CornellSPA Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 This has been covered a great deal on this forum, but interesting to see the numbers of PAs/NPs/Docs that left clinical practice just in the 4th Quarter of 2021 -- https://www.healthgrades.com/pro/medical-specialties-losing-the-most-providers?CID=64embrdTINL-APP013123&elq_mid=9697&elq_cid=13610817&utm_campaign=PR_INL-APP013123w5-NHG-Default&utm_medium=email&utm_source=eloqua Addressing the healthcare staffing shortage. https://www.definitivehc.com/sites/default/files/resources/pdfs/Addressing-the-healthcare-staffing-shortage.pdf Healthcare workforce lost 333,942 providers in 2021. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/healthcare-workforce-lost-333-942-providers-in-2021.html Put your seatbelts on! 2023 is going to be quite the ride! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 That's pretty crazy but not surprising. What do you think will be the implications of this? On a personal note, I'm looking to get a new job at some point. Based on this info, I wonder if my better play is to find a job now before the sh*t really hits the fan. Or should I wait until the going really gets and give myself some real negotiating power? Or will this be another COVID 2.0 type scenery where hospitals/practices will do the counterintuitive thing and actually hire LESS people, lay off folks, AND cut pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkertdm Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Unless you spent the last few years doing online classes to get an NP, I’d say your negotiating power is dropping like a rock. Less MDs mean less “collaborators”, and in the eyes of administration a team based approach sounds more expensive than an independent NP. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33047352/ https://ldi.upenn.edu/our-work/research-updates/expanding-scope-of-practice-after-covid-19/ https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/combating-covid-19-and-advancing-the-nurse-practitioner-np-role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, thinkertdm said: Unless you spent the last few years doing online classes to get an NP, I’d say your negotiating power is dropping like a rock. Less MDs mean less “collaborators”, and in the eyes of administration a team based approach sounds more expensive than an independent NP. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33047352/ https://ldi.upenn.edu/our-work/research-updates/expanding-scope-of-practice-after-covid-19/ https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/combating-covid-19-and-advancing-the-nurse-practitioner-np-role I'm assuming you're replying to me. Good points and sad to think about after we've all put such time and effort into our PA careers. However, all your articles were written before the Q4 2021 Exodus of 55k NPs. (The first two articles were written Jan and Feb 2021 and third Aug 2020.) I'd be interested to see the input now. They also discuss the temp measures and whether these will be permanent, not that they actually are. It also likens PAs to NPs, not necessarily one over the other. What's the point in sharing the third link? It just talks about their efforts and encourages NPs to join and share the movement on social media. I will say that $99 for 60 nursing CE is hella cheap. I wonder about the quality if it's that cheap. Or is it because NP CE is subsidized? Thank goodness I have some negotiating power of my own in that I've significantly lowered my expenses and don't have to have a job and thus don't plan on accepting any crap offer and/or job anytime soon, especially for a company that lets admin make its provider-hiring decisions... Which is like everyone nowadays, so my options of workplaces are becoming quite limited. Lol Edited February 3, 2023 by SedRate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) I’m only 3 years out but I’m looking to go part-time this year; because doing clinical medicine full time isn’t it. I know many of my (mostly female) colleagues who aren’t even working or working very part-time after giving birth to their kid(s) Edited February 3, 2023 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 4 hours ago, iconic said: I’m only 3 years out but I’m looking to go part-time this year; because doing clinical medicine full time isn’t it. I know many of my (mostly female) colleagues who aren’t even working or working very part-time after giving birth to their kid(s) I went part time. It's been great. Def recommend. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 We have a new(ish) physician who is having a hard time moving fast enough to keep all her charts and messages and such caught up and, for the 4th time, I am covering her panel for a while so she can get caught up. Because she has been struggling her schedule is half of what constitutes a full schedule. It is GLORIOUS because I actually have time to practice medicine and help people out instead of running pillar to post with my hair on fire. I remember what helping people is like again. If I could have this schedule I'd stay a lot longer than the 3 more years it will take me to retire. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, sas5814 said: We have a new(ish) physician who is having a hard time moving fast enough to keep all her charts and messages and such caught up and, for the 4th time, I am covering her panel for a while so she can get caught up. Because she has been struggling her schedule is half of what constitutes a full schedule. It is GLORIOUS because I actually have time to practice medicine and help people out instead of running pillar to post with my hair on fire. I remember what helping people is like again. If I could have this schedule I'd stay a lot longer than the 3 more years it will take me to retire. That's great to hear. Not the struggling part but the time to practice medicine. I hope it lasts. I've had similar changes to my pace and it's refreshing. I no longer feel like a chicken with my head cut off trying to do the work of 1.5-2 PAs with minimal decompression time between sets of shifts. I can actually chart at the pace I like as well as sit with pts and staff. I have a renewed excitement for my work and why I got into medicine in the first place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I feel bad for all the new grad PAs. Often times physicians are not put under the same pressure to see as many patients and they have much higher bargaining power/job security not to get fired for not keeping up with the patient loads. It is completely unrealistic to expect new grads to see obscene amounts of patients which makes them feel defeated while in fact what they are asked to do should not at all be normal. The unfortunate reality is that it is the swim or sink world out there with APP jobs especially for new grads. Extensive training is basically non-existent for 99% of jobs so one really has to do their best in school and leverage the skills they have and go into the field(s) they feel most comfortable with 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, iconic said: I feel bad for all the new grad PAs. Often times physicians are not put under the same pressure to see as many patients and they have much higher bargaining power/job security not to get fired for not keeping up with the patient loads. It is completely unrealistic to expect new grads to see obscene amounts of patients which makes them feel defeated while in fact what they are asked to do should not at all be normal. The unfortunate reality is that it is the swim or sink world out there with APP jobs especially for new grads. Extensive training is basically non-existent for 99% of jobs so one really has to do their best in school and leverage the skills they have and go into the field(s) they feel most comfortable with Yep. I gotta think this may be part of the reason folks are leaving and yet the article mentions average age is in the 50s. In my experience with a handful of new colleagues who are new grads, they just kinda get by with minimal engagement from SP surgeons, which is pretty sad... I was fortunate and got a job in a growing practice that never had a PA so I had time to ramp up and make it how I wanted. My replacement walked into a firestorm; he rotated with me and knew what he was getting into and swam, but man, I feel bad for the guy as the surgeons were crazy busy and then COVID happened... Similar with my other replacement but he had no experience. My old surgeon asked me for tips on getting him ramped up. I told them they had unrealistic expectations and need to invest time and energy in him. I hope other SPs are as willing to reflect, ask for advice and/or open to suggestions regarding newbie PAs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted February 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2023 few thoughts Docs will always be the "chosen children" and they will take as much as they can get (in my system they got a 10-15% raise this year while PA/NP got nothing) New Grad NP's that did some DLO are dangerous - and need a full year of training - I think (hope) hospital systems realize this and stop hiring them New Grad NP are going to kill people and get sued.... the market will correct their lack of training eventually NCCPA needs to come up with a CAQ for IM and then advocate that it is better then NP and we should be independent AAPA needs to jump on this and have a national campaign to support Every PA needs to donate to their state PA group - change takes advocacy and that costs $$$ If some of this does not happen we could be in trouble.... Oh yeah and Primary care is about to implode and we are all pretty much screwed until admin realizes that senior PA are capable of running a full MD/DO panel and should be compensated for such.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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