surgipa Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I just received this today via email. I encourage everyone send an email to Mr. Pace, demanding an appropriate response to the nccpa. Dear , The AAPA has not taken an official “position” with regards to the recent scoring anomaly as we also do not yet have all of the facts. This is a very touchy subject for many reasons, so we are attempting to be prudent before taking a position, if taking a position is deemed necessary by AAPA leadership at all. As the certifying body for PAs, NCCPA does not involve AAPA in any way in their exam administration or scoring policies, so we unfortunately do not have any oversight of their practices. While we clearly do not approve of, support, or condone this anomaly or their handling of this issue, it is important for the integrity of the PA-C credential and certification in general that AAPA not take an official stance that NCCPA is somehow unfit to administer the exam or the credential itself. We are continuing to monitor the issue and will only act in the best interests of AAPA members and the profession as a whole. If you would like to discuss further or have any specific questions please let me know. Kind regards, Daniel Daniel Pace Director, CME Services American Academy of Physician Assistants 2318 Mill Road Suite 1300 Alexandria, VA 22314 P 571/319-4419 F 571/319-4420 E dpace@aapa.org www.aapa.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 While we clearly do not approve of, support, or condone this anomaly or their handling of this issue,.....AAPA not take an official stance that NCCPA is somehow unfit to administer the exam or the credential itself It seems this is their position... NCCPA made a bigtime procedural mistake and AAPA knows it, but AAPA will continue to support them as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 It seems they are staying noncommittal and "neither confirm nor deny"... I hope they sense the frustration that the PAs they represent WANT them to take a stance- and see that taking a position is an act in representing PAs, not solely representing the AAPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 It seems this is their position... NCCPA made a bigtime procedural mistake and AAPA knows it, but AAPA will continue to support them as a whole. My point EXACTLY. They have taken a non-position in this debacle and have chosen to not represent the PA profession as a whole. This confirms my earlier posts regarding the fact that the 2 organizations are inseparable and are in bed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 My point EXACTLY. They have taken a non-position in this debacle and have chosen to not represent the PA profession as a whole. This confirms my earlier posts regarding the fact that the 2 organizations are inseparable and are in bed together. No that is incorrect. This response does not lend itself to them "being in bed together". As I see it, AAPA is deciding to avoid confict "for the greater good" as AAPA sees it. IMO they feel open conflict with NCCPA will not be beneficial to the profession as a whole. Keep in mind these are PA's representing PA's right? So unless you're accusing PA's of acting for their own self interests, then maybe we can assume they are looking out for the majority? And of course being elected as they are, perhaps having someone (hint..hint...) campaign on a platform to suit your needs/others upset by recent events... would help to stir the pot? An election win might provide some sort of vindication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAstudentCanada Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I don't know what issue is being discussed here. What happened with the NCCPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 What a messy letter. The least the author could have done is send it to a good editor first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I don't know what issue is being discussed here. What happened with the NCCPA? Do a search on the forums; the nccpa has screwed up the PANRE scoring since jun 1. many people failed then found out months later that in fact they had passed. Many months of anguish, pain, self-questioning, studying, money spent, and time away from family and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 No that is incorrect. This response does not lend itself to them "being in bed together". As I see it, AAPA is deciding to avoid confict "for the greater good" as AAPA sees it. IMO they feel open conflict with NCCPA will not be beneficial to the profession as a whole. Keep in mind these are PA's representing PA's right? So unless you're accusing PA's of acting for their own self interests, then maybe we can assume they are looking out for the majority? And of course being elected as they are, perhaps having someone (hint..hint...) campaign on a platform to suit your needs/others upset by recent events... would help to stir the pot? An election win might provide some sort of vindication? Just because this is the "way you see it" does not make my statement "incorrect". You have your opinion, I have mine. The fact of the matter is this: the aapa has basically decided not to take a stand against the nccpa. Avoiding conflict??? What good does that do for the "greater good"? If they wanted to do something (which obviously they don't) they would stand up for our profession and take a stand against the certifying body. But alas, they won't. For some reason, they're afraid to piss off the nccpa. Just re-read their response above. My conclusion again: it's obvious to me that the 2 organizations are inseparable. My opinion. Which I'm entitled to just as you're entitled to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Just because this is the "way you see it" does not make my statement "incorrect". You have your opinion, I have mine. I agree that your opinion is valid and meaningfull. But I think I have the right to dispute it. I am interpreting the AAPA response differently then you. "The AAPA has not taken an official “position” with regards to the recent scoring anomaly as we also do not yet have all of the facts." Again, please see my original response to this thread regarding my interpretation of their stance on the credibility of NCCPA as a whole, and how they feel open disagreement would impact the PA profession.....It's right there in the AAPA letter. In english. They address risking the "integrity" of NCCPA as an entity by openly disputing it's handling of this matter...."While we clearly do not approve of, support, or condone this anomaly or their handling of this issue, it is important for the integrity of the PA-C credential and certification in general that AAPA not take an official stance..." So, you may be incorrect; They are not "in bed" together. You are not presenting evidence to support you're claim. Of course I haven't read thru the myriad of documents/press releases etc on the internet that could reinforce your claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 19, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 19, 2011 I thought the AAPA got to appoint a seat on the NCCPA board? That letter makes it sound otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I thought the AAPA got to appoint a seat on the NCCPA board? That letter makes it sound otherwise. Nope. The AAPA gets the "privilege" of suggesting qualified PAs to fill an open seat. The NCCPA BOT votes to appoint the candidate that they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I just received this today via email. I encourage everyone send an email to Mr. Pace, demanding an appropriate response to the nccpa.Dear , The AAPA has not taken an official “position” with regards to the recent scoring anomaly as we also do not yet have all of the facts. This is a very touchy subject for many reasons, so we are attempting to be prudent before taking a position, if taking a position is deemed necessary by AAPA leadership at all. As the certifying body for PAs, NCCPA does not involve AAPA in any way in their exam administration or scoring policies, so we unfortunately do not have any oversight of their practices. While we clearly do not approve of, support, or condone this anomaly or their handling of this issue, it is important for the integrity of the PA-C credential and certification in general that AAPA not take an official stance that NCCPA is somehow unfit to administer the exam or the credential itself. We are continuing to monitor the issue and will only act in the best interests of AAPA members and the profession as a whole. If you would like to discuss further or have any specific questions please let me know. Kind regards, Daniel Daniel Pace Director, CME Services American Academy of Physician Assistants 2318 Mill Road Suite 1300 Alexandria, VA 22314 P 571/319-4419 F 571/319-4420 E dpace@aapa.org www.aapa.org You got a response, but I understand that it was not the one you wanted. In my opinion, while there is evidence of the scoring errors, the AAPA has no more access to hard facts than you and I do, and have chosen a prudent and rational course. I don't think that AAPA deserves any criticism for not carrying the flag on this issue, and harassing the AAPA over this is not productive or particularly effective in effecting change at the NCCPA. I have a better idea. Instead of beating up on some middle management staffer at the AAPA, why don't you contact the folks on the NCCPA BOT who actually make these decisions and govern the operation of the NCCPA? http://www.nccpa.net/board.aspx Or contact the AAPA BOD members directly if you still want to express concern about this issue to the AAPA. http://www.aapa.org/about_aapa/governance/resources/item.aspx?id=2320#AAPA_Board_of_Directors They are the ones who govern the AAPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 You got a response, but I understand that it was not the one you wanted. In my opinion, while there is evidence of the scoring errors, the AAPA has no more access to hard facts than you and I do, and have chosen a prudent and rational course. I don't think that AAPA deserves any criticism for not carrying the flag on this issue, and harassing the AAPA over this is not productive or particularly effective in effecting change at the NCCPA. I have a better idea. Instead of beating up on some middle management staffer at the AAPA, why don't you contact the folks on the NCCPA BOT who actually make these decisions and govern the operation of the NCCPA? http://www.nccpa.net/board.aspx Or contact the AAPA BOD members directly if you still want to express concern about this issue to the AAPA. http://www.aapa.org/about_aapa/governance/resources/item.aspx? id=2320#AAPA_Board_of_Directors Actually, I have contacted the nccpa bot as you suggested. I'm way ahead of you on that. As expected, I haven't heard anything from them. As far as your insinuation that I'm "beatin up" some middle-manager at the aapa for answers: where do come off with that accusation?? I'm just looking for an explanation of what, if anything, is being addressed. Since when is sending an email considered harassment? As far as I can tell, I'm the lone wolf here...nobody else seems interested in making any contact with the nccpa or the aapa. Nobody is willing to stand up for what is right. This issue will die on this forum. For those that were directly affected by this error, sorry, but you're on your own. Good luck. This forum is nothing but a bunch of sheep. I won't fight this on my own. Don't bother trashing me...I won't be back to read what you write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 As far as your insinuation that I'm "beatin up" some middle-manager at the aapa for answers: where do come off with that accusation?? I'm just looking for an explanation of what, if anything, is being addressed. Since when is sending an email considered harassment? And you got an explanation. Encouraging folks to snow a powerless mid level AAPA staffer with e-mail, and "demanding" a response to the NCCPA from the AAPA? Call it what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjay1010 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The NCCPA screwed up, FACT. They admitted they screwed up, FACT. They are sorry they screwed up, FACT. They said they were sorry, FACT. Did they admit what went wrong, NO. Someone forgot to tell the scorers that there were only 240 questions not 300. Are they going to pay back people who spent money on a second exam and extra practice exams, Yes. ( I already got my check for signing up for a 2nd test.) Are they going to reimburse those who took classes, bought extra books, etc? NO. Are they going to reimburse those who spent hours studying, spent time away from family, cancelled plans, suffered anxiety, pain and humiliation by stating they failed? NO The AAPA should be trying to find out what happened. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to reimburse people for the money they put out because of thier error. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to pay something for those who suffered through THIER ERROR. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to fire the forgetful gentleman who forgot to tell the scores. $350 x 3000 PAs taking the exam each year = over $1million $80 x 15000 PAs paying for CME posting = over $1 million The AAPA should be doing more in this case to find us answers. Yes The NCCPA should be paying out for thier mistake. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 As far as I can tell, I'm the lone wolf here...nobody else seems interested in making any contact with the nccpa or the aapa. Nobody is willing to stand up for what is right. This issue will die on this forum. For those that were directly affected by this error, sorry, but you're on your own. Good luck. This forum is nothing but a bunch of sheep. I won't fight this on my own. Don't bother trashing me...I won't be back to read what you write. Slow down and take a deep breath. Not everything being done is published on this board. Calling people sheep just because they don't post what they are doing is uncalled for. I've made mult. contacts with both organizations but chose to not post or go into all the details on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 ... [irrationality edit]... please cancel my account. i want nothing to do with you people. There is a "wolf" out back... ... [hysteria edit] ... I won't be back to read what you write. No REALLY there is a "Big WOLF" out back... Histrionic personality disorder, a disorder characterized by dramatic, reactive, and intensely exaggerated behavior, which is typically self-centered. In psychiatry, histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is a disorder marked by shallow, volatile emotions with a pattern of emotionality and attention-seeking behavior. :heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The NCCPA screwed up, FACT. They admitted they screwed up, FACT. They are sorry they screwed up, FACT. They said they were sorry, FACT. Did they admit what went wrong, NO. Someone forgot to tell the scorers that there were only 240 questions not 300. Are they going to pay back people who spent money on a second exam and extra practice exams, Yes. ( I already got my check for signing up for a 2nd test.) Are they going to reimburse those who took classes, bought extra books, etc? NO. Are they going to reimburse those who spent hours studying, spent time away from family, cancelled plans, suffered anxiety, pain and humiliation by stating they failed? NO The AAPA should be trying to find out what happened. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to reimburse people for the money they put out because of thier error. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to pay something for those who suffered through THIER ERROR. The AAPA should be pushing the NCCPA to fire the forgetful gentleman who forgot to tell the scores. $350 x 3000 PAs taking the exam each year = over $1million $80 x 15000 PAs paying for CME posting = over $1 million The AAPA should be doing more in this case to find us answers. Yes The NCCPA should be paying out for thier mistake. Yes I appreciate that folks think that the AAPA has some sort of influence over the NCCPA, but the reality is that the NCCPA is an independent organization / corporation, governed by a Board of Trustees. The AAPA has zero influence over the affairs and decisions of the NCCPA. So, how would folks suggest the above be accomplished? The business and human resources decisions of the NCCPA are made by the BOT. As a certificate stakeholder, a PA's only recourse is through the NCCPA in this matter. A sternly worded letter from President Wooten will have no influence. The AAPA has no means or standing to "investigate" this matter. Don't get me wrong, this is a real "sh*t sandwich" of an issue, and I feel very bad for the folks whose lives and livelihood were disrupted by this CF. Heads should roll at the NCCPA, and I hope that the CEO Janet Lathrop and the BOT are taking this matter seriously to ensure that it never happens again. We pay a lot of money to the NCCPA (I'm in my fifth recertification cycle) for our "C", and we have a right to expect that they get it right 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 There is a "wolf" out back... No REALLY there is a "Big WOLF" out back... :heheh: surgipa = mikejfox = terryF? Surgipa's first post(and thread) was touting mikejfox's "let's start a class action" website. It makes sense. Maybe Banuchi can compare IP addresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I really don't know or care if its the same person... but I am tiring of being beat about the torso with the "you peoples" and threats of "never returning"... as if we care or will stop logging onto this site because this individual has "attachment issues," and delusions of grandeur interspaced with delusions of persecution... Reminds me of a old gurlfriend that used to throw tantrums and threaten to leave when ever she didn't get her way... I don't do threats well, so it didn't take long before I locked the door behind her and changed the telephone number during one of her threats/bluffs. The simple fact is that lots of folks are VERY "heated" about this issue and are actually doing things in their own way to affect change. Just because they aren't "attention whooores" about it doesn't mean that they are simply accepting this on their backs and/or knees.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I appreciate that folks think that the AAPA has some sort of influence over the NCCPA, but the reality is that the NCCPA is an independent organization / corporation, governed by a Board of Trustees. The AAPA has zero influence over the affairs and decisions of the NCCPA. So, how would folks suggest the above be accomplished? The business and human resources decisions of the NCCPA are made by the BOT. As a certificate stakeholder, a PA's only recourse is through the NCCPA in this matter. A sternly worded letter from President Wooten will have no influence. The AAPA has no means or standing to "investigate" this matter. Don't get me wrong, this is a real "sh*t sandwich" of an issue, and I feel very bad for the folks whose lives and livelihood were disrupted by this CF. Heads should roll at the NCCPA, and I hope that the CEO Janet Lathrop and the BOT are taking this matter seriously to ensure that it never happens again. We pay a lot of money to the NCCPA (I'm in my fifth recertification cycle) for our "C", and we have a right to expect that they get it right 100% of the time. This^^^^^^^^^ The AAPA has ZERO oversight or influence on the NCCPA. There is a collegial relationship between the organizations, as there is between the AAPA and PAEA, and they can make suggestions to each other, but all the AAPA could do was write a letter of disapproval.....that's it. Nothing else, and in my opinion, and yes, I know many on here will disagree with it, but a letter like that could do a lot more harm than good over the long run. I personally think that this could have been handled better by the NCCPA for sure. I think the AAPA is doing the right thing here (and I don't always think that of them) and that while this sucks, really it does, for those involved, and my heart goes out to them, it was a small number of PA's affected, and no one lost NCCPA certification. Anyway, I'm sure this will get flamed, so flame away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Bureaucrat Apologists here seem to be missing the point... If you are suggesting that it is justified for the AAPA (The one and only organization that is suppose to be squarely on the PA's side) to "remain silent" because they have no real influence over the NCCPA.... then you must be suggesting that its justified for PAs to remain silent to EVERY organization/entity that wrongs us because we have no real influence over them... So should we stop challenging the AMA, ANA, etc... when they say, or do things contrary to the health and advancement of the PA profession..??? Since we have no real influence over them. Can't have it both ways... Why did we fight MISSISSIPPI... As in everyday life, just because you can't make/compel someone do something/anything... isn't justification for not letting them know you are dis-satified. If this was acceptable, nothing would ever get done. No change would come. Hell, the civil rights movement wouldn't have occured because they would have remained silent and stayed home. So to those who are already critical of and fed-up with the actions of or lack of action of the AAPA... their refusal to publically state their position in this (?support of PAs?) is simply more of the same stuff they are fed up with. So to these folks... you are basically suggesting that they send money to the NCCPA (who's job is to protect the public from us) then hope and pray they get it right... and also send money to the AAPA (who's job is to advocate for the PA) while they sit silently by with PAs being abused/mistreated/mishandled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Bureaucrat Apologists here seem to be missing the point... If you are suggesting that it is justified for the AAPA (The one and only organization that is suppose to be squarely on the PA's side) to "remain silent" because they have no real influence over the NCCPA.... then you must be suggesting that its justified for PAs to remain silent to EVERY organization that wrongs us because we have no real influence over them... Can't have it both ways... NO, individual PA's CAN have influence. In fact, I would say that the only thing that ever has had substantial influence over any organization is a strong will, and like minded constituents of the organization working towards a goal.....That's my opinion at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Is what I am reading between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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