wrong type of HCE. The PA profession needs to distinguish itself from NPs who, despite all protestations to the contrary, are competition. Also, more and more NPs are getting doctorates (online, of course). The PA profession needs to keep up our get left behind. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Oxymoron isn't it? Your experienced PA's (greater than one or probably two decades) are mostly BS, unless there was some other reason to pursue the Master's, yet the employers are for the most part (generalized statement, no offense) limiting their app pool to those without a great deal of experience yet have the MS. I wish to Hade's I could just say "Here's the cash, you're not going to teach me anything in getting a traditional PA MS degree that I haven't already learned from my BS program, and give me the darn degree". Now, the BS->MS route incorporates things that I'm not sure that I ever wanted to learn, much less use. It's always about the $$$, so here's the darn money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 i believe you mean hell and damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 14, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2013 OK, so this is just mho. PAs started out as BPAS. NPs, as far as I Know, have always been masters with 2-3 years practice experience in between making them "seem" superior. nope, nps started out with certs then went to as then bs then ms now dnp. they have just done degree creep faster than us. I know many nps without an ms. There used to be a 400 hr cert. level womens health np program in los angeles. closed about 6 yrs ago. link to info on that program at ucla: http://www.womenshealthnp.org/ it also used to be that a pa who was an rn could take 1 class in adv. nursing theory to become an np. that option went away probably 25 years ago. I used to work with a pa/np who did just this to get rx rights in ca when pas didn't have them. of course as soon as he completed his class pas got rx rights but he still wrote his rxs as an np so he didn't require cosig for charts with rxs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Thanks for the np history , emdpa. So I guess the real story is that nps are moving faster and more aggressively to assert their profession. The PA profession, I think, could do more to communicate the PA mission to providers, payers and regulators. And that mission needs to include more than just being mid level primary care providers. If the PA profession doesn't define itself, then someone else will. I like to think of the PA as an adjunct to the physician, providing additional hands, picking up additional workload, and offering complementary knowledge and experience. An experienced PA is a colleague to the sp, working beyond the capacity of generic "mid level provider." The distinction may seem small to anyone who thinks of the profession as subservient or who is satisfied to receive increased pay for filling in doing mundane tasks. As an example, should an emd PA be limited to fast-track or verticals when studies have shown they are capable of full emergency department care (taking the next patient up) without compromising patient safety or quality of care? Personally, I would like the profession to strive to these higher goals and higher level of recognition. Full disclosure: As stated in earlier posts, I am not a PA and am well beyond the age of becoming one, but have studied the profession and have a daughter entering pa school in 2014. I believe that the profession needs to work diligently to expand its role and that changes occurring during the next several years (health care reform) will offer both opportunities and risks that can't be ignored. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetNavyPAC Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 A lot of the newly graduated FNPs I meet and talk to, when you get them in comfortable surroundings and really have a frank and open discussion, will admit that they don't feel that their programs adequately prepared them to function at a decent level. My mind often boggles at the sheer lack of clinical hours in many of their programs. Several (the really honest ones) have lamented - and resented - the inordinate emphasis their programs placed on research and theory, when the vast majority of them were in the programs to go out and practice clinically. One nurse I worked with in our Chest Pain Center a few years ago came back to work a shift right after her boards and told me that her exam was HALF nursing theory and research/administration. Half! More than a few of the NPs I talk to also lament the degree-creep their national leadership has foisted upon them - especially the Master's NPs that have been practicing for a while. "Secure from rambling rant. Set normal underway watch." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Having many friends in the nursing profession I would echo a lot of what's been said here concerning the NP degree and it's evolution. Another aspect that I've been informed of via said RN friends is that the push for the NP to be a doctorate has a lot to do with profit (surprise, surprise) and they feel there should be "tracts" in the NP programs for those desiring a clinical focus and those more geared towards administration or research. I whole heartedly agree that the PA profession needs to do a better job marketing itself. My hope is that this won't have to include a mud throwing style campaign against NP's but rather a less opaque set of guidelines, job descriptions, definitions, etc. for PA's vs NP's. My fear is that we might have to throw a little mud to compete especially in areas where the profession is less established. I'd love to get insight from a more experienced PA here, do you think one of the ways we'll need to distinguish ourselves from NP's in the coming years will be by not only highlighting our strengths but also shedding light on the large disparity between a PA's clinical education and that of an NP's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I think the way to distinguish ourselves is to become health care professionals who practice autonomously, are responsible for the care we provide, do not require a physician "supervisor" and are able to bill independently from a physician. We need to loosen the tether that ties us to a physician and thus ties our hands in advancing the profession. We need advanced residency programs that will allow us to become the type of provider I am suggesting......a profession that stands on its own. As I've said before in posts: PAs have the capability to be providers similar to the independent DPM and OD, who undergo rigorous training in their fields and practice within that scope. There is no reason why we must remain dependent practitioners. We have proven our worth and studies have proven we are safe and competent providers. I am especially adamant about this today as I just found out my clinic is recruiting an NP and won't consider a PA because of "billing issues". I am having a conversation tomorrow with the director regarding the clinic being an equal opportunity employer and will be suggesting they open up the pool of applicants so we have a well-rounded choice of who gets hired. Should I broach the subject of bias and prejudice? After all, this is an Indian tribal clinic and history tells us the prejudice against the Native people has been harmful.......... does anyone get the irony of it all???? Knots in my stomach but I am going forward with the discussion.....ever so gingerly but succinctly and will lay out the reasons why to consider a PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 P.S. I would love it if a slew of PAs sent the director their resumes and apply for the NP job. www.ihs.gov and follow the links. Careers Health Professions Openings NP Michigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Paula, what a great idea! I'll send in my resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I just asked if they'd consider a PA for all their NP postitions, and sent my resume. Let's see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 P.S. It's the LVD opening in Watersmeet, MI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I talked to the Health Director today and they will consider a PA...but....because we are not eligible for Meaningful Use incentives they will lean toward an NP so they can get the incentives. Wouldn't it be cool if 100s of PAs apply and no NPs? I can dream on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I talked to the Health Director today and they will consider a PA...but....because we are not eligible for Meaningful Use incentives they will lean toward an NP so they can get the incentives. Wouldn't it be cool if 100s of PAs apply and no NPs? I can dream on. How did this ever happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Wait, meaningful use is not dependent on NP vs PA. It is instead a list of criteria that needs to be met in a practice where certain issues are addressed. That makes no sense to me that an NP would be better suited to attest to meaningful use over a PA. As long as you get the pertinent information and document correctly, PAs and NPs can both contribute. EMEDPA, tell me if I'm wrong? (Cause you know everything!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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