The Doctor of Nurse Practitioner Program Will ROCK the Physician Assistant Profession

[Hemegroup]

The OP was obviously "ROCK" trolling, but I must say a very interesting discussion ensued.

[dm123]

There's very little competition with the docs b/c docs charge so much due to high malprac ins premiums. An NP can/will do a yearly physical and charge 25 bucks!!! No doc does that...and the NPs office is usually very full....

 

WOW!!

Must be a different H&P than what I'm use to preforming. Do they use a stethoscope or just listen as they walk in the room? Does the $25.00 include annual labs?

 

How do they pay for an office, equipment, staff to check the patient in, or any malpractice, healthcare for themselves or their staff, not to mention taxes, for 25 bucks they must be at a loss financially. Maybe it is gratis work. I'm glad I'm a PA with at least a minimum wage.

 

This is really sounding like a drooling troll and not worth the time of a response. My last post on this topic.

[swimbikerun4fun]

It is interesting to read the comments posted, because in ND, they are pumping out 25 nurse practioners in Bismarck, the capital city, and next year they are admitting 45 students. They only require 6 months clinical experience after obtaining their RN. Each surgeon at the hospital I work at has his own NP, and our hospital has a policy stating no PA can be part of the ER, only NP's. Bismarck, ND is NOT a easy market for PA's!

[marilynpac]

They obviously have a powerful nursing lobby in ND.....just another example of our impotent one...

[rsandoval79]

If NPs or PAs want to be called Dr., go to medical school. We are mid-levels. Our field is very respectable and has a great place in the medical field. I believe DNP will be NPs downfall, trying to make themselves feel more valid, while intentionally misleading patients to believe they are MDs.

 

(thumbs up) like

[Firemedic13]

Firemedic13,

 

Very interesting, I didn't know that. How do the two groups fair income wise, PAs and NPs? I'll have to admit, if I had it to do over again, I would have been a CRNA. My wife has always made gobs more money than me, currently well over $150k and NC is not a high cost of living state, plus more time off, easier work (unless something goes wrong), matching retirement and other disgusting benefits I would never see. PAs have come a long way in income. I'm ashamed to say what my first salary was, but it was less that $15k.

 

With the exception of CRNAs (who are making $150k-200K a year) NPs and PAs are about equal here in NM. I think they are both starting around $80K. Only real difference is that I see more PAs than NPs in certain specialties, and they are way more likely to make good money in those (think ortho).

[Firemedic13]

Of those states that allow NPs to function and prescribe without physician over-site, what is the average pay scale? Is the work in under privilege areas or along side, and in the same areas as physicians? Do they compete with physicians for patients, i.e. does the patient have a choice between physician and NP?

 

I can answer one part of this, for NM at least: The NPs without "oversight" but working in a physician led practice are making the same as PAs. The NPs with their own practices, however, have the potential to make bank. Since they are the owners their salary is limited only by the number of patients their practice sees. And they are competing with the FP docs here in town. I know that some of the physicians are rather unhappy about this... but then again there are honestly so many people in need of FP services in this state that I don't imagine it has hit them financially too too much... yet. But recently all the urgent cares for one of the hospital systems in town were taken over by an NP run (and owned) practice.

 

On another note I talked once to a CRNA with his own group. He and several other CRNAs all work together to provide services to a hospital. The CRNAs charge less than local physician anesthesia groups, and all of the CRNAs in the group (anecdotally) are making around $250K-300K a year.

[Gordon, PA-C]

We debate the autonomy issue from time to time. She can work outside of a hospital setting but the surgeon who is performing the procedure supplies the drugs, in essence being the supervising physician.

If this is true, its absurd. Its identical to an anesthesiologist shoving the surgeon out of the way and trying to run a carotid-subclavian bypass. Surgeons dont know jack about anesthesia, and its malpractice for them to "supervise" something that they dont know how to do. As a lawyer I'd have a field day with a surgeon trying to "supervise" someone doing anesthesia.

[gidget144]

Indeed, this is the case in NM, but I think the rural area factors into it way more than anything, there are so many people who live in places that Docs simply won't go and who don't make enough to afford a Doc as a primary caregiver. I think in a few years, Docs will find themselves edged out by NPs and PAs in the state- but then again, that's in a few years.

[marilynpac]

Indeed, this is the case in NM, but I think the rural area factors into it way more than anything, there are so many people who live in places that Docs simply won't go and who don't make enough to afford a Doc as a primary caregiver. I think in a few years, Docs will find themselves edged out by NPs and PAs in the state- but then again, that's in a few years.

Agree, but for every PA you will have 5 or more NPs.....thanks to their powerful lobby...

[gidget144]

Agree, but for every PA you will have 5 or more NPs.....thanks to their powerful lobby...

True. It's one of the reasons I decided against being a nurse. The lobby seems to have a big inferiority complex and a love of needlessly complicated degrees. I have a theory that there's a nursing bubble that will pop in a few years...you can't have that many degrees in one market and not have a glut or division into factions.

 

Then again, I'm just an optimist.

[ummm987]

I'm not sure I understand the doom and gloom theme behind this entire thread. My class graduated from Drexel in December with approx 80-90 of us. Everyone I have spoken to in my class is already employed, most of them in the field of their choice at a solid starting salary (most >80K). I do not foresee the PA profession having issues in the future. The profession has only continued to grow every year. It may run into lobbying issues that vary from state to state, but this will continue to improve with time. Every time there is a new job poll with the most satisfying jobs or the best jobs for the future, PAs are always ranked #1 or #2. I talked to the admissions coordinator at Drexel recently, and they received 1300 applications for 80 seats, so it seems our youth agree it has a promising future. I continue to check the job boards out of curiosity and there are new jobs opening every day (and this is in Philadelphia which is already a PA saturated market!).

 

Bottom line, cheer up people. I doubt any PAs are going to be fired anytime soon for the reason "we're replacing you with an NP." We have a great profession, that provides us with greater flexibility than NPs (who have to choose a specialty - i.e. peds, primary care, OBGYN, etc.). Happiness is all about perception. Be positive, be enthusiastic, pay it forward. It's contagious in a good way!

[marilynpac]

Well it already has happened. My friend worked as an EDPA for 3yrs. The hospital had a merger with another hospital(Chicago), and they made everyone reapply for their jobs. She noticed ALL the PAs were replaced with NPs who the hospital had work as an NP unless things were quiet in the ED, then made them function as nurses. Her salary was 100k and the NPs were hired for 55k. Granted this happened in 2000, but it started a growing trend here in IL and eventually the NPs were hired over the PAs.

[EMEDPA]

I'm not sure I understand the doom and gloom theme behind this entire thread. My class graduated from Drexel in December with approx 80-90 of us. Everyone I have spoken to in my class is already employed, most of them in the field of their choice at a solid starting salary (most >80K).

behold the benefits of graduating from a solid program!

congrats!

emedpa

hahnemann/drexel grad

[ummm987]

Marilyn, It seems you are very unhappy being a PA. Perhaps you should consider becoming an NP at this point.

[ummm987]

behold the benefits of graduating from a solid program!

congrats!

emedpa

hahnemann/drexel grad

 

Thanks EMEDPA, it truly was a fantastic program. They really know what they're doing. I have to say that on rotations we were lauded over other PA programs' students.

[marilynpac]

Marilyn, It seems you are very unhappy being a PA. Perhaps you should consider becoming an NP at this point.

 

I'm very unhappy with our lack or representation....if you had read through all the posts you would know that.

[Hemegroup]

Thanks EMEDPA, it truly was a fantastic program. They really know what they're doing. I have to say that on rotations we were lauded over other PA programs' students.

 

 

Well it's good to know someone actually appreciated everything, considering all the whiners in our class!