burnpac Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Bureaucrat Apologists here seem to be missing the point... If you are suggesting that it is justified for the AAPA (The one and only organization that is suppose to be squarely on the PA's side) to "remain silent" because they have no real influence over the NCCPA.... then you must be suggesting that its justified for PAs to remain silent to EVERY organization/entity that wrongs us because we have no real influence over them... So should we stop challenging the AMA, ANA, etc... when they say, or do things contrary to the health and advancement of the PA profession..??? Since we have no real influence over them. Can't have it both ways... Why did we fight MISSISSIPPI... As in everyday life, just because you can't make/compel someone do something/anything... isn't justification for not letting them know you are dis-satified. If this was acceptable, nothing would ever get done. No change would come. Hell, the civil rights movement wouldn't have occured because they would have remained silent and stayed home. So to those who are already critical of and fed-up with the actions of or lack of action of the AAPA... their refusal to publically state their position in this (?support of PAs?) is simply more of the same stuff they are fed up with. So to these folks... you are basically suggesting that they send money to the NCCPA (who's job is to protect the public from us) then hope and pray they get it right... and also send money to the AAPA (who's job is to advocate for the PA) while they sit silently by with PAs being abused/mistreated/mishandled. What I was suggesting was that I think that making a public spectacle of this issue is counterproductive given the current state of the relationship between the AAPA and the NCCPA. However, having attended many meetings of the four orgs (ARC-PA, PAEA, NCCPA and AAPA) as speaker and president, I would assure you and others that I'm quite certain that there has been significant high level communication between the AAPA and the NCCPA on this issue. Just don't expect to see it on the front page of PA Professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think this explains the (perceived) frustration of PAs re: the behavior of the AAPA. I am not in PANRE cycle this yr so I have no dog in this fight.... But there is a lot of emotion attached to the way the NCCPA early and late responses to the PANRE problem, as well as the AAPA's non-response. PAs WANT to feel like their organization- the only major organized voice they have- will use that voice. They want to feel that the guys/gals with the guns are going to speak up. They state (repeatedly on this forum, for whatever that is worth) that the AAPA is an anemic voice on issues that are important to many PAs. PLEASE understand that this does not negate the positive legislative moves the AAPA has facilitated. As a member of this forum I have been enlightened by the numerous PAs who have posted regarding issues which range from national to local, where they have contacted the AAPA, asked for help, and gotten either no response. Or worse...active antagonism. The question is, why not make a statement, publicly, on the AAPA site +/- mass email, that they are aware of the profession and will work with PAs to find a solution? Even if the AAPA has no formal power over the NCCPA, they DO have resources to COMMUNICATE with the NCCPA board. There is certainly cross-pollination of AAPA and NCCPA board members (I see at least one NCCPA board member who is a past pres at AAPA). The general consensus here is that the leaders of the AAPA and NCCPA run in the same circles. How true that is, we don't know. The answer seems to be that the fear/concern out of (paraphrasing) “questioning the integrity of the NCCPA” is more important than displaying support to the PAs who have suffered from the NCCPA's error. That support my be primarily emotional, but is that not worthy? Steve- having you here on the forum is appreciated. Despite the anger/hostility you have been receiving, you should know that (most of) the rank-and-file PAs here are not in state or national leadership. They don’t know the machinations. They depend on SOME of the leaders giving them the straight story AND the back story. Hopefully you continue to feel welcome here and fill the communication gap that persists between us and our national organization. And hopefully that gap continues to narrow. This forum has been denigrated (IMO) in the past as “little” or “obscure”. I ask that you and other leadership realize that this extension of social media has empowered many PAs with information that they would otherwise never have access to. Accumulation of mutual knowledge will hopefully lead to more engagement of these PAs with their state chapters and the AAPA. I think we all ask that the AAPA leadership not continue to fall back on “the power is all in your hands if you just organize yourself and run for AAPA office” (again paraphrasing). This is a two way street and it would be nice to see the AAPA show some muster even if it means potentially questioning the mettle of the NCCPA. To put it bluntly- the AAPA and NCCPA are not infallible in the eyes of MANY PAs. The bond of trust and expectation has been broken, despite continued dues-paying support over the years. A show of respect and support in the other direction would go a long way now. Thanks. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think this explains the (perceived) frustration of PAs re: the behavior of the AAPA.I am not in PANRE cycle this yr so I have no dog in this fight.... But there is a lot of emotion attached to the way the NCCPA early and late responses to the PANRE problem, as well as the AAPA's non-response. PAs WANT to feel like their organization- the only major organized voice they have- will use that voice. They want to feel that the guys/gals with the guns are going to speak up. They state (repeatedly on this forum, for whatever that is worth) that the AAPA is an anemic voice on issues that are important to many PAs. PLEASE understand that this does not negate the positive legislative moves the AAPA has facilitated. As a member of this forum I have been enlightened by the numerous PAs who have posted regarding issues which range from national to local, where they have contacted the AAPA, asked for help, and gotten either no response. Or worse...active antagonism. The question is, why not make a statement, publicly, on the AAPA site +/- mass email, that they are aware of the profession and will work with PAs to find a solution? Even if the AAPA has no formal power over the NCCPA, they DO have resources to COMMUNICATE with the NCCPA board. There is certainly cross-pollination of AAPA and NCCPA board members (I see at least one NCCPA board member who is a past pres at AAPA). The general consensus here is that the leaders of the AAPA and NCCPA run in the same circles. How true that is, we don't know. The answer seems to be that the fear/concern out of (paraphrasing) “questioning the integrity of the NCCPA” is more important than displaying support to the PAs who have suffered from the NCCPA's error. That support my be primarily emotional, but is that not worthy? Steve- having you here on the forum is appreciated. Despite the anger/hostility you have been receiving, you should know that (most of) the rank-and-file PAs here are not in state or national leadership. They don’t know the machinations. They depend on SOME of the leaders giving them the straight story AND the back story. Hopefully you continue to feel welcome here and fill the communication gap that persists between us and our national organization. And hopefully that gap continues to narrow. This forum has been denigrated (IMO) in the past as “little” or “obscure”. I ask that you and other leadership realize that this extension of social media has empowered many PAs with information that they would otherwise never have access to. Accumulation of mutual knowledge will hopefully lead to more engagement of these PAs with their state chapters and the AAPA. I think we all ask that the AAPA leadership not continue to fall back on “the power is all in your hands if you just organize yourself and run for AAPA office” (again paraphrasing). This is a two way street and it would be nice to see the AAPA show some muster even if it means potentially questioning the mettle of the NCCPA. To put it bluntly- the AAPA and NCCPA are not infallible in the eyes of MANY PAs. The bond of trust and expectation has been broken, despite continued dues-paying support over the years. A show of respect and support in the other direction would go a long way now. Thanks. Matt OMG!! I actually agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 21, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2011 Nope. The AAPA gets the "privilege" of suggesting qualified PAs to fill an open seat. The NCCPA BOT votes to appoint the candidate that they want. That should change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think this explains the (perceived) frustration of PAs re: the behavior of the AAPA.I am not in PANRE cycle this yr so I have no dog in this fight.... But there is a lot of emotion attached to the way the NCCPA early and late responses to the PANRE problem, as well as the AAPA's non-response. PAs WANT to feel like their organization- the only major organized voice they have- will use that voice. They want to feel that the guys/gals with the guns are going to speak up. They state (repeatedly on this forum, for whatever that is worth) that the AAPA is an anemic voice on issues that are important to many PAs. PLEASE understand that this does not negate the positive legislative moves the AAPA has facilitated. As a member of this forum I have been enlightened by the numerous PAs who have posted regarding issues which range from national to local, where they have contacted the AAPA, asked for help, and gotten either no response. Or worse...active antagonism. The question is, why not make a statement, publicly, on the AAPA site +/- mass email, that they are aware of the profession and will work with PAs to find a solution? Even if the AAPA has no formal power over the NCCPA, they DO have resources to COMMUNICATE with the NCCPA board. There is certainly cross-pollination of AAPA and NCCPA board members (I see at least one NCCPA board member who is a past pres at AAPA). The general consensus here is that the leaders of the AAPA and NCCPA run in the same circles. How true that is, we don't know. The answer seems to be that the fear/concern out of (paraphrasing) “questioning the integrity of the NCCPA” is more important than displaying support to the PAs who have suffered from the NCCPA's error. That support my be primarily emotional, but is that not worthy? Steve- having you here on the forum is appreciated. Despite the anger/hostility you have been receiving, you should know that (most of) the rank-and-file PAs here are not in state or national leadership. They don’t know the machinations. They depend on SOME of the leaders giving them the straight story AND the back story. Hopefully you continue to feel welcome here and fill the communication gap that persists between us and our national organization. And hopefully that gap continues to narrow. This forum has been denigrated (IMO) in the past as “little” or “obscure”. I ask that you and other leadership realize that this extension of social media has empowered many PAs with information that they would otherwise never have access to. Accumulation of mutual knowledge will hopefully lead to more engagement of these PAs with their state chapters and the AAPA. I think we all ask that the AAPA leadership not continue to fall back on “the power is all in your hands if you just organize yourself and run for AAPA office” (again paraphrasing). This is a two way street and it would be nice to see the AAPA show some muster even if it means potentially questioning the mettle of the NCCPA. To put it bluntly- the AAPA and NCCPA are not infallible in the eyes of MANY PAs. The bond of trust and expectation has been broken, despite continued dues-paying support over the years. A show of respect and support in the other direction would go a long way now. Thanks. Matt What he said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 OMG!! I actually agree. Adams I knew we'd eventually meet somewhere..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Banuchi Posted October 21, 2011 Administrator Share Posted October 21, 2011 surgipa = mikejfox = terryF? Surgipa's first post(and thread) was touting mikejfox's "let's start a class action" website. It makes sense. Maybe Banuchi can compare IP addresses. Yes, Surgipa = Mikejfox = TerryF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 That should change. It will remain that way until the NCCPA BOT changes the rules. Not likely to happen in the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Yes, Surgipa = Mikejfox = TerryF I wonder if there are any trolls on this board, claiming to be PA's who have failed and are railing against the system. . Think there were others; Ludicris, bosox33, etc... All one in the same?? Roses are red Violets are blue I'm a schizophrenic.... And so am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 C'mon folks, the AAPA is impotent in matters regarding the NCCPA. Remember how we (AAPA HOD) asked them not to start with the specialty exams? The (paraphrased) NCCPA response: go crap in your hat, we are doing what we want. The organizations are by no means in bed with one another. It seems more accurate to say that PAs cut their leadership teeth in the AAPA, eventually make a lateral transfer into the NCCPA, and then begin acting like drug-addled, drunken, head-injured imbeciles. The NCCPA - the majority of whose board is NOT composed of PAs - has unilaterally and irreparably altered the very nature of the PA profession with their specialty examinations. If the AAPA wants to be a real advocate, the AAPA needs to get the NBME on board with an alternate certification exam - one that will also lend itself to bridging into MD and/or DO programs. As for the NCCPA BOT: may the devil himself molest them all with a red-hot pitchfork for endless ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The answer seems to be that the fear/concern out of (paraphrasing) “questioning the integrity of the NCCPA” is more important than displaying support to the PAs who have suffered from the NCCPA's error. That support my be primarily emotional, but is that not worthy? Steve- having you here on the forum is appreciated. Despite the anger/hostility you have been receiving, you should know that (most of) the rank-and-file PAs here are not in state or national leadership. They don’t know the machinations. They depend on SOME of the leaders giving them the straight story AND the back story. Hopefully you continue to feel welcome here and fill the communication gap that persists between us and our national organization. And hopefully that gap continues to narrow. This forum has been denigrated (IMO) in the past as “little” or “obscure”. I ask that you and other leadership realize that this extension of social media has empowered many PAs with information that they would otherwise never have access to. Accumulation of mutual knowledge will hopefully lead to more engagement of these PAs with their state chapters and the AAPA. I think we all ask that the AAPA leadership not continue to fall back on “the power is all in your hands if you just organize yourself and run for AAPA office” (again paraphrasing). This is a two way street and it would be nice to see the AAPA show some muster even if it means potentially questioning the mettle of the NCCPA. To put it bluntly- the AAPA and NCCPA are not infallible in the eyes of MANY PAs. The bond of trust and expectation has been broken, despite continued dues-paying support over the years. A show of respect and support in the other direction would go a long way now. Thanks. Matt I appreciate your opinions, and my goal here is to have a robust, informed discussion on the issues. I don't communicate much with the current leadership and staff of the AAPA by design, as I feel that it is up to the current leadership to lead, and remember all too well when past presidents would bend my ear and give me "advice" on how to best do the job of president. I have had my time, and it was time to move on. Right now, I'm focused on my job and community, but still want to see the PA profession grow and prosper overall. I really appreciate everyone's opinion, and have developed a pretty thick skin over the decades of debate. This forum is "genteel" compared to the anger, hostility and insults I have been subjected to at C1 and other forums. I get frustrated when folks discount all the good work of the Academy because their hot button issue is not being actively addressed or advocated, but realize this is a minority view. I also realize that the AAPA is monolithic and bureaucratic , resulting from over 4 decades of organizational evolution. Changing leaders, changing staff, and a dramatic and rapid evolution and growth of the profession have all contributed to the state of the current organization. There is no doubt that the AAPA can evolve into an organization that better meets the needs of all PAs, and that the current organization has a ways to go to get there. I know the current leaders, and have faith that they have good hearts and want what is best for everyone. As for the NCCPA, more public support for the working PA is always appropriate, and that is the responsibility of President Wooten. Knowing Robert, I'm certain that he has discussed this error directly with the leadership of the NCCPA, but understand that people affected by this debacle need to feel like they have a public champion. You have no argument from me on this. We all need to hold our elected leader's feet to the fire, and I will certainly do my part, PRN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2305 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I remember when the AAPA politicians were not putting the "C" after their names. It lasted a year or so. I like the idea of another certifying commission, but it won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I like the idea of another certifying commission, but it won't happen. A while back I started a topic about optometry being unhappy with their own representation and the drive to form a new/certifying organization... Didn't get much response... Seems that all the talk here is moving in the same direction... The difference is another group actually started the movement when enough people felt they were adversely impacted . The new organization has had a major impact by way of shift in membership dues to the new group and has delayed (possibly reversed) other administrative goals of the old one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-ste Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think surgipa makes some valid points and is correct. The AAPA should come out strong and make a statement. I was affected by this screw up and it cost me my whole summer with my family and friends, many sleepless nights, stress, anxiety, loss of professional reputation, 40 hrs vacation time at a review course, 20 hrs of vacation time studying before taking it the second time, a day of CME to actually take the test again. Recertification is bull**** and nothing but a 28 million dollar cash cow every 6 yrs for the NCCPA. Passing or not passing the recert does not make you a good or bad PA. Time for change, time for US to force the change. Imagine the AAPA with an internal cert board. anyone want to join in there is also Fightnccpa.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-ste Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 i think we should start a class action and show the NCCPA that we arent a bunch of losers being herded around, mooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I sent Mr Wooten an e-mail about this issue 2 wks ago. I have yet to receive the courtesy of a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atjross@aol.com Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I have not been on this forum for a while and had no idea that so many PA's were so negatively impacted by a preventable scoring error. It really is unbelievable that this could of happened and my heart goes out to those who were the unfortunate victims of this mess. Ironically when I graduated in the early 90's there was a lot of concern with the NCCPA being the lone certifying agency. There were also concerns raised about the "practical" portion of the PANCE validity and reliability since this practical portion was often administered by staff members at the PA school's, therefore the staff was biased to the test-taker. At that time many senior PA's discussed the long time friction between the AAPA and the NCCPA. I honestly think if the AAPA could do something it would. Unfortunately, as discussed, there is only one certifying agency at this time and they have an exclusive hold in all state legislation that provides state licensing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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