Mtemsic Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum, and I apologize in advance for the redundant questions that I'm sure have been asked a thousand times already. As of right now I am an undergraduate with about one year left until graduation. I'm currently an accounting major but have grown very uninspired with this field of study. I know it sounds cliche but I would very much like to have more job satisfaction and be able to make a difference with what I do. I've become very intrigued by the PA career as my wife is a RN and turned me onto the PA field. I'm starting from scratch here and have a few of questions I'm hoping to get some help with, so any comments or advice is greatly appreciated. My first concern is the student loan burden I will be taking on. As of now I will have approximately $45,000 of debt after completing undergrad. I know that seems like a lot, but unfortunately my situation did not allow me any financial aid other than federal loans so I was forced to pay for every dime of it myself. If I'm lucky enough to be accepted to a PA program I will need money for living expenses. My living expenses are more substantial because I have a wife, a son, and a mortgage. I know I'm not the first person with a family to attend PA school but my living expense needs will total about $2,500 a month. so my first question is; can I even get financed for that amount of money or do they put a cap on how much living expense money can be borrowed? After PA tuition, undergrad debt, and living expenses I calculated my total student debt to be around $200,000 after PA graduation. My second question is; is this even a realistic amount of debt to carry? Should a student even consider becoming a PA with this much debt? My third question is; is my undergrad degree of accounting even relevant (with the proper prerequisites of course) when applying to PA school? Do PA programs only accept graduates with science based degrees? Any advice, insight, or help with these questions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLRP3 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Depending on where you are willing to work as a post grad, there are alot of student loan repayment programs available, NHSC, NPSLF, IHS and many other. They will not pay for your undergraduate loans, so don't consolidate, and some of these opportunities exist it what many would consider to be underdesirable locations. Furthermore 200K in student loans is likely to result in high monthly payment amounts, and while the pay for PAs is good, it isn't that good. Look under the financial aid tabs and talk to a counselor at the local program to get a better idea for options. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT2PA Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Is 200k smart? Oh definitely not. But many of us are doing it. (I'll have about $250k from my 3 yr program when I'm done) As far as borrowing, you will be limited (federally) by what the school determines to be your cost of attendance (COA). This includes tuition, living expenses, etc that the school determines based on where you are located. A school located in a large city probably allows more for living expenses than a school in a small, rural town. Does your wife work? Can she? I *think* you may be able to request more if you are supporting a family (or specifically for daycare provision). I have no idea what a private loan might allow. There is also a lifetime cap on the amount you can borrow federally so keep that in mind, too. Keep in mind that your living expenses are $2500/mo but you must also consider books/health insurance/etc (that you may not have included). Most schools will post a COA somewhere on their site for prospective students which will help you determine how much you may be able to get in loans. Also, since you mentioned a mortgage, I assume you are against moving - which limits the schools you will apply to which is helpful for researching costs but you are also leaving out schools that may be more cost efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 13, 2015 Administrator Share Posted August 13, 2015 I only had $17k in loans, have been as aggressive in paying them off as I could, and it's still taken me more than 3 years to knock that out. My loan payments are right at $200/month, and I've been pre-paying principal like mad. I cannot, cannot fathom what it would be like to owe 10-15x the amount I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I only had $17k in loans, have been as aggressive in paying them off as I could, and it's still taken me more than 3 years to knock that out. My loan payments are right at $200/month, and I've been pre-paying principal like mad. I cannot, cannot fathom what it would be like to owe 10-15x the amount I do. I owe about 10x what you do. I live without struggling, but there isn't a whole lot left over after that to build an emergency fund or retirement. I should double my salary soon once I finish my postgrad training and plan to pay off my loans in 5 years. It's not that hard if you stick to a budget and aren't supporting a family. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 13, 2015 Administrator Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's not that hard if you stick to a budget and aren't supporting a family. Ah, but I am--family of five, and I'm the only one with any appreciable income. Consider also that a lot of people who are choosing PA over MD are doing so with the intent of being able to start a family sooner than they would if they were in an MD program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 A few things to think about... a) the amount of loans you end up with will likely be much higher than you expect. Little things add up... books, equipment, gas for driving to clinicals, expenses of an away rotation, overpriced health insurance through school, car breaks down, medical emergencies, school events... etc. b) graduate school loans are not subsidized. Meaning that every dollar you borrow will be racking up interest from the day you get it. This adds up. Especially when talking 100-200K of loans c) if your final amount is $200,000 as you planned... this is over $2000/month for 10 years. Yikes. YEs, you can do it. Yes, you can get the loans. Is it worth it? Thats a conversation for you and your spouse. Crunch the numbers and be very honest with yourself on potential expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 First things first. You don't just select PA as a career and transition smoothly from undergrad to PA school. While a science degree is not required, PA programs ALL have a list of pre-requisites which are mostly science, and many require an associated lab course. As an accounting major, you are unlikely to have taken these courses and will need to take them after graduating. Many schools either require or prefer you to have worked with patients in health care. The majority of PA students, even science majors, take pre-requisites courses after graduation and work in health care during this time. I don't get that you want to be a PA in order to make a difference. You can make excellent social contributions in accounting. Warren Buffett recently said that one of the most important courses for business people is accounting. The CEO of Starbucks, feels that he has an obligation, not just to make money for shareholders, but to improve the lives of his employees and other disconnected people in society. Why is business a less noble pursuit than medicine? You need to really think about why you want to do this. My son recently graduated with a business degree in finance, got a great job making more money in his first year than many PAs. 10 years from now, he will be making double or triple what most experienced PAs make. What has happened to our society to make young people think business is evil? He will be paid for his contribution and he finds that very satisfying. Are you really so sure you want to be in medicine? It isn't for everyone and the PA path requires a lot of work and dedication, as well as a major investment in your future. Think about it. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtemsic Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Thank you for the responses everyone, I really appreciate it. I've been a business major for four years now and have just become disgusted with all of the greed and corruption that comes along with big business. I really want to find a career path that involves helping others, making a noble contribution to society first, and then worrying about the money. I'm aware that medicine is a business too because my wife is a RN, but I've always admired the contribution she makes to peoples lives. Medicine has always fascinated me as a kid, but I always convinced myself that I didn't have what it takes to pursue it. Well the older I get I realize I DO have what it takes to pursue a medical career, unfortunately the cost of pursuing this career seems to be too much of a risk financially to myself and my family. I have a newborn son and want to make a better life for him, not bury him in his fathers school debt from day one. I'm going to keep researching this career and discuss it with my wife, but the outlook is looking bleak. Perhaps I should have considered all of this ten years ago instead of after I've taken on a mortgage and a family! Thanks again for everyone's comments and advice, it's truly appreciated, and I admire all of you for pursuing this career! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbum Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Have you looked for/found every single expense you can eliminate during school? I only ask because you mention needing $2500/month...if that's in addition to your wife's RN salary, that strikes me as a really high number. Is your mortgage payment huge? Sell the house. Are car loans killing you? Sell it and buy a 98 Civic. There's a thread in the recovery room section of the site if you're interested in some info/motivation about frugal living. Do you have any equity in your home? Assuming I get accepted, I'm planning to refinance next year to pay for living expenses during school. With home prices recovering, that may be an option for you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Thank you for the responses everyone, I really appreciate it. I've been a business major for four years now and have just become disgusted with all of the greed and corruption that comes along with big business. I really want to find a career path that involves helping others, making a noble contribution to society first, and then worrying about the money. I'm aware that medicine is a business too because my wife is a RN, but I've always admired the contribution she makes to peoples lives. Medicine has always fascinated me as a kid, but I always convinced myself that I didn't have what it takes to pursue it. Well the older I get I realize I DO have what it takes to pursue a medical career, unfortunately the cost of pursuing this career seems to be too much of a risk financially to myself and my family. I have a newborn son and want to make a better life for him, not bury him in his fathers school debt from day one. I'm going to keep researching this career and discuss it with my wife, but the outlook is looking bleak. Perhaps I should have considered all of this ten years ago instead of after I've taken on a mortgage and a family! Thanks again for everyone's comments and advice, it's truly appreciated, and I admire all of you for pursuing this career!I don't know what experiences have made you feel big business is full of greed and corruption. Of course, we see it in the media and some of it is real and some of it is exaggerated. But if you follow the news, you will find plenty of greed and corruption in big medicine. It's not just insurance companies. It's also doctors, clinics, hospitals and even, on occasion, PAs and nurses. If you consider all the folks in medicine and all the folks in business, I think you will see the same proportions of bad apples. I have been in business most of my life and the vast majority of business people are hard working and caring individuals. I love medicine but I don't think health care workers are better than people in the rest of society. It's just that its harder, in most situations, for health care workers to cheat. Trust me when I tell you there is plenty of greed in health care. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If medicine is really where you want to be, sell your house, rent an appartment, and get a job in health care after graduation. Start taking courses, pay off your under grad debt and see where it all goes. If health care is what you really want, you will find a path. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious_Ignoramus Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Since the topic is debt burden, you should be aware of two programs for federal loans: Loan repayment - there are pay-as-you-earn and income based repayment plans. My current undergrad debt payment is $0 per month, considering my income and family size. Obivously things change when you approach a 6 figure salary, but it is relative to your standing above the federal pverty level by 100s of percentage points. There are also deferment options including "I am working full time but I cannot afford to make payments at this time." Interest acrues during deferment, but every little bit helps when you are starting out. Loan forgiveness - if you work in a federally defined public service area, not necessarily a federal job, and are approved for this program, 100% of your remaining loans are forgiven after 10 years of qualifying payments. These two programs can be used in conjunction with each other. Power through the school, be wise about paying back the debt...there really isn't another way for regular people like us to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Mtemsic, there was an article in today's Wall Street Journal about a 96 year old man in a nursing home, suffering from dementia, and generally in very poor health. The home failed to follow written instructions and their own policies regarding his nutrition. He became severely dehydrated and was losing weight and had to be admitted to the hospital where he died shortly thereafter. The kicker is that, unknown to his family, he was being given lots of physical therapy which was billable to medicare. In short, he didn't get the care he needed, but did get care he didn't need. I see stories like this all the time. If you assembled all of these stories in a portfolio, you might think the medical world was full of greedy uncaring people. Of course, I don't believe that, but it emphasizes my earlier point. Greed and corruption exists everywhere. I can't think of a single vocation where it has not reared it's ugly head. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtemsic Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 I agree that medicine also has it's share of bad apples, like every career field. I guess my biggest concern is "doing something that makes a difference." I just feel like in all business the number one goal is to "generate profit." Everything in business goes back to the same goal of making money. Everything is so money driven that people lose sight of ethics, morals and their reason for doing what their true purpose is, the bottom line is make more money for the company. I would love to have a career where people come first and money comes second, not the other way around. I myself am willing to make any sacrifice necessary to become a PA and begin a medical career, but I'm not so sure I'm ready to put my wife and son through "hell" while I'm chasing my dream. I am wiling to live in a car and starve if that's what I have to do, but I'm not willing to make my family suffer. I guess that's where the line has been drawn and that will be the deciding factor as to what I choose to do. I know I can make a difference in the world with an accounting degree and possibly an MBA. My current university offers an MBA program in healthcare administration. Maybe I can look into that and combine my knowledge of business and accounting with my desire to be in the medical field. After all, hospitals are businesses and ned to be ran like one! Thanks again everyone for taking time out of your day for any advice and insight on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious_Ignoramus Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 You just have to be wise about taking your family along, it doesn't have to be as extreme as you make it sound. My wife has known from the getgo that I would puruse professional medicine, so she has been prepared for this for a while. We order our finances in such a way that we never carry more debt than we can pay off in one year (the two exceptions here are our car and my undergrad debt). We have the chance to buy a house with a no down payment VA or USDA loan in a great market, but that is something we can't do so we don't. We've traded in an older vehicle which needed a lot of work for a new vehicle we could afford, which gets about double the fuel mileage. We've planned our family such that my son will just be settling into school when we find a place for me to practice, and we're careful to not get pregnant when a move is on the horizon. We've filled our rental house with furniture that we can afford to give away when the time comes, and will be able to fit our entire life into our sedan and a single moving truck. Getting into, and moving to, PA school is a regular part of our life and conversation. All of our family knows, friends know. The wife works from home and is looking into employment opportunities in all of the areas of my prospective schools; she intends to begin netowrking online if/when I am accepted. Should I end up with a choice of schools to attend, the wife gets to pick where we go. She went through undergrad with me and has some idea of what it will be like for me to be generally unavailable. We're really good at working through stress as it comes our way. It can be done, as long as your family is on board with it, and you have a big part to do with whether or not that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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