Seijou Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hey all, I'd really appreciate some input. I've been hunting for an EMT-B job without much luck. I have all my certifications. I've submitted 10 application packets (all certifications, h-6, resume, etc) and gotten 2 interviews. I did very well during the interviews and simply never got phone calls back, even though the Hiring Managers said they would call me. This process is very draining :saddd: I was consistent with my application follow-up and found out from both companies that I was not offered a position. I know the market is saturated with EMTs, but I'm doing everything I can to stand out. I have no prior EMT experience but I have a lot of experience interacting with people of all ages (young children to elderly) and backgrounds (different cultures, ethnicities, etc), and that is one thing I really emphasize to hiring managers whenever I get a chance. Even though it doesn't matter much in EMS, I do have a B.S. and I'm working on a Master's - I think it shows that I work hard academically. I follow up with my applications and I always dress to impress. I have no criminal record, and the only thing on my h-6 is one accident several years ago. What am I doing wrong? I hear about people getting jobs as EMTs, ER Tech, ICU Techs, OR Techs, Patient Care Techs, etc. all the time with little to no experience, yet in San Diego all of those positions are highly sought after and seemingly impossible to touch. Any advice appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted March 1, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2012 1) Move. Volunteer fire departments are looking for people who want to do patient care and are willing to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" (vs. the flip-flopped priorities that many young fire recruits come with), but they don't exist in urban or prosperous suburban areas. 2) Network. Most jobs, especially entry level jobs, are not assigned on the basis of merit, for reasons that are beyond the scope of this post, but on the basis of who knows who. Use that! Get to know people who know people who hire EMTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If you're getting interviews but not getting hired then you may need to look at your interviewing skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 My interview skills are just fine - please read the OP thoroughly. I can't move... I'm currently a student, with a lease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Bars Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Finding a job = hard. I suggest looking into non-traditional EMT jobs. For example, I work three evenings a week at a children's camp. I'm the evening medic. Kid's call me "the nurse" even though I'm not a nurse. There are lots of summer camp EMT jobs, so start thinking about that for summer. Other places that hire EMTs are casinos, first aid stations at events, ski lifts, parks with water slides, possibly some after school programs for kids, etc. Also, your EMT might help you get a job at an aide or "recreation counselor" at a nursing facility, rehab center, youth center or other place. This may not count as HCE hours, but its a start and might help you get an ER tech job next year. It is frustrating to spend money and time training for a job and then have a hard time finding that job. Don't give up! You'll find something. Good luck! P.S. Two schools told me that they would count the camp medic experience as HCE, though they encouraged me to also get some time on an ambulance or in an ER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 My interview skills are just fine - please read the OP thoroughly. We all think we're good interviewers...but there may be an underlying issue that you are unaware of. To by-pass this issue with such ease tells me you're not wanting to do a gut check of yourself. Wutthechris is just giving some advice, and if you're truly desperate for a job, an interview class would only make you that much more of a desirable job seeker. Take it for what its worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 We all think we're good interviewers...but there may be an underlying issue that you are unaware of. To by-pass this issue with such ease tells me you're not wanting to do a gut check of yourself. Wutthechris is just giving some advice, and if you're truly desperate for a job, an interview class would only make you that much more of a desirable job seeker. Take it for what its worth... Not everyone thinks they do well in interviews. Some people do well and some people don't, I know plenty of people who become very nervous during interviews and are aware of it. I think I did well during my interviews because I asked for feedback and criticism from my interviewers and they both told me they were impressed with my confidence, knowledge and positive attitude. This is not my first real job, so I've had interviews in the past. So please, trust me when I say something. I truly feel this is a part of my application that I'm not concerned about. I'm not sure what advice wutthechris is giving me. I stated this clearly in the original post, and I think it was just because he didn't read it carefully enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 1) Move. Volunteer fire departments are looking for people who want to do patient care and are willing to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" (vs. the flip-flopped priorities that many young fire recruits come with), but they don't exist in urban or prosperous suburban areas. 2) Network. Most jobs, especially entry level jobs, are not assigned on the basis of merit, for reasons that are beyond the scope of this post, but on the basis of who knows who. Use that! Get to know people who know people who hire EMTs. You're right. If I move out of this part of the country then I would have a better luck finding a job. However, I have a lot of responsibilities here (such as school, family) and sometimes it simply isn't as simple as getting up and moving. I understand the value of networking, but I have to disagree with you in regards to EMT positions not being given out on the bases of merit (if that merit represents the applicant's abilities). I'm not sure if you have experience with EMS, but a newly minted EMT-B knows nothing. A lot of things you need to do well as an EMT are hands on and experience based. People can, and do work as EMT-Bs for 5 years and still find that they are learning every day. And this is even though EMT-B is an "entry level job". You can be an EMT and work for a BLS service, or you could be an EMT and work on an ALS rig. However, the two EMTs maybe be of completely different caliber. So a seasoned applicant has a tremendous advantage over an unexperienced applicant. But I totally agree that who you know matters a whole lot... however "Get to know people who know people who hire EMTs" is tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Finding a job = hard. I suggest looking into non-traditional EMT jobs. For example, I work three evenings a week at a children's camp. I'm the evening medic. Kid's call me "the nurse" even though I'm not a nurse. There are lots of summer camp EMT jobs, so start thinking about that for summer. Other places that hire EMTs are casinos, first aid stations at events, ski lifts, parks with water slides, possibly some after school programs for kids, etc. Also, your EMT might help you get a job at an aide or "recreation counselor" at a nursing facility, rehab center, youth center or other place. This may not count as HCE hours, but its a start and might help you get an ER tech job next year. It is frustrating to spend money and time training for a job and then have a hard time finding that job. Don't give up! You'll find something. Good luck! P.S. Two schools told me that they would count the camp medic experience as HCE, though they encouraged me to also get some time on an ambulance or in an ER. Hey, this is really good advice. I'll look into it and see if I can find anything around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paprospect24 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What was the reason for them not offering you a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Maybe they see you as a person who is openly planning to move past the EMT level and they don't want to spend all the money to hire you only to have you move on. Dressing to impress, working on a Masters, scoring well in college all sounds like an over qualified candidate who has their eye on a bigger prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paprospect24 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Maybe they see you as a person who is openly planning to move past the EMT level and they don't want to spend all the money to hire you only to have you move on. Dressing to impress, working on a Masters, scoring well in college all sounds like an over qualified candidate who has their eye on a bigger prize. No company is a delusional enough to think that people plan on being career EMTs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 What was the reason for them not offering you a job? I'm not sure, I thought it was rude to ask so I didn't. EMS is a different beast than I'm use to... I held a job prior to this working in research and always had good relations with my supervisor and the people there. Whenever I was given an interview by the local universities here they were always very good about communicating with me. Both of these employers said they would call me back within a given time-frame and did not. I waited until after that final expected call date until I followed-up. I had to be fairly persistent to get into contact with those Hiring Managers. One told me that something came up and they aren't able to hire anyone at this time, I'm not sure if it was an excuse or not. The other just told me she had already hired 2 EMTs. It wasn't a matter of me waiting too long to check the status of my application because I was very prompt (Ie. If she told me she would call me by Wednesday of the next week, when I didn't hear from her I called her and left her a polite message first thing Thursday morning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paprospect24 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Its tough right now, I would follow up with everyone you have previously applied with and be persistent, don't worry about "bothering" them. To those who turned you down I would politely ask what you can do to become a better candidate. Also there is a million EMT companies around. Go in and apply in person, a lot will hire you on the spot if you get in touch with the right person. Know who you need to talk ahead of time. Also ask around, everyone you know and anyone you come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Maybe they see you as a person who is openly planning to move past the EMT level and they don't want to spend all the money to hire you only to have you move on. Dressing to impress, working on a Masters, scoring well in college all sounds like an over qualified candidate who has their eye on a bigger prize. I was really upfront with them and told them my career goals. But even though I plan (and really hope) to go to PA school in fall of 2014... I also showed them solid commitment in my previous jobs. They seemed to be okay with it. I explained why I was specifically interested in EMS and working as an EMT. I was able to relate that to growing as a healthcare provider and my goals of eventually working as a PA in the ED. I think they might have been just as comfortable with my position as any other EMT they might hire. I'm not sure of this, but this is what I think anyways. I tried to be reassuring that I wanted something stable until I start PA school. There is a really high turnover rate in EMS, a lot of the EMTs leave to go to medic school after they get enough experience (ie. 1 year requirement) or they use their EMT-B as leverage for firefighting. I always put "starting salary" under the salary desired portion of the application, I had a good idea of what I was getting myself into and I wanted to show that it wasn't about the money (although, jeez it'd be easier to live with more money). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paprospect24 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Also I think MaxCare and Care are hiring full time right now if you don't have apps in with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Its tough right now, I would follow up with everyone you have previously applied with and be persistent, don't worry about "bothering" them. To those who turned you down I would politely ask what you can do to become a better candidate. Also there is a million EMT companies around. Go in and apply in person, a lot will hire you on the spot if you get in touch with the right person. Know who you need to talk ahead of time. Also ask around, everyone you know and anyone you come across. I'm trying to do research on which companies I can apply for. A lot of people always tell me there are so many companies, but is there an actual registry that I can look up? The ones I know of in San Diego are: Care, Balboa, Express, Rural/Metro, AMR, Pacific, MaxCare, Xtreme Care, Schafer, AmeriCare. I'm just looking for IFT/BLS rigs (inter-facility transport) where I can get my foot in the door and start learning bedside manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Also I think MaxCare and Care are hiring full time right now if you don't have apps in with them... Funny you should mention - Just typed those two out in my last response. I already have an app on file with Care but they do 8 hour shifts which makes it a bit hard on my schedule (even though I have Friday, Saturdays and Sundays available to commit to work). The thing is Care requires you to do a 2 week orientation. It's Monday through Wednesday from 9AM-4PM each day, plus an additional 2 days in the field. I tried talking to a few of my professors at school but I couldn't make it work... I'm planning to submit an app with MaxCare at the beginning of next week. I recently made more flashcards to prepare for the interview scenarios/ protocol questions and I want to make sure that I've got them down before I go. But do you know if MaxCare will hire part-time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm not sure what advice wutthechris is giving me. I stated this clearly in the original post, and I think it was just because he didn't read it carefully enough. Yeahhh...ok. This is what you said: I did very well during the interviews and simply never got phone calls back, even though the Hiring Managers said they would call me. You stated an opinion about your interview performance and then mentioned you never got called back. I pointed out that your interviewing skills may be worth looking at(and, by implication, that your personal opinion may be wrong). What exactly did I not read carefully enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeahhh...ok. This is what you said: You stated an opinion about your interview performance and then mentioned you never got called back. I pointed out that your interviewing skills may be worth looking at(and, by implication, that your personal opinion may be wrong). What exactly did I not read carefully enough? If I'm telling you that my interviews went absolutely fine, then why would you point that out as the thing I might need to work on? It isn't exactly helpful. As I stated in the later posts: It's not the first interview I've had. I've had various jobs throughout college and always worked on my interviewing skills with mock interviews. I'm saying again, my interview portion is fine... please, It's the last thing I need to work on (I know there are other things that would be more worthwhile to spend time on at this point, like knowing all my mnemonics and county protocols). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If I'm telling you that my interviews went absolutely fine, then why would you point that out as the thing I might need to work on? It isn't exactly helpful. As I stated in the later posts: It's not the first interview I've had. I've had various jobs throughout college and always worked on my interviewing skills with mock interviews. I'm saying again, my interview portion is fine... please, It's the last thing I need to work on (I know there are other things that would be more worthwhile to spend time on at this point, like knowing all my mnemonics and county protocols). You don't get it but alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 You don't get it but alright. It's very clear, I heard corpsman as well. I gut check my interview skills all the time, that's something I don't need help with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Have you interviewed many people who are looking for EMS jobs? Have you ever worked for an EMS company and took note of what HR is looking for? Have you ever had in-depth conversations with hiring managers within EMS/EMT related jobs? Where/what do you draw on to formulate your idea of how an EMS/EMT interview is supposed to go? I can roll into a patient's room full of knowledge, ability, technique, answers to questions that the patient didn't even know they had. I can be dressed to the nines, present at the highest caliber of my peers but in the end, if I didn't make a connection with my patient, all my ability and bravado doesn't mean squat. If I misread a patient I might as well as not even enter the room You feel you rocked the interview. What I read from your posts is that you roll into an interview dressed to impress and ready to spout off mnemonics and protocols. I worked pre hospital care for several years for several agencies. I have never found an agency really interested in what I think I know about their particular system. That is what their field training officers are for. They wanted to know if I was someone that they could give directions and have those directions followed with little to no question. If they had the impression that someone may cause ripples in the pond...well...they aren't invited to go swimming. Like it or not, it's a "good old boys" network. They want an employee that they enjoy working with, a person they can relate to, trust, and to be blunt, manipulate. You come on this site, ask for opinions, then argue with, or try to change the minds of the people who gave their opinions. Just in this micro chasm of internet, you have painted a picture of someone struggles to get along when it's not along the same lines as your belief. There are times when it's best to simply smile, nod, and say "thank you for your input, is there anything else that you think may be important" or something like that and call it good. If you did such the bang up job that you think you did, if you truly connected with that metaphorical patient that I mentioned above, this thread wouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Have you interviewed many people who are looking for EMS jobs? Have you ever worked for an EMS company and took note of what HR is looking for? Have you ever had in-depth conversations with hiring managers within EMS/EMT related jobs? Where/what do you draw on to formulate your idea of how an EMS/EMT interview is supposed to go? Yes, I have interview people who are current looking for, and those who have stable EMS jobs (Both EMTs and Medics). No, I have no worked for an EMS company. I chat with Hiring Managers as much as I can. I have a good understanding of IFT and BLS. I get a lot of information from EMTLIFE (forums) and I have an old friend who was an EMT for 6 years. I have a good idea of what to expect, job duties (ie. What is it that a BLS rig does all day since they don't usually respond to emergent calls? This refers to my city, in different areas of the country EMTs generally have a larger scope of practice). During both interviews (at the end), I asked what the Hiring Managers look for, and what characteristics they think make a good EMT. I ask them if they can be honest and give me constructive criticism. I also ask what I can do to strengthen myself as an applicant, and I shake their hand... smile, and thank them for their time. I can roll into a patient's room full of knowledge, ability, technique, answers to questions that the patient didn't even know they had. I can be dressed to the nines, present at the highest caliber of my peers but in the end, if I didn't make a connection with my patient, all my ability and bravado doesn't mean squat. If I misread a patient I might as well as not even enter the room I agree. You feel you rocked the interview. What I read from your posts is that you roll into an interview dressed to impress and ready to spout off mnemonics and protocols. I worked pre hospital care for several years for several agencies. I have never found an agency really interested in what I think I know about their particular system. That is what their field training officers are for. They wanted to know if I was someone that they could give directions and have those directions followed with little to no question. If they had the impression that someone may cause ripples in the pond...well...they aren't invited to go swimming. Like it or not, it's a "good old boys" network. They want an employee that they enjoy working with, a person they can relate to, trust, and to be blunt, manipulate. You can take anything I say and spin it to make it sound like I'm a jerk. I could also have said I was dressed professionally and appropriately, but "dress to impress" does the job and people get what it means. Mnemonics and protocols are important... They are often interview questions (ie. APGAR) and if you're going to work in San Diego you should do SD protocol... It's the basics. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. If you visit the EMTLIFE forums and ask what you should do to prepare for an interview they'll tell you to know your protocols... I'm asking trying to get advice from this forum because there are people here who might have taken a route similar to mine. I'm not trying to cause ripples in anyone's pond. I can follow directions. I'm not trying to give them the impression "Hey... He's a real pain in the ***... Let's forget about it." And I understand what you mean about being able to trust. In a previous life I worked as a teacher's assistant for children from inner-city schools. I've also worked with a lot of VA veterans and elderly. So I've had people interaction and I understand the value of compassion and kindness - I just don't have the EMS experience. You come on this site, ask for opinions, then argue with, or try to change the minds of the people who gave their opinions. Just in this micro chasm of internet, you have painted a picture of someone struggles to get along when it's not along the same lines as your belief. Disclosure: This portrayal is meant not to offend anyone. Seijou: Hey guys, I don't have interviewing problems. Aside from that, can you give me any tips? Person 1: Dude, you might have interviewing problems. Seijou: Hey man, seriously, I think I'm okay with the interview. Person 2: He's right man. Red flag... Interview problems. Seijou: Seriously, guys. I think my interview is fine. Can we let it go? Person 1: You just don't get it! That's how it feels from my shoes. Every time I'm trying to defend myself I feel like a bigger jackass because I try to add examples to support my statements. If I don't agree with someone, it's okay to argue a bit. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. There are times when it's best to simply smile, nod, and say "thank you for your input, is there anything else that you think may be important" or something like that and call it good. If you did such the bang up job that you think you did, if you truly connected with that metaphorical patient that I mentioned above, this thread wouldn't exist. I agree. When those times come I'll do that. The whole "this thread wouldn't exist" though is a bit of a low blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randito Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 How are your swimming skills? I worked as a beach lifeguard in SD for years and know that most of the agencies are getting ready to run their academy and do summer hiring. Maybe not what you had in mind, but most agencies will pay you a bonus for already being an EMT and you may get some pretty amazing medical calls that you would never see doing patient transport. You'd probably make 50-100% more than working on a box and it would allow you time to set up an EMT job for the fall. Also, I conservatively used my lifeguarding hours when I applied to PA, but had hospital experience as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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