Anyone else bothered by this?

[famofu]

I'm not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but does it bother you that SP in private practices basically make money off our labor? They make passive income just by hiring us and we doing all the work.

I guess it also works that way in hospitals and corporate, but it's the CEO making money off my labor, not my SP.

[DukePAS]

It was my understanding that all jobs work like this. Unless you own the company, someone is making money off your labor or they wouldn't hire you.

 

 

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[newton9686]

Yeah, this is true for every employee. You only get hired if you are worth something and you are only worth something if you bring in more money than it cost to keep you. Basic business 101.

[CAAdmission]

Bother me? Hell no! You have stumbled onto my escape plan.

 

I intend to develop the "PA Assistant" profession. I will hire a bunch of these mid/low level clinicians and pay them 30% of what I make to do the same work. I only need to hire 4 to simultaneously drop my workload to 0 and increase my income 20%.

[ventana]

no problem in theory

problem lies in the fact that we are only paid about 50% of a PCP to do the exact same job....

[TWR]

maybe the real question was how much the CP makes compared to what they pay as salary. The percentage is way too high in favor of the CP in most cases. Of course take into consideration the benefit package which if comprehensive can be as high as 25% of your salary.

[BruceBanner]

Unless you are a business owner or independent contractor of some sort, your employer is making profit off of you. That's why an employee exists; to do labor and increase production and thereby profits more so than could be achieved by a sole proprietor.

 

Part of the reason why the PA profession has grown so much in recent years is that we are "cheap" medical labor compared to docs. We do equivocal work in most settings, for 1/2 or less the pay.

 

You cant hate the game, it will drive you insane. Just utilize your high income wisely. 

[papub]

One HUGE difference. You are not JUST an employee, in our case, you are a slave. An indentured servant could buy their freedom-so far, you can not. Not even sure if your own specialty or state organization would be for it, even if you could? We have to change our paradigm. Let me explain.....

The flip side to being an employee is that you learn the business you are in and can COMPETE someday if you do not like the way you are treated. You can ask for a partnership or start that store, or electrical contracting business, or graphics design firm and do BETTER than the dumb jerk that would not make you a partner. We can not. We are the ONLY profession that is totally controlled by another. We are forced to always need someone to "supervise" and delegate to us, regardless of how competent we get. Hell, you can't even retire and give flu shots at COSTCO on your own. That's just silly. LPNs, pharmacists and RNs can. 

Time to look at full practice authority/responsibility. Support those who support raising us. The AAPA is actually looking at this now. 

[newton9686]

One HUGE difference. You are not JUST an employee, in our case, you are a slave. An indentured servant could buy their freedom-so far, you can not. Not even sure if your own specialty or state organization would be for it, even if you could? We have to change our paradigm. Let me explain.....

The flip side to being an employee is that you learn the business you are in and can COMPETE someday if you do not like the way you are treated. You can ask for a partnership or start that store, or electrical contracting business, or graphics design firm and do BETTER than the dumb jerk that would not make you a partner. We can not. We are the ONLY profession that is totally controlled by another. We are forced to always need someone to "supervise" and delegate to us, regardless of how competent we get. Hell, you can't even retire and give flu shots at COSTCO on your own. That's just silly. LPNs, pharmacists and RNs can. 

Time to look at full practice authority/responsibility. Support those who support raising us. The AAPA is actually looking at this now. 

 

 

While I agree with you message that we need more autonomy, do not be confused, we can start our own practices as a PA. I know several who have and make damn good money doing it (because they provide better primary care than their colleagues). The only difference between a PA and MD/DO starting their own practice is we are required to retain a SP to endorse us. Now that means different things in different states. However, here in NC there are no co-sign laws. All you have to do with them is meet him/her twice a year (a round of golf will suffice). 

[WanderlustPA]

Yes, I am bothered by it, especially since I get my collections data. I'm making roughly 20% of what I collect. Yes, there is some overhead like malpractice insurance, my MA, front desk staff, business cards, the facilities, etc, and in my practice the SP reviews all charts, so I do feel they should get paid for that time. But exactly how much of that remaining 80% does that take up, and how much of it is just straight passive income to the owners? I'm actually considering having a discussion with the President of the practice to see if I could get a higher split. The problem lies in the average salary of a PA. If they're already paying me more than average, why should I make even more still? This probably needs to be a nationwide movement for us to have any negotiating power in an individual practice. But for someone who came from business, and having earned 50% of what I brought in, yeah it bothers me!

[electric130]

I think it depends on how much profit they are making off of you and how fair you feel like your compensation is in balance with your work/life balance, hours and responsibilities.  This is where it really helps to know your collections (not billing) when negotiating.  My salary and benefits are right at 50% of collections.  I feel like that is fair, but looking at other offers I have received I do not think this is the norm.  Seems like most PAs are at 30-40% of collections, possibly family practice at 50% just because reimbursement is lower and typically lower volume.   

I work very hard and am at a high volume practice, and work pretty much independently, however I am making well above average per hour.  You also have to keep in mind most overhead is pretty set, no matter how much you bring in, for example covering MA salary or part of administrative costs, which makes a PA that collects a high amount even more profitable.   

 I do think it is fair for them to make a profit off of us, they do own the practice and review charts, etc....so honestly that does not bother me, however that percentage should not typically be as high as it probably is.  I agree that there needs to be more negotiating and ability to make more as our collections increase, you better believe that MDs are all over that.  I think like a post above said though the problem is that they go by "average" salary and it is really difficult to get a practice to break out of that mold, especially in corporate medicine.