Moderator ventana Posted January 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2023 Vacation skiing at my new favorite ski area. showdown. In MT stay in white sulfar at cabins. just like The big CO ski areas plus natural hot springs. Very cool old west town. All for <25% of the big CO ski area prices!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggySRNA Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Recently got back from 14 day cruise through the Panama Canal (NCL) in December which got me closer to completing every country in Central America except for Nicaragua and El Salvador. Hopped in a 4 day cruise last week to go scuba diving in the Bahamas. I usually vacation 5-8 times a year thanks to my PRN schedule. Haven't paid for a flight since 2020. Edited January 23, 2023 by Diggy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) On 1/18/2023 at 3:03 PM, Boatswain2PA said: I find this a little disturbing. Without a trace of judgmentalism, I wonder why it is that with an average salary 3x the national average, there seems to be such a feeling of impoverishment in these two posts. Maybe I'm wrong about that feeling, but it is what I read into them. Assuming Shakahoo is at beginning of career and, and RC2 towards the end of career....it begs the question of what other PAs can do to perhaps avoid being in the situation where vacations are unaffordable. Never felt the draw to go to Africa or India, other than perhaps Madagascar for diving. I've heard India also has terrific diving, but very hard to get tourist visa's for. Scandanavia would be a great trip! We just moved into our dream house....and the basement is stacked with drywall for me to finish! Was looking at insulation a few weeks ago, but we have trusses instead of floor joists. Still trying to figure out best sound insulation for that application. Let's say a PA-C makes $130,000 a year. You contribute 15% to your 403(b) plan ($19,500) That leaves you with $110,500 BEFORE taxes. Their spouse stays at home with the kids. Let's call that $55,000 per person before taxes. Modest Mortgage/Car-Payments/Taxes: $30,0000 a year. Groceries, Cable/Internet/Phone, Electric = $15,000 a year Pre-School for two children = $12,000 a year (the cheapest around by far). That is well over 50% of your take home pay right there. Factor in gas, clothes, home maintenance, birthday/holiday stuff, etc... (Oh let's not forget home heating oil - which at this point is roughly $400-500 a month x 4-5 months.) That leaves a couple thousand for a vacation - if you are not interested in saving any additional money. What am I missing? Edited January 23, 2023 by ShakaHoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 23, 2023 Administrator Share Posted January 23, 2023 $1k/month for Preschool AND a stay at home spouse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, ShakaHoo said: Let's say a PA-C makes $130,000 a year. You contribute 15% to your 403(b) plan ($19,500) That leaves you with $110,500 BEFORE taxes. Their spouse stays at home with the kids. Let's call that $55,000 per person before taxes. Modest Mortgage/Car-Payments/Taxes: $30,0000 a year. Groceries, Cable/Internet/Phone, Electric = $15,000 a year Pre-School for two children = $12,000 a year (the cheapest around by far). That is well over 50% of your take home pay right there. Factor in gas, clothes, home maintenance, birthday/holiday stuff, etc... (Oh let's not forget home heating oil - which at this point is roughly $400-500 a month x 4-5 months.) That leaves a couple thousand for a vacation - if you are not interested in saving any additional money. What am I missing? So, I accidentally erased my response detailing all my expenses. So to retain my sanity and spare everyone yet another verbose post of mine, my final numbers: $44k/y for a party of two. Plus theoretical $12k childcare. Let's say $4500/y for extra groceries/etc for kids cuz it's easy math. That's a cool $50k leftover for vacays, extra savings, whatevs. Your definition of modest is much different than mine, my friend. Edit: For anyone who can't seem to find any extra $, are interested in cutting expenses, and becoming financially independent, start here: Edited January 24, 2023 by SedRate Link to video 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 6:03 PM, ohiovolffemtp said: Some suggestions for the basement: even with trusses you can put insulation between them. Per the contractor, it's what does 90% of the sound absorption. Way more important than acoustic panels in the suspended ceiling. rather than putting flooring down, I did the epoxy pain with colored sprinkles then a clear coat. You can get this professionally done for $4-5/square foot or you can do it yourself if the concrete is relatively smooth. I used the Rustoleum kits, bought extra sprinkles, and did it for less than $500 for > 2,000 square foot. This also eliminates the potential for damage in the case of water problems. I painted the concrete walls rather than drywalling them. Where I had to drywall around the stairs, I put a 1x2 on its side on the floor & put the drywall on it. Again, it saves drywall damage in case you have a pipe break or water backup. If you're going to do a suspended ceiling, there are dimmable LED light panels that are the same size as suspended ceiling panels. They need an extra wire for the dimming, but not hard to do if you can do house wiring. Just had a birthday party here, about 35 kids in basement. Yeah, we will insulate for soundproofing! Walking on concrete floors kills my knees/back. When I'm out in my barn/shop all day I really know it. Planning on putting down laminate flooring with as much padding underneath as we can get. Basement is a full walk-out, so only back wall is full concrete and it's where mechanical spaces/storage is. Currently framing up the bottom concrete-portions of the side walls so I can better insulate and carry mechanicals in them (will have a full kitchen/bar downstairs eventually). Dimmable lights everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 2:45 PM, ShakaHoo said: Let's say a PA-C makes $130,000 a year. You contribute 15% to your 403(b) plan ($19,500) That leaves you with $110,500 BEFORE taxes. Their spouse stays at home with the kids. Let's call that $55,000 per person before taxes. Modest Mortgage/Car-Payments/Taxes: $30,0000 a year. Groceries, Cable/Internet/Phone, Electric = $15,000 a year Pre-School for two children = $12,000 a year (the cheapest around by far). That is well over 50% of your take home pay right there. Factor in gas, clothes, home maintenance, birthday/holiday stuff, etc... (Oh let's not forget home heating oil - which at this point is roughly $400-500 a month x 4-5 months.) That leaves a couple thousand for a vacation - if you are not interested in saving any additional money. What am I missing? I get it, average PA salary doesn't let people live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. It wasn't very long ago that our vacations were weekends away, and we packed our food. Once your kids get out of pre-school and your cars are paid off you will have a lot more discretionary money. When your HOUSE is paid off and you have NO debt is when you really get to enjoy it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said: I get it, average PA salary doesn't let people live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. It wasn't very long ago that our vacations were weekends away, and we packed our food. Once your kids get out of pre-school and your cars are paid off you will have a lot more discretionary money. When your HOUSE is paid off and you have NO debt is when you really get to enjoy it. Right... This is more along the lines of what I was saying. I am not crying poverty. But when I see friends with "business degrees" making 4-5x as much - it can be frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 8:21 PM, SedRate said: So, I accidentally erased my response detailing all my expenses. So to retain my sanity and spare everyone yet another verbose post of mine, my final numbers: $44k/y for a party of two. Plus theoretical $12k childcare. Let's say $4500/y for extra groceries/etc for kids cuz it's easy math. That's a cool $50k leftover for vacays, extra savings, whatevs. Your definition of modest is much different than mine, my friend. Edit: For anyone who can't seem to find any extra $, are interested in cutting expenses, and becoming financially independent, start here: Interesting/Entertaining video. I find it fascinating for a lot of reasons. The suggestion of riding a bicycle everywhere is funny. I live 20 minutes away from our hospital - and I am not sure how long of a bike ride that is - but assume I would be peddling for several hours in each direction. I also find it fascinating the guy is "retired" at 30 years old - yet is giving a lecture to a room full of people (do you think he is doing that for free?). I would bet you he is making far more money than a PA-C to give that presentation... I get it - live under your means, save, invest conservatively. We don't need 80 inch televisions or large pick-up trucks. But kids need pre-school and clothing, houses need heat, people need food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 By the way, the "retired" Mr. Money Mustache per Wikipedia - makes $400,000 a year annually from his blog. I think he is doing OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ShakaHoo said: By the way, the "retired" Mr. Money Mustache per Wikipedia - makes $400,000 a year annually from his blog. I think he is doing OK. MMM and other well-known contributors to the FI community often refer to the "retirement police" who criticize what the definition of retirement is. Interestingly, these FI contributors often talk about how much money they make after they "retire." Usually it's in the form of dividends but sometimes in the form of retirement ventures that end up making money, like MMM blog or speaking engagements or books they've always wanted to write. Edited January 26, 2023 by SedRate Added second paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, ShakaHoo said: Interesting/Entertaining video. I find it fascinating for a lot of reasons. The suggestion of riding a bicycle everywhere is funny. I live 20 minutes away from our hospital - and I am not sure how long of a bike ride that is - but assume I would be peddling for several hours in each direction. I also find it fascinating the guy is "retired" at 30 years old - yet is giving a lecture to a room full of people (do you think he is doing that for free?). I would bet you he is making far more money than a PA-C to give that presentation... I get it - live under your means, save, invest conservatively. We don't need 80 inch televisions or large pick-up trucks. But kids need pre-school and clothing, houses need heat, people need food. He's a proponent of reducing commute and vehicle costs, spending more time with family and in nature, increasing activity level. I remember when my spouse and our financial advisors laughed at me when I said I wanted to retire by 45. And here I am set to be financially independent by 40. I'll likely keep doing something in some capacity but it won't be because I have to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 26, 2023 Administrator Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said: Dimmable lights everywhere! I upgraded the 4xT12 fixtures in my exam rooms (2 each for 2 rooms) to flat panel dimmable LEDs. Gotta watch out on that, a lot of the dimmable LEDs need re- or new wiring, but these work fine without extra hassle. Essentially $100/fixture (and they've dropped 20% in the 10 months since) plus the hassle of installing them. Now, I can dim the room to 50% for migraine patients or ultrasound work--very slick. (I know this is about home stuff, but I did that with bulb replacements for existing fixtures years ago.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 12 hours ago, ShakaHoo said: But when I see friends with "business degrees" making 4-5x as much - it can be frustrating. Yeah, but in reality that's a small percentage of them. Most folks with "business degrees" probably earn less than the average PA. Of course, some of them can make upper 6 figures, 7 figures, or even 8 figures (like the CEO of the "nonprofit" Ascension Health who made $13 MILLION in 2019 while cutting nursing and medical staff to "cut costs"). Nothing preventing you from expanding into business as well. I read somewhere a long time ago that the "average" millionaire (back when a million was a LOT of money) had multiple income streams. I've worked hard to develop multiple income streams, and hope to retire in 9 years with passive income that about matches average PA salary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 Was curious, so quick google search:https://www.zippia.com/business-major/salary/ Average Business Major salary $50,670. Looks like $105,684 for MBA graduateshttps://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/articles/mba-salary-jobs Average PA salary $121,530.https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/physician-assistant/salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 13 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said: Yeah, but in reality that's a small percentage of them. Most folks with "business degrees" probably earn less than the average PA. Of course, some of them can make upper 6 figures, 7 figures, or even 8 figures (like the CEO of the "nonprofit" Ascension Health who made $13 MILLION in 2019 while cutting nursing and medical staff to "cut costs"). Nothing preventing you from expanding into business as well. I read somewhere a long time ago that the "average" millionaire (back when a million was a LOT of money) had multiple income streams. I've worked hard to develop multiple income streams, and hope to retire in 9 years with passive income that about matches average PA salary. Yep, there's really no income ceiling for business/sales. And that goes for anyone who goes the business/sales route including medical professionals who decide to become a hospital CEO or practice owner, etc. It's disturbing to see the figures of CEO income but not unsurprising since the US medical system is for-profit. I digress... Nice job on the work you've done to create multiple income streams. And glad to hear you take the time to enjoy yourself, e.g., vacation. We all should make sure to do the same/similar and give ourselves time to decompress and R&R in between working our tails off and day-to-day responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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