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Ortho offer


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Hi all,

 

New grad here. I was hoping to get some advice on an offer as follows:

 

The practice is General & sports medicine, private practice affiliated with one of the large hospitals in the area (Midwest). The doc I will be working with seems very nice and I have heard good things about him as a surgeon. He has worked with several PA's in the past.

 

No call, M-F roughly 8 hour days. I don't have the exact schedule, but it will be 2-2.5 days OR and 2.5-3 clinic.

Salary: $80,000

Bonus: Quarterly of $3,750 for production >$10,000/month average

Medical and dental included (not sure if its full coverage)

Pension and profit-sharing available

Sick leave: 5 days

Vacation: 2 weeks

CME: 5 days paid (unsure of how much he will contribute for CME $)

Contract says employer will provide liability insurance.. not sure on specifics.

 

This is just a rough draft of the contract. I will be meeting the doc in the next few days to talk more specifics. I want to be prepare negotiations for that time.

 

Initially the salary looks pretty low for what I am looking for. There aren't very many opportunities in the area and I have been wanting to work with this doc. I also feel that the vacation days are low. With production (I need to talk with him about that) I could earn 15 k for the year.. which makes the compensation more tolerable. I do not know specifics on the schedule but I know there is no call, and from our conversation the hours aren't bad at all.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what I should counter with and anything else I should be considering with this. I am hoping I could bring the salary up to $85. Not sure yet on how much that will increase each year.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

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Thanks for the advice guys. I will be sure to ask for that.

 

I am not too concerned with the salary with the bonus structure. At 10K/month that would be 120K for the year... which would barely cover my salary and benefits... if I make that bonus.

 

Does 10K/month billing in ortho surgery seem reasonable? I haven't practiced yet but it seems like that is certainly achievable. If so, I would be happy with that compensation. Perhaps I could ask for a signing bonus.. which might help my no car situation right now.

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Okay, so I met with the doc today and we changed a few things...

 

No call. Hours are same as previous, however he did mention that the hours will be 50 hours/week. What I asked for is underlined.

 

Salary 80,000 (same as before... he didn't move on that because he just hired a PA for the group 6 months ago and that's what she signed with. Pretty unfortunate but that's where I am at)

Sign-on bonus: 2,500 (he agreed to this since he didn't move on the salary)

CME/expense fund of 2,500... but this includes all CME, license fees, membership fees etc. (most likely will not be needing DEA which we discussed)

21 days vacations and 7 days sick = 28 total. This is from 14 days vacation, 5 days sick and 5 CME (so I was able to increase an extra 4 days.)

 

He did say that the bonus is easily attainable and all of the PAs make it every quarter (I did not discuss this with the other PAs).. so that is an extra $15,000 if that is the case

Full medical and dental for family

401 K and profit-share after the 1st year.

 

What do you all think? He is going to make the changes and get it back to me.

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I agree SoCal. My thoughts are that is just to cover them. The way I see it is it just a measure to make sure we are there doing work. At 10,000/month that is 120,000 per year. If I do not collect 120,000 then what good would I be? 120,000 would barely cover my salary at 80 K and benefits. If I squeaked by each month at 10 k to get the 15 k annual bonus then that would certainly be less favorable for him... but I think he is knows that and is aware that we are able exceed those numbers. I am a results driven person so I would like to think I would far exceed that... then I would have to ask myself why am I not being compensated fairly... but because I am a new grad without results it is hard to justify that. That's when re-negotiation after year 1 would be different... I would hope. He did say he is open to review/negotiations at 6 month but even then what could I bring to the table with only 6 months of results?

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No DEA needed? Really?  This means you will not be able to write for any post-op pain management and it will hamper you.  DO the other PAs have DEA licenses?

 

It's interesting that nowadays it seems credentialing committees require a DEA license, regardless of the specialty you are in.  You could always apply for it later but I would put in the contract if you get one that the practice pay for it, and NOT out of your CME fees.

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50 hours a week is a lot, and really decreases your hourly pay to below what you should be making, even with the bonus, however you do have to think of it as a learning year and get as much out of that first year or two as you can. For an experienced PA I would say that is not enough considering the hours, but for someone right out of school it may be a good experience.   I did 50+ hours a week working multiple positions for a couple years after I graduated PA school.  That is only sustainable for so long, especially if you have a family.  I would take it if you think it is a good environment and try to re negotiate at a year.  You will feel somewhat productive and have a comfort level at that point. 

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50 hours a week is a lot, and really decreases your hourly pay to below what you should be making, even with the bonus, however you do have to think of it as a learning year and get as much out of that first year or two as you can. For an experienced PA I would say that is not enough considering the hours, but for someone right out of school it may be a good experience.   I did 50+ hours a week working multiple positions for a couple years after I graduated PA school.  That is only sustainable for so long, especially if you have a family.  I would take it if you think it is a good environment and try to re negotiate at a year.  You will feel somewhat productive and have a comfort level at that point.

 

I appreciate your honesty. I agree 50 hours seems like a bit much for that pay without a guarantee of more than 80K... I even think that's the case for a new grad. The problem I'm having is that there are very few options in my area and I am not planning on moving. The other kicker is that I'm from Canada on a temporary visa... If I'm not employed by middle of April I have to leave the country.

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So you went to an American PA school and cannot use the degree in Canada?  I do not know the rules or if there is reciprocity between the two countries. If you move back to Canada  would you be an FMG and have to repeat PA school?  I  worked with  two Canadian physicians, liked both alot, and they each have been able to stay here and work.  Both married to American citizens and both have kids now.   I think they are maintaining their Canadian citizenship. 

 

Life gets sticky, doesn't it? Hope this all works out for you. 

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So you went to an American PA school and cannot use the degree in Canada?  I do not know the rules or if there is reciprocity between the two countries. If you move back to Canada  would you be an FMG and have to repeat PA school?  I  worked with  two Canadian physicians, liked both alot, and they each have been able to stay here and work.  Both married to American citizens and both have kids now.   I think they are maintaining their Canadian citizenship. 

 

Life gets sticky, doesn't it? Hope this all works out for you.

 

Yes, I did graduate from an American PA school. Funny thing is Canada does acknowledge ARC-PA graduates to sit for the canadian exam but the US does not accept canadian graduates. Works for me. I never plan on going back... unless I start to see the prevalence of PAs in Canada start to increase. Right now I believe only 3 provinces have programs and not many more hire PAs. There are in the process of some pilots programs to incorporate PAs and so far I think there's been good reviews. FWIW my fiancé (US citizen) and I plan to get married later this year. Unfortunately Work visas are not easy to get for us foreign folk.

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