PA with no HCE

[goldstar97]

I wanted to seek advice about being a PA. I'm 37 years old, a 15 year veteran as a Corrections Officer, and a current Biology undergrad at a local university. I'm considering PA as a career path but I'm also looking at MD, DO, and PharmD. I read that PA's must have 2 years of HCE experience. I have none. Does this mean I should just go the doctor route?

 

 

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[winterallsummer]

Most people on this forum are big advocates of having HCE.  I had 3 years when I applied, but once I got in, I found that most of my fellow PA students had really minimal HCE, with many only having volunteered and others having jobs just in the lab or pharmacy with no real pt contact.

 

However I would STRONGLY recommend getting HCE no matter what path you like.  A lot of people have one idea about medicine but working in it is usually a totally different story.

[Hedgehog24]

For applicants with less HCE than others, are there any schools that are generally known to be more receptive than others to these applicants? I have heard that many of the programs in Florida are rather easy to get accepted to, although this is just what I've heard....

[Will352ns]

For applicants with less HCE than others, are there any schools that are generally known to be more receptive than others to these applicants? I have heard that many of the programs in Florida are rather easy to get accepted to, although this is just what I've heard....

Pretty sure the stats in Florida are the same as anywhere generally speaking (just a guess).  I attend school in Fl.  While I have no complaints with my program, it would most likely be considered a "middle of the road" program by most.  We had over 1000 applicants for 60 seats last year.

 

Back on topic.  OP, do yourself a favor.  Get as much HCE as you realistically can.  The younger folks in my class, while extremely smart, sometimes struggle with things that someone with a couple of years of decent HCE would fine intuitive.  It does make things easier to understand if you can combine recognition of processes with book smarts.

[wesr_gordon]

I have a pretty good GPA, good extra curricular programs on my resume, volunteered in an ED, was an unpaid clinic aide for a PT clinic, shadowed various physician assistants... when I applied last year I only applied to programs that didn't require HCE. 

 

I was invited to two interviews (both cancelled because the class/waiting list was already full), three had filled up before my CASPA was ready (do it early!) and then the remaining six all said no. When I followed up with the 'no' schools all said that while HCE wasn't required there are just too many candidates that have HCE that apply that have a leg up. 

 

This time I sat out on applying and decided to get HCE hours. I'd suggest the same.

[rcreek]

Most people on this forum are big advocates of having HCE.  I had 3 years when I applied, but once I got in, I found that most of my fellow PA students had really minimal HCE, with many only having volunteered and others having jobs just in the lab or pharmacy with no real pt contact. ...

 

I have found the same to be true when I was accepted, and I think it is a huge detriment to the PA profession for these programs to accept students with little HCE. It has and will continue to have negative consequences on the PA profession. Many (not all) of my fellow applicants had very limited patient care exposure, and here I was with several years of experience - mostly in the Emergency Department. This was especially true of programs on the East Coast.

 

Sure, there are still those who got in with low HCE hours and became great PA's, but I can't help but be very opinionated and frustrated about this. I think it is a major crisis. The whole idea of the PA profession is to take people who have already proven themselves in patient care and provide them with the education needed to take it a step further. If we don't want to move towards a doctorate or mandatory residencies then we need to correct this problem fast.

 

I believe all programs should set a 2,000 hour minimum requirement for paid, direct patient care experience.

[Hedgehog24]

rcreek -- FWIW, I'm definitely planning on doing a residency after graduating from PA school (surgery). Since PA (like MD/DO) residents are at least paid, it seems like a no-brainer. 

 

Does anyone know of any programs out there that that are somewhat known for accepting applicants who don't have much experience, or who only have it as some sort of health professions student? At this point, I just want to apply and see what happens; the way I look at it is even if I'm rejected from every school I apply to, I'll just get more experience and then re-apply the following year. 

[BestUserEver]

I have found the same to be true when I was accepted, and I think it is a huge detriment to the PA profession for these programs to accept students with little HCE. It has and will continue to have negative consequences on the PA profession. Many (not all) of my fellow applicants had very limited patient care exposure, and here I was with several years of experience - mostly in the Emergency Department. This was especially true of programs on the East Coast.

 

Sure, there are still those who got in with low HCE hours and became great PA's, but I can't help but be very opinionated and frustrated about this. I think it is a major crisis. The whole idea of the PA profession is to take people who have already proven themselves in patient care and provide them with the education needed to take it a step further. If we don't want to move towards a doctorate or mandatory residencies then we need to correct this problem fast.

 

I believe all programs should set a 2,000 hour minimum requirement for paid, direct patient care experience.

Because you've done a study that correlates HCE prior to becoming a PA with performance as a PA?

[tunafish]

you would seriously consider starting applying to med school at 37? I am the same age. Worked all my life in medical research and can't justify starting that late

[goldstar97]

Sounds like being a PA is for a specific group of people with HCE only.

[Blue Goose]

Sounds like being a PA is for a specific group of people with HCE only.

 

Historically, this was true, but things have changed.  check out the accepted applicants stats page-you will find people accepted to good programs with very little HCE.  That being said, I don't think there are any schools that will admit a student with 0 hours of experience.  Check out this thread:

 

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/index.php?/topic/28-basic-emt-training-a-good-intro-to-health-care/

 

I would recommend getting an EMT-Basic license, it will open doors to other jobs.  Look at community colleges, you get credit for completing the class.  There are many EMT jobs, especially in 0-hour/as needed schedules.  I don't know if transferring to your facility's infirmary is an option, but if it is, you could earn HCE while continuing to work there (assuming that is something you want to do).  HCE, especially if you don't need tens of thousands of hours, really is doable.  Good luck.

[UGoLong]

Please! 37 is not nearly too old to go to PA school. I graduated when I was 60. Age is not the issue; really understanding what you want to do is.

 

From experience, I feel that sitting in a room and deciding to become something that you have had very little exposure to generally is not successful. HCE should be viewed as more than just a rite of passage; it's a chance to see what being in that environment would be like and develop critical skills. It would be hard to stand in front of an admission board at age 37 and say that you are certain that you want to become a PA but have no first-hand knowledge of what the job or the environment in which it exists are really like.

 

You're only 37. I became a volunteer in a hospital ER at 38, a volunteer EMT at 40, a part-time paid EMT-I at 46, a night school student at 51, a part-time paid paramedic at 56, and a PA student at 58. Getting to your goal is a process and one you can follow while you continue to live your life, make a salary, raise your family etc. It doesn't have to take you as long as it took me, but I would recommend against trying to short-circuit the inner process. 

 

Good luck!

[WanderlustPA]

I came in with 0 hours of HCE, and while I feel like it would have been great to get some experience if time and money were more favorable, I do not feel like it has held me back at all.  Sure, there are some things where the people with HCE don't really have to study that I do, but it's not really a huge difference, and I don't mind putting in the effort anyway.  It's not a stretch by any means.

[Timon]

37 isn't too old to apply or to get healthcare experience. I don't understand why you can't do both.  I have a wife and daughter and when I decided to become a PA a very good job in business and then decided to sell the house and quit the job to become a PA.

 

Lots of people in my class are older. We got maybe 12 of us in our 30's, about 6 people in their 40's and about 4 more in their 50's. Most of us weren't working in healthcare prior to making the change and snagged some experience before applying. You can get certifications as fast as 2 weeks. You can even work part time while working full-time or completing your prerequisites that are outdated.

 

Either way, you are right in that people who apply to PA school are a specific bunch of people. Most of us are usually a little older and get some type of experience along the way to apply. This is why PA school has been different than Med School from the get go. We can rely on our life experience to relate to our patients. I think being corrections officer is great life experience and would help make you a well-rounded clinician. I think getting HCE will make you even greater.

 

I think getting HCE is something you should work towards, but I wouldn't let it hold you back from applying. There is no reason why you can't apply while you're still working on your application and credentials. As a matter of fact, if you aren't constantly improving your stats I'd say you're probably going about it wrong.

 

Best of luck!

[EMEDPA]

I have found the same to be true when I was accepted, and I think it is a huge detriment to the PA profession for these programs to accept students with little HCE. It has and will continue to have negative consequences on the PA profession. Many (not all) of my fellow applicants had very limited patient care exposure, and here I was with several years of experience - mostly in the Emergency Department. This was especially true of programs on the East Coast.

 

Sure, there are still those who got in with low HCE hours and became great PA's, but I can't help but be very opinionated and frustrated about this. I think it is a major crisis. The whole idea of the PA profession is to take people who have already proven themselves in patient care and provide them with the education needed to take it a step further. If we don't want to move towards a doctorate or mandatory residencies then we need to correct this problem fast.

 

I believe all programs should set a 2,000 hour minimum requirement for paid, direct patient care experience.

agree with above. the trend of accepting students with little or no healthcare experience has resulted in graduating PAs who are not as good as those who graduated in the past with experience. I am in a position to evaluate new PAs and I see those with and without experience at their first job on a regular basis. the folks with HCE hit the ground running with minimal help required. most of those without hce require at least a year of serious babysitting. The only studies that have been done to date compare pance rates which have almost nothing to do with how good a clinician someone is. passing pance means you can memorize facts, it doesn't mean that you have mastered skills or the interpersonal dynamics of good patient care.

[whoRyou]

My question is why would you NOT want to get HCE beforehand? It  just does not make sense to me. Why you would want to skip this opportunity or just get the bare minimum? How do you know you are going to 'enjoy' medicine if you do not experience it first hand? Or better yet, let's use this scenario ... You get accepted into a PA school. YEAH YOU! Now you are done with your didactics. YEAH YOU! Now comes the fun part, 'clinicals'. For the first time you experience blood or better yet you see a beating heart and you pass out. All of sudden you realize you have made a horrible mistake - this is NOT for you. What now? What are you going to do? You invested money, time, someone seat etc etc

[Just Steve]

While you have no health care experience, you have at least 15 years experience working in a high stress environment with a focus in small team management, critical thinking, de-escalation tactics, situational awareness, personnel management, and overall life experience.  These attributes will benefit your cause in your pursuit by letting the various AdComs that you have faced the real world, survived, and determined to improve your quality of life.   Get some experience, but don't kill yourself for a couple of years waiting for the perfect job. 

[Latina PA]

As an older student and a Biology major also,  I know its not easy to get HCE hours...... but is not impossible.  I found a way to get mine even if they were unpaid. I didn't get over 1000 but I got quality hours at a free clinic for the undeserved.  Good thing about volunteering at a free clinic is that they will take as much help as they can get.   As a volunteer CNA, MA or EMT you can tell them you are available one day a week (or whatever) and they will take you on because they are not paying you and they need the help.  Its a win/win situation.  You get your HCE hours and they get free labor.   I think working with patients before you get into PA school is a MUST.  You need to see what you are getting into and see if this is your calling.  

Maybe you will not be able to get 2000 hours, but get as many as you can.

I have been accepted this cycle and I am 43.......will start PA school at 44 and I am a single mother of 3..........it can be done!!

[rcreek]

Because you've done a study that correlates HCE prior to becoming a PA with performance as a PA?

 

No study needed to assert something so obvious as the fact that prior HCE does everything to work in your favor, especially because 2 years is a very short time. I reiterate - I am not saying that there aren't those that go on to become great PA's without the prior HCE, but I am convinced that you can learn so much actually working hands on in the healthcare arena that you otherwise have a harder time with as a student. It's like EMEDPA said, without the prior HCE you have a steeper learning curve (requiring excessive babysitting) when you step into that first job as a PA. There is an important element to patient care that can not be taught.

 

I have seen quite a few PA students doing their clinical rotations in our ER, and I go out of my way to talk to them. Some have had ample experience beforehand and it definitely shows. A few have not, and when they leave I hear what the nurses and ER physicians have to say about them, and it usually isn't good. Then the PA bashing starts. It really is unfortunate and unprofessional, but that's what happens. I long for the day when they finally hire a PA (it will be because they have to, for revenue reasons) who can hit the ground running, take charge of their patients, and show rest of the healthcare team that he/she is worth their salt.

 

On the other hand - the NP students so far have all been nurses for a very long time and as a whole have come across very confident and sociable. Good thing my opinion of the PA profession is not based solely on these encounters. I recently had to defend my choice of the PA profession to some coworkers who were telling me that NP's have more of the clinical experience beforehand, so they should be able to take on more responsibilities than PA's. I explained the fact that many PA students do in fact have many years of prior experience.

 

I just think that about 2,000 hours is a good pre-requisite for a PA program. If we are going to treat entrance to PA school like medical school, with little HCE required, then we better just bend over and make our programs longer, and then REQUIRE residencies and CAQ's. I already think it is going to happen and am preparing for that.

 

goldstar97, I'm sorry - I didn't want to hijack your thread at all. If PA is your goal I know you can do it. UGoLong is really an inspiration and proof that no matter your age, you can accomplish great things. Good luck!