Can I get into PA school

[Torshi]

Background:

Texan/Caucasian

Degree: B.S in Neuroscience - Expected graduation May 2013 (Graduating at 19 years old)

cGPA: 3.7

sGPA: 3.5

 

EC's/Work Exp:

-------------------------

Undergraduate Neuroscience Research: (9 mos - 270 hrs)

Undergraduate Teaching Assistant: (9 months - 135 hrs)

Shadowed 2 primary care physicians - (10 mos - 420 hrs)

Emergency Room Volunteer: (9 mos - 100 hrs)

Shelter Volunteer: (4 months - 80 hrs)

Construction Co.: Supervisor Assistant - 1 year 3 months

-----------------------------------------------------

Also, do I start applying starting April 17th??? I need to take the GRE....when do interviews take place usually during the cycle? Also, don't most schools require a lot of clinical experience and that volunteer/shadow hours don't count. But, I feel like I see some with not much exp, yet get in?

 

Any advice would be appreciated!

[rev ronin]

Can you? Yes.

 

Should you? Absolutely not. Background in research and community service like that? And complete lack of responsible patient care experience? You're a perfect fit for med school.

[Torshi]

Can you? Yes.

 

Should you? Absolutely not. Background in research and community service like that? And complete lack of responsible patient care experience? You're a perfect fit for med school.

 

Thanks for the response and I know everyone tells me that, but it just doesnt interest me to spend that much time in school. Also how can I get in when almost every program requires a lot of clinical exp? Ppl say I can get in but I only have volunteer/shadowing exp.

[UGoLong]

You are obviously a unique person. You could stand some real patient contact experience before you dive into something that may or may not be for you. I would definitely spend some time with PAs to be sure.

 

Good luck.

[Torshi]

You are obviously a unique person. You could stand some real patient contact experience before you dive into something that may or may not be for you. I would definitely spend some time with PAs to be sure.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you for your response, but I've always been attracted to the med field, I had interest in med school years back, but I decided that furthering my education towards med school is not for me. I would rather pursue and MPA, MBA or of the alike etc down the road due to personal interest. I feel like being a PA will provide me with the healthcare exp I wanted without the years of unwanted schooling while also being still young having time to volunteer abroad, pursue higher education of interest. I'm not willing to make the med school sacrifice.

 

With my background is there any chance I could get in? Considering I don't have a GRE score, and I plan on taking it sooner or later, I have too soon considering the app opens April 17th....

 

Schools that don't require GRE that I'd be willing to apply to:

1.) AT Still University, Arizona School of Health Sciences

2.) Drexel University Hahnemann

3.) Eastern Virginia Medical School

4.) Hofstra University

5.) Loma Linda University

6.) Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences - Boston

7.) Northeastern University

8.) University of Colorado - Denver

9.) Oregon Health & Science University

10.) Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

11.) Saint Louis University

12.) Samuel Merritt University

13.) Seton Hill University

14.) Stony Brook University

15.) Texas Tech University Health Science Center

16.) University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey

17.) University of Pittsburgh

18.) University of Texas - Pan American

19.) University of Texas Health Science Center - San Antonio

20.) University of Toledo

21.) Western University of Health Science

22.) Western Michigan University

 

I'll most likely apply to more

[rev ronin]

... it just doesnt interest me to spend that much time in school.

 

Then go find something else to do with your life, because every day in medicine is a learning experience. Your desire for instant gratification is not a sufficient reason for someone with (as you admit) very little experience, to be in PA school.

[Torshi]

Then go find something else to do with your life, because every day in medicine is a learning experience. Your desire for instant gratification is not a sufficient reason for someone with (as you admit) very little experience, to be in PA school.

 

I understand it's an everyday learning experience, but so is life in general, but I'm personally not willing to put forth 7-11 years post-undergrad to become a doc. That's just not my personality. I like the aspect of being a PA and what their job consist of and the post-training they can receive. I'd feel satisfied at the end of the day.

 

The reason why I ask regarding my exp is simple. Most or at least some individuals have only scribe exp and were accepted which is similar to shadowing, and quite relevant to my exp as shadowing and also volunteering in the ER.

[EKR007]

Honestly, I would take the GRE. I feel like limiting yourself to schools that don't require the GRE could be a short sighted decision.. it really isn't that difficult of a test and is not hard to score above the 50 or 60th percentiles, which is what I've found the majority of schools are looking for. You have plenty of time between graduation and summer to study and take the exam, and the stores come in pretty quickly. Especially since your direct health care experience is a little low, a stellar GRE score could really help you stand out. I hope this helps! You and I are both Neuroscience major seniors with the exact same GPAs! Best of luck to you!

[Torshi]

Honestly, I would take the GRE. I feel like limiting yourself to schools that don't require the GRE could be a short sighted decision.. it really isn't that difficult of a test and is not hard to score above the 50 or 60th percentiles, which is what I've found the majority of schools are looking for. You have plenty of time between graduation and summer to study and take the exam, and the stores come in pretty quickly. Especially since your direct health care experience is a little low, a stellar GRE score could really help you stand out. I hope this helps! You and I are both Neuroscience major seniors with the exact same GPAs! Best of luck to you!

Thank you and good luck to you as well.

 

Quick question: Since the App opens on April 17th. When are the earliest interview invites sent out? What is considered a late application submission? Would a GRE test date in late June be considered late?

[EKR007]

I asked a really similar question because I didn't know whether to apply before graduation or after when my final grades were in, and what I was told was that the first CASPA mailing occurs in June, and having your application 'verified' during June/July is fine for consideration for admission. And from what I have heard/read, the earliest interviews occur in mid august. However, because there is a wide range of due dates for CASPA schools, beginning in September and going through March, there is a really wide interview range. You can send you GRE scores the day of the test and mine were received by the schools I sent them to between 15 and 20 days.

[Torshi]

I asked a really similar question because I didn't know whether to apply before graduation or after when my final grades were in, and what I was told was that the first CASPA mailing occurs in June, and having your application 'verified' during June/July is fine for consideration for admission. And from what I have heard/read, the earliest interviews occur in mid august. However, because there is a wide range of due dates for CASPA schools, beginning in September and going through March, there is a really wide interview range. You can send you GRE scores the day of the test and mine were received by the schools I sent them to between 15 and 20 days.

 

Thanks for the info!

[Torshi]

I decided I'm going to apply to these schools that don't require a GRE early. And take the GRE in late June and apply to additional schools if needed.

 

· UTSA

· UTPA

· Texas Tech

· Western University Health Science Center

· Wichita State University

· University of Toledo

· Touro – Nevada

· Samuel Merritt University

· Seton Hill University

· Quinnipac University

· PCOM

· Pacific university

· Pace University – Lenox Hill Hospital

· Mercy College

· Drexel University

· Hofstra University

 

All require rather minimum healthcare exp in which I surpass there recommendation and average GPA. Hopefully things go well for these schools.

[marktheshark89]

You might want to look up the actual requirements of those schools before you apply. I know Quinnipiac has a minimum 2,000 patient contact hours cut-off to even be considered (it says this on their website and I know from personal experience having interviewed and been accepted there). So you'd basically be wasting your time and money applying there, and probably several others on that list also. If you are going to apply this year without any patient contact experience or PA shadowing, prepare to be rejected. In fact, to be honest your unwillingness to get any true patient contact hours and lack of PA shadowing are quite off-putting, and don't be surprised if you are questioned on it during interviews.

[Torshi]

You might want to look up the actual requirements of those schools before you apply. I know Quinnipiac has a minimum 2,000 patient contact hours cut-off to even be considered (it says this on their website and I know from personal experience having interviewed and been accepted there). So you'd basically be wasting your time and money applying there, and probably several others on that list also. If you are going to apply this year without any patient contact experience or PA shadowing, prepare to be rejected. In fact, to be honest your unwillingness to get any true patient contact hours and lack of PA shadowing are quite off-putting, and don't be surprised if you are questioned on it during interviews.

 

You're right, I'm surprised I missed that on the Quinnipiac website. I'll mark that off the list, but I did look at individual program requirements and the ones I looked at so far require either about 200-300 hrs exp, and or even practically none. I'm not trying to get off as someone who is trying to avoid HCE. I plan on applying to the schools within my realm I suppose. Regardless I'll most likely get an EMT cert just to keep me busy during the year off and knowing the possibility of not getting in.

[marktheshark89]

Getting an EMT cert would be great! Another thing to keep in mind is that CASPA differentiates between patient contact and related healthcare experience. Patient contact meaning that you are directly caring for a patient (EMT, RN, CNA, medical assistant, etc), while related healthcare experience means that you are working in healthcare but not directly caring for patients (usually volunteering unless it involved substantial patient care would fall here). Also, there are separate sections for research and shadowing. Looking at your above experience, I'm not sure that you would have anything that involves direct patient contact, which is usually what programs are referring to on their websites when they list requirements for hours. I'm not familiar with the requirements of all the programs you are interested in, but its just something to keep in mind.

 

Also, on your application somewhere you should list that you are planning to do an EMT cert. Some programs have hour requirements but they can be completed up until the time the program starts and do not need to be completed at the time of the application. If you list the EMT cert somewhere at least they will know that you are planning to get more experience working with patients, and that you will have a way to fulfill their requirements if in fact they do not require them to be completed at the time of application. Good luck!

[Just Steve]

Thank you for your response, but I've always been attracted to the med field, I had interest in med school years back, but I decided that furthering my education towards med school is not for me. I would rather pursue and MPA, MBA or of the alike etc down the road due to personal interest. I feel like being a PA will provide me with the healthcare exp I wanted without the years of unwanted schooling while also being still young having time to volunteer abroad, pursue higher education of interest. I'm not willing to make the med school sacrifice.

 

With my background is there any chance I could get in? Considering I don't have a GRE score, and I plan on taking it sooner or later, I have too soon considering the app opens April 17th....

 

Schools that don't require GRE that I'd be willing to apply to:

1.) AT Still University, Arizona School of Health Sciences

2.) Drexel University Hahnemann

3.) Eastern Virginia Medical School

4.) Hofstra University

5.) Loma Linda University

6.) Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences - Boston

7.) Northeastern University

8.) University of Colorado - Denver

9.) Oregon Health & Science University

10.) Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

11.) Saint Louis University

12.) Samuel Merritt University

13.) Seton Hill University

14.) Stony Brook University

15.) Texas Tech University Health Science Center

16.) University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey

17.) University of Pittsburgh

18.) University of Texas - Pan American

19.) University of Texas Health Science Center - San Antonio

20.) University of Toledo

21.) Western University of Health Science

22.) Western Michigan University

 

I'll most likely apply to more

 

You're 19 years old...when you say you considered med school "years back", when was that? Age 14? 16?

 

Do you understand WHY most PA schools require a bit more medical background before admitting you into their program? I think it is extremely important to conceptualize the rational of having students grasp a modicum of medicine (shadowing/volunteering for a couple of hundred hours is NOT sufficient) prior to attending a very short 2 year program that will allow the student to truly alter the health, safety, and quality of life for other humans. The notion of being willing to approach being a PA as just another of life's learning opportunities with no reflection upon the direct impact that your inexperience will have upon complete strangers is nauseating to me. I say this to you, in your situation, and to all inexperienced, young potential applicants. Med School is long because they direct their program to young applicants who NEED supervised experience....I am still shaking my head at your lead in of "who I am" with "Texan/Caucasian" I am quite curious why you feel so compelled that this will make a difference in your eligibility. Is it because Texans are superior or inferior? Is being caucasian an advantage or disadvantage in your eyes? What about people who are not either Texan nor caucasian? What advice do we give those people..would it read "Oh your stats are great but I'm sorry your race and state of birth puts you to the back of the line..."

 

If you like business and are interested in medicine, have you considered pursuing hospital administration degrees? Health care organizations are HUGE business and require business savvy people.

 

Speaking of business savvy...you list 22 schools that you are interested in applying to. I only applied to one so I am not sure of the application fees but mine was 100 bucks to apply. You are already planning to go over $2000 into the red before you even buy your first airline ticket, book your first hotel room, or buy your first meal while attending any interviews or for that matter, information sessions. Boggles my mind. Maybe it's because I grew up rural and poor and I'm just jealous...I don't know.

[Torshi]

Getting an EMT cert would be great! Another thing to keep in mind is that CASPA differentiates between patient contact and related healthcare experience. Patient contact meaning that you are directly caring for a patient (EMT, RN, CNA, medical assistant, etc), while related healthcare experience means that you are working in healthcare but not directly caring for patients (usually volunteering unless it involved substantial patient care would fall here). Also, there are separate sections for research and shadowing. Looking at your above experience, I'm not sure that you would have anything that involves direct patient contact, which is usually what programs are referring to on their websites when they list requirements for hours. I'm not familiar with the requirements of all the programs you are interested in, but its just something to keep in mind.

 

Also, on your application somewhere you should list that you are planning to do an EMT cert. Some programs have hour requirements but they can be completed up until the time the program starts and do not need to be completed at the time of the application. If you list the EMT cert somewhere at least they will know that you are planning to get more experience working with patients, and that you will have a way to fulfill their requirements if in fact they do not require them to be completed at the time of application. Good luck!

 

Thank you for the insight. Also, I was somewhat aware that they may be referring to direct patient-contact no matter what in which I will be at a disadvantage, but I'll try my luck and get a direct patient contact job while applying. Hopefully that will help.

 

Thanks!

[oregonpa]

Pacific also requires 1,000 hours. Don't apply to any schools that require any DPC hours because you don't have any it seems. If you don't meet a minimum requirement you will get rejected. Interviews will depend on individual programs. Few send out invites before their deadline, but that usually is indicated on their websites. And I also agree that you shouldn't get in to PA school this year. You should get some DPC experience and apply next cycle.

[Torshi]

You're 19 years old...when you say you considered med school "years back", when was that? Age 14? 16?

 

Do you understand WHY most PA schools require a bit more medical background before admitting you into their program? I think it is extremely important to conceptualize the rational of having students grasp a modicum of medicine (shadowing/volunteering for a couple of hundred hours is NOT sufficient) prior to attending a very short 2 year program that will allow the student to truly alter the health, safety, and quality of life for other humans. The notion of being willing to approach being a PA as just another of life's learning opportunities with no reflection upon the direct impact that your inexperience will have upon complete strangers is nauseating to me. I say this to you, in your situation, and to all inexperienced, young potential applicants. Med School is long because they direct their program to young applicants who NEED supervised experience....I am still shaking my head at your lead in of "who I am" with "Texan/Caucasian" I am quite curious why you feel so compelled that this will make a difference in your eligibility. Is it because Texans are superior or inferior? Is being caucasian an advantage or disadvantage in your eyes? What about people who are not either Texan nor caucasian? What advice do we give those people..would it read "Oh your stats are great but I'm sorry your race and state of birth puts you to the back of the line..."

 

If you like business and are interested in medicine, have you considered pursuing hospital administration degrees? Health care organizations are HUGE business and require business savvy people.

 

Speaking of business savvy...you list 22 schools that you are interested in applying to. I only applied to one so I am not sure of the application fees but mine was 100 bucks to apply. You are already planning to go over $2000 into the red before you even buy your first airline ticket, book your first hotel room, or buy your first meal while attending any interviews or for that matter, information sessions. Boggles my mind. Maybe it's because I grew up rural and poor and I'm just jealous...I don't know.

 

Thanks for the input. I noted my Texas/Caucasian identity for two reasons. One being a Texan because I am applying to Texas schools and if there are any advantages applying to Texas schools as a Texas resident in terms of PA schools required to accept a certain % of Texan applications like other healthcare programs in Texas. Secondly, I noted being Caucasion considering individuals who are URM are at a advantage compared to non-URMs by federal law.

 

As for applying, you're right, it will be quite costly, but I'm not the one paying for it and I'm obviously going to notify my parents as to if they would be willing to take the chance on me, paying for the app process in hopes I'll get in. If not, I will get a job and repay them, get a hands-on HCE job and rinse/repeat.

[Torshi]

Pacific also requires 1,000 hours. Don't apply to any schools that require any DPC hours because you don't have any it seems. If you don't meet a minimum requirement you will get rejected. Interviews will depend on individual programs. Few send out invites before their deadline, but that usually is indicated on their websites. And I also agree that you shouldn't get in to PA school this year. You should get some DPC experience and apply next cycle.

 

 

I posted a new list excluding pacific for that very reason. My new list includes schools in which I meet their minimum requirement and also they count shadowing/volunteer work as well. Obviously doesn't mean I could compare to others, but some schools even specifically state such as UTSA that HCE isn't even needed, but recommended.

[Howezer]

Not to sound very negative, and biased (I too am considered too young for PA school). But my honest opinion is you won't get accepted to PA school at 19y/o, especially with no HCE. The idea that you could be practicing medicine before you can legally drink is a bit astonishing. Once again, I don't mean to be a jerk, or be negative. I just think you need to think about things a little more. Shadow and get patient care, see if you can really handle dedicating your life to medicine. See if you can put aside your pride to help a patient who doesn't listen to you, and berates you for trying to help them. The PA admissions aren't fools, they'll be able to sniff out that you don't have experience & that you took the shortest means possible (skipping GREs etc). Acceptance rate for PA schools is 7-10%, and I'd would guess 99% of applicants will be older and more experienced then you. If your parents are willing to let you throw away 2k of their money on applications (plus travel expenses for interviewing) they aren't good parents. I'm guessing their wealthy parents lol, but they aren't teaching you to be fiscally responsible.

 

Sorry looks like I really did come across as an ***. Really felt I had to say it though

[Torshi]

Not to sound very negative, and biased (I too am considered too young for PA school). But my honest opinion is you won't get accepted to PA school at 19y/o, especially with no HCE. The idea that you could be practicing medicine before you can legally drink is a bit astonishing. Once again, I don't mean to be a jerk, or be negative. I just think you need to think about things a little more. Shadow and get patient care, see if you can really handle dedicating your life to medicine. See if you can put aside your pride to help a patient who doesn't listen to you, and berates you for trying to help them. The PA admissions aren't fools, they'll be able to sniff out that you don't have experience & that you took the shortest means possible (skipping GREs etc). Acceptance rate for PA schools is 7-10%, and I'd would guess 99% of applicants will be older and more experienced then you. If your parents are willing to let you throw away 2k of their money on applications (plus travel expenses for interviewing) they aren't good parents. I'm guessing their wealthy parents lol, but they aren't teaching you to be fiscally responsible.

 

Sorry looks like I really did come across as an ***. Really felt I had to say it though

 

All I read is assumption and judgement, no need for me to respond directly to your statements. Also, I'm not taking the shortest means, I explicitly stated I will take the GRE in late June and apply to following schools requiring it.

 

I understand my HCE may not be competitive to some, but I find that if one being a medical scribe can be accepted and there is no direct HCE, then my exp is no different from that of scribe perse. I'm not trying to be constantly defensive and unwilling to hear, but most responses are backed by personal bias.

[Just Steve]

The personal bias you feel is derived from the very fact that medicine is not practiced in a vacuum. It is a very personal art that deserves respect. Your plan to apply in a shotgun spray pattern based on the criteria of what takes the least effort/least experience is insulting to those of us who take this profession seriously and understand the implications that come from inexperience. This is not a research project in some lab. This is about human lives. There is no place for shortcuts.

[Torshi]

The personal bias you feel is derived from the very fact that medicine is not practiced in a vacuum. It is a very personal art that deserves respect. Your plan to apply in a shotgun spray pattern based on the criteria of what takes the least effort/least experience is insulting to those of us who take this profession seriously and understand the implications that come from inexperience. This is not a research project in some lab. This is about human lives. There is no place for shortcuts.

 

That and I think a lot of the underlying bias is against my age. There are many individuals who get scribe jobs and get accepted in which there job description does not differ with my exp, yet the only thing is just because of my age and willingness to pursue PA puts people off jumping to such bold conclusions that I'm either wanting the easy way out, trying to rush through etc, whatever the assumptions are. I simply so happen to be someone who graduated very early due to an opportunity presented to me, I took advantage of it and I'm here where I am right now. Just because I have minimal DIRECT HANDS-ON exp shouldn't be the main assumption as to thinking I'm not taking this whole field seriously, my exp does not differ from some who may have clinical non-direct hands-on exp as a scribe - already stated.

 

Knowing I may not have the hands-on clinical exp as some may state such as emt, cna, etc....But, I do have roughly 500 hrs of being in the field of medicine witnessing patient contact and some including hands-on, whether it may be the requirement for PA schools or not, I've been exposed ever since I started college at the age of 16. I took it seriously and I still do. I know it's not some "research project," and I find it somewhat demeaning that one would assume I'm not completely aware that it obviously involves human lives. I have eyes and a brain, and I'm quite aware of the field with the limited exp I have obtained. To assume I'm pursuing a shortcut is again an assumption simply based off my age and persistence to pursue being a PA early on in my life while also given I'm lacking direct HCE, but even some programs differ in their requirements specifically.

[Howezer]

Re-reading my post I didn't do a good job of saying what I meant. I think you should try to become a PA. I have the same plans, and I'm not much older than you (22). I won't be applying till next year though; the schools I'm looking at require 1000 HCE, so I want to be as competitive as possible when I apply. Bad college stats aren't holding me back either;cGPA 3.75, sGPA 3.58, honor's program, research papers, everyday I get emails about awards and silly ceremonies I'm invited to.

 

My take home point was meant to be; be ready to be rejected. I think you can be a great PA, and that you will make it (eventually). You have the ability to make yourself a very competitive applicant. Find the schools that you really want to go to, that will be best for you, and that will allow you to live a happy life. I suppose you could still apply this year, but my advice would be to wait. Or apply to only local schools, think of it as a practice run application year.

 

If it helps I'll say why at 22 I want PA > MD. The changes in healthcare seem to be targeting physicians, and the MDs I've talked to say being a physician will still be a great career, but there are so many uncertainties. I wouldn't have any support from my parents (fiscally or emotionally) so everything would be on me. As a PA I could practice earlier, ie make money sooner and invest it wisely. I know money isn't everything, but if I'm going to sacrifice my life to medicine, I'd at least not feel suicidal under 300k+ of debt for most my life. I don't worry about the 'glass ceiling' and lack of respect. There will always be people that don't respect me, and PAs still get to do amazing things in medicine, just have to know to stay within your scope of practice.

 

Hope this somewhat helped you Torshi. Sorry for my atrocious grammar and run on sentences. Had a 12 hour day at hospital, tutored, and then completed my own lab report >.<

 

I've researching PA and MD quite a bit (basically any free chance I get lol). So if you have any questions I will try to help. Sorry for my early assumptions and negative attitude (I'll use my fatigue as an excuse).