Walkoffshot Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Hi all, New grad here. I was hoping to get some advice on an offer as follows: The practice is General & sports medicine, private practice affiliated with one of the large hospitals in the area (Midwest). The doc I will be working with seems very nice and I have heard good things about him as a surgeon. He has worked with several PA's in the past. No call, M-F roughly 8 hour days. I don't have the exact schedule, but it will be 2-2.5 days OR and 2.5-3 clinic. Salary: $80,000 Bonus: Quarterly of $3,750 for production >$10,000/month average Medical and dental included (not sure if its full coverage) Pension and profit-sharing available Sick leave: 5 days Vacation: 2 weeks CME: 5 days paid (unsure of how much he will contribute for CME $) Contract says employer will provide liability insurance.. not sure on specifics. This is just a rough draft of the contract. I will be meeting the doc in the next few days to talk more specifics. I want to be prepare negotiations for that time. Initially the salary looks pretty low for what I am looking for. There aren't very many opportunities in the area and I have been wanting to work with this doc. I also feel that the vacation days are low. With production (I need to talk with him about that) I could earn 15 k for the year.. which makes the compensation more tolerable. I do not know specifics on the schedule but I know there is no call, and from our conversation the hours aren't bad at all. Does anyone have any advice on what I should counter with and anything else I should be considering with this. I am hoping I could bring the salary up to $85. Not sure yet on how much that will increase each year. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 16, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2015 it's not too bad overall with the production bonus. how about dea, state license, nccpa fees, long term disability, retirement, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 16, 2015 Administrator Share Posted February 16, 2015 What EMED said. Rather than asking for straight cash, which is taxed at your highest nominal rate, ask for reimbursements (which cost the employer the same, but you get taxed less on them) to the greatest extent reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkoffshot Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Thanks for the advice guys. I will be sure to ask for that. I am not too concerned with the salary with the bonus structure. At 10K/month that would be 120K for the year... which would barely cover my salary and benefits... if I make that bonus. Does 10K/month billing in ortho surgery seem reasonable? I haven't practiced yet but it seems like that is certainly achievable. If so, I would be happy with that compensation. Perhaps I could ask for a signing bonus.. which might help my no car situation right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkoffshot Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Okay, so I met with the doc today and we changed a few things... No call. Hours are same as previous, however he did mention that the hours will be 50 hours/week. What I asked for is underlined. Salary 80,000 (same as before... he didn't move on that because he just hired a PA for the group 6 months ago and that's what she signed with. Pretty unfortunate but that's where I am at) Sign-on bonus: 2,500 (he agreed to this since he didn't move on the salary) CME/expense fund of 2,500... but this includes all CME, license fees, membership fees etc. (most likely will not be needing DEA which we discussed) 21 days vacations and 7 days sick = 28 total. This is from 14 days vacation, 5 days sick and 5 CME (so I was able to increase an extra 4 days.) He did say that the bonus is easily attainable and all of the PAs make it every quarter (I did not discuss this with the other PAs).. so that is an extra $15,000 if that is the case Full medical and dental for family 401 K and profit-share after the 1st year. What do you all think? He is going to make the changes and get it back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just curious if the bonus is so easily attainable and everyone gets it why not just include it in the salary? I hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 looks good. do confirm with other PAs that the bonus is easily obtainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkoffshot Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I agree SoCal. My thoughts are that is just to cover them. The way I see it is it just a measure to make sure we are there doing work. At 10,000/month that is 120,000 per year. If I do not collect 120,000 then what good would I be? 120,000 would barely cover my salary at 80 K and benefits. If I squeaked by each month at 10 k to get the 15 k annual bonus then that would certainly be less favorable for him... but I think he is knows that and is aware that we are able exceed those numbers. I am a results driven person so I would like to think I would far exceed that... then I would have to ask myself why am I not being compensated fairly... but because I am a new grad without results it is hard to justify that. That's when re-negotiation after year 1 would be different... I would hope. He did say he is open to review/negotiations at 6 month but even then what could I bring to the table with only 6 months of results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 If get that renegotiation in writing. If you have 6 months of consistently racking up more than $10k then you could renegotiate the bonus amount. He knows you will bring in more than that in ortho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 With surgery collections, isn't it possible that you might be spending a fair amount of time seeing post-ops that fall under the global bundle fee and therefore aren't generating additional collections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted February 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2015 50 hours per week - ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No DEA needed? Really? This means you will not be able to write for any post-op pain management and it will hamper you. DO the other PAs have DEA licenses? It's interesting that nowadays it seems credentialing committees require a DEA license, regardless of the specialty you are in. You could always apply for it later but I would put in the contract if you get one that the practice pay for it, and NOT out of your CME fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric130 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 50 hours a week is a lot, and really decreases your hourly pay to below what you should be making, even with the bonus, however you do have to think of it as a learning year and get as much out of that first year or two as you can. For an experienced PA I would say that is not enough considering the hours, but for someone right out of school it may be a good experience. I did 50+ hours a week working multiple positions for a couple years after I graduated PA school. That is only sustainable for so long, especially if you have a family. I would take it if you think it is a good environment and try to re negotiate at a year. You will feel somewhat productive and have a comfort level at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkoffshot Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 50 hours a week is a lot, and really decreases your hourly pay to below what you should be making, even with the bonus, however you do have to think of it as a learning year and get as much out of that first year or two as you can. For an experienced PA I would say that is not enough considering the hours, but for someone right out of school it may be a good experience. I did 50+ hours a week working multiple positions for a couple years after I graduated PA school. That is only sustainable for so long, especially if you have a family. I would take it if you think it is a good environment and try to re negotiate at a year. You will feel somewhat productive and have a comfort level at that point. I appreciate your honesty. I agree 50 hours seems like a bit much for that pay without a guarantee of more than 80K... I even think that's the case for a new grad. The problem I'm having is that there are very few options in my area and I am not planning on moving. The other kicker is that I'm from Canada on a temporary visa... If I'm not employed by middle of April I have to leave the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So you went to an American PA school and cannot use the degree in Canada? I do not know the rules or if there is reciprocity between the two countries. If you move back to Canada would you be an FMG and have to repeat PA school? I worked with two Canadian physicians, liked both alot, and they each have been able to stay here and work. Both married to American citizens and both have kids now. I think they are maintaining their Canadian citizenship. Life gets sticky, doesn't it? Hope this all works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkoffshot Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 So you went to an American PA school and cannot use the degree in Canada? I do not know the rules or if there is reciprocity between the two countries. If you move back to Canada would you be an FMG and have to repeat PA school? I worked with two Canadian physicians, liked both alot, and they each have been able to stay here and work. Both married to American citizens and both have kids now. I think they are maintaining their Canadian citizenship. Life gets sticky, doesn't it? Hope this all works out for you. Yes, I did graduate from an American PA school. Funny thing is Canada does acknowledge ARC-PA graduates to sit for the canadian exam but the US does not accept canadian graduates. Works for me. I never plan on going back... unless I start to see the prevalence of PAs in Canada start to increase. Right now I believe only 3 provinces have programs and not many more hire PAs. There are in the process of some pilots programs to incorporate PAs and so far I think there's been good reviews. FWIW my fiancé (US citizen) and I plan to get married later this year. Unfortunately Work visas are not easy to get for us foreign folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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