California Fire Department to Dispatch Citizens to Cardiac Emergencies

[Firemedic13]

3 yrs as a medic in philly was enough for me.....16 yr old emt-b's with blue lights and rescue gear in their trunk just waiting for the big one so they can ditch out of their high school english class....delaware county, pennsylvania...most volunteer ems members in the u.s......working ems in philly was like stepping 10 years into the past after working as a medic on the west coast....

 

My favorite moment ever with vollys was the time I had to stop a bunch of them doing CPR on the patient who kept saying "OW!" with every compression.

 

I have to say, the more I think about it (especially given all the poorly dispatched calls I have heard over the years) the worse of an idea this app sounds like.

[rev ronin]

Hmm. How many states allow EMTs less than 18 years old? I know Washington doesn't.

[Just Steve]

Hmm. How many states allow EMTs less than 18 years old? I know Washington doesn't.

It's been a few years but in the mid 80's Oregon allowed it. The bylaws at our town's volunteer station is that once you were a junior in high school (last day of your sophomore year) you were allowed to join the fire department. I was 15 when I joined, used to ride my bicycle to the station, jump on the tailboard of the engine, and go like the wind. Still remember my first call...compound fx of the tib/fib at the ankle after rider was thrown from a horse. Makes for some great memories. But on the other hand..23 years later, looking back...I wouldn't let a teenager in that role touch my kid with a 10 foot pole.

[True Anomaly]

.delaware county, pennsylvania...most volunteer ems members in the u.s

 

Interesting. I'm sure that bleeds over into neighboring counties...

[EMEDPA]

interesting. I'm sure that bleeds over into neighboring counties...

 

bleeds is right...

[sbellin]

Volunteer fire/EMS agencies were the foundation of many a full paid department today. I worked (like being paid for it work) in EMS for only 3 of my 25 going on 26 years in EMS; the remainder is volunteer. I'll admit it is harder to keep skills up for field work even now, as working in the hospital is just not the same. When I took a hiatis from this area to go to PA school in 1995 I was the only paramedic in our department, they then had to hire medics and from then on it was a shift to a part paid department. There's no doubt in my mind that volunteers agencies have there place and I've seen some volunteers with skills right up there with paid crews, I think this is due to some volunteers more diverse background and experience. But I see a sociatal shift away from volunteerism and the donation of time to ones community that fire and EMS agencies take as well as the viewpiont that if you pay for it it must be better.

[medic25]

I'm actually not a fan of fire ems at all. I think the places that do ems best have dedicated ems medics who don't do fire at all. doing fire + ems divides your focus and draws wanna bees who do ems to become firemen for the pay/ benefits.

 

Agree 100% with you. I've worked in a variety of EMS systems over the years, and the worst medics I've seen have been fire medics who were forced to get the certification in order to get hired. Most of our local FD's now require paramedic certification to get hired, and the most frequent question I hear is "how long do I have to keep my medic certification after hire before I can stop doing EMS?". I know of departments where the union has it written in the contract that they cannot be forced to complete any CME while on duty, so the only time they get any additional education is when they get paid overtime to attend their annual refresher. Despite the fact that EMS makes up 70-80% of their call volume, almost every drill or training exercise is fire-based, and it shows it the quality of some of the medics.

 

I contrast that with my system before PA school, which was the best I've ever worked in. Dedicated ALS fly car service for the county (EMS only), along with non-FD based BLS ambulances. Every person in the system was focused on medicine, and it showed in the quality of care. We had a collegial relationship with the ED physicians/PA's providing medical direction, and routinely did small group call reviews, CME sessions, etc., even though we weren't getting paid to attend them. The only time the FD were involved was when something was on fire or we needed extrication, and the FD guys were very happy to have this set-up. They did their job well, and we did our job well.

[Firemedic13]

Volunteer fire/EMS agencies were the foundation of many a full paid department today. I worked (like being paid for it work) in EMS for only 3 of my 25 going on 26 years in EMS; the remainder is volunteer. I'll admit it is harder to keep skills up for field work even now, as working in the hospital is just not the same. When I took a hiatis from this area to go to PA school in 1995 I was the only paramedic in our department, they then had to hire medics and from then on it was a shift to a part paid department. There's no doubt in my mind that volunteers agencies have there place and I've seen some volunteers with skills right up there with paid crews, I think this is due to some volunteers more diverse background and experience. But I see a sociatal shift away from volunteerism and the donation of time to ones community that fire and EMS agencies take as well as the viewpiont that if you pay for it it must be better.

 

Sorry, but I really do think paid is better. The more pay and the more EMS focused a system is, the better. While I too have met some good vollys, the overwhelming majority suck, whether they provide EMS or fire. I have seen people die because of vollys, and I have seen houses burn to the ground because of vollys.

 

EMS is a complicated profession that requires true professionals. And when you can't pay for CE hours for someone, when you can't get paid to be the best at what you do.... well, patient care suffers.

[Just Steve]

Speaking from now my 23rd year in ems ranging from a rural volunteer firefighter/first responder to volunteer urban, to paid urban firefighter/paramedic, to current paid urban paramedic only...it's up to the individual to really care. There are rock solid folks at every level who I'd trust with the lives of my family and there are yokels who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. We remember the bad apples as they stand out the most from the crowd but I bet if you sifted it all out, there would be an even spread of good folks and yokels at every level of service/compensation.

 

When one speaks of a paid provider, it makes me think of how municipalities band their budget together to hire an ALS ambulance to respond...these paid responders cover an area the size of New Hampshire but with a population of one city block. They run maybe 300 calls as a department a year, each provider getting maybe 100 of those calls, of which only 2-5% of the calls are true ALS emergencies. These paid folks are no more adept or skilled than the volunteer who rides 1-2 nights a week in their suburban district which gets a few thousand calls a year.

 

Those who care, care with all their heart, no matter what their capacity. While we need to ensure quality con-ed for our providers, what we really need to do is change the mentality of the Old Guard and help them realize their budget comes from ems. If they want finding to keep their doors open, then they need to embrace ems.