Medical Scribe count for PA School?

[pos1221]

Hi,

I was wondering since PA school require health care experience. Do PA schools count medical scribes for health care experience? I would appreciate it if someone could let me know. Thanks!

[abarc12]

Not all schools will accept it, so be sure to check with the schools you plan on applying to! My primary experience was as a medical scribe in primary care, and I was fortunate to be accepted to 4 schools this year (in my first cycle applying)! So it definitely counts for some, but not for all.

[karebear12892]

It counts for some schools, but not others. In my opinion, schools who do not consider medical scribing to be sufficient healthcare experience are extremely mistaken and missing out on some very qualified applicants. I'm a first year PA student and I spent two years working as a medical scribe in the emergency department. It is incredible how much clinical knowledge you gain from the scribe experience. Highly recommend it! 

[rrodriguez]

Agree with the above. Currently I scribe in FP, OBGYN and peds. Prior to that I was a scribe in the ED. You see a lot as a scribe and the experience gained working with diff. EHRs, working through pts from start to finish, etc is invaluable. If your program(s) accept scribing as adequate experience, I highly rec'd it as well.

[EMSGuy1982]

It counts for some schools, but not others. In my opinion, schools who do not consider medical scribing to be sufficient healthcare experience are extremely mistaken and missing out on some very qualified applicants. I'm a first year PA student and I spent two years working as a medical scribe in the emergency department. It is incredible how much clinical knowledge you gain from the scribe experience. Highly recommend it!

I don't really agree with this. Sure it qualifies as HCE but I believe PCE (actually touching/ interacting/ in charge of an actual patient) is more valuable. I have heard of scribe positions where you interact with a patient more than just being in the back of the room clicking away and typing on an EMR. You are correct though, some schools do accept it as HCE. Mostly schools that only require less than 200 hours which is a whole different can of worms... I went to a program in the NW that asks for at least 4K hours of HCE at a minimum. "Extremely mistaken" is little over the top. The schools that don't accept it have been around for some time and just choose not to. Congrats on getting in! It's a long and tough journey but it is totally worth it.

[EMEDPA]

also not a fan of scribe experience. it's exposure without interaction or responsibility.

[Lyrical M]

If you have the opportunity to work as a scribe, especially in a setting where you'd work with multiple different doctors (like an ER), I HIGHLY recommend it.  Not only do you learn a wealth of information about how charts are written, how histories are taken, how exams are performed, medical terminology, medical decision making, differential diagnoses, and the thought processes behind all that, but you also get to experience that with various providers that have various backgrounds, styles, and approaches to patient care.  This can give you a leg up on the clinical/critical thinking skills that only come with experience.

At the same time, I think being an EMT or doing some other type of hands-on experience where you have the patient care under your hands, is very important too, so you can gain the experience and confidence of having that responsibility. 

 

If you can manage to do both, perhaps each part-time, I think that'd be the best possible experience pre-PA (assuming you don't have higher-level licenses like nurse or paramedic).

[future_pa 6135]

I have experience as a scribe and as an EMT and can say that each experience was valuable in it's own way, however I learned way more from scribing than as an EMT. It would probably take me 10 months to learn what I can learn in 1 week from being a scribe, and that's only if I take the initiative to look things up on my own. 

[EMSGuy1982]

I have experience as a scribe and as an EMT and can say that each experience was valuable in it's own way, however I learned way more from scribing than as an EMT. It would probably take me 10 months to learn what I can learn in 1 week from being a scribe, and that's only if I take the initiative to look things up on my own.

Not sure where you've worked as an EMT. Sure, if you worked as an EMT on a cabulance I would agree that scribe>EMT. Having experience as an EMT/Paramedic sets you up on many levels to be a successful PA. Not just in getting into school. I worked 13 years as an EMT prior to attending PA school. Spending years giving reports to physicians, developing the "team approach" to medicine. Developing the ability to keep your cool when $hit hits the fan is also something that can be developed as an EMT. The ability to keep cool when a patient is screaming at you for narcotics is something developed. As a scribe when it hits the fan your pushed to the back of the room while you keep clicking away on your EMR. Having clinical gestalt is imperative, sick vs. not sick. I guess what it comes down to is being the one responsible for the patients care, having a direct impact on patient outcomes. This is something as an EMT you can take part in, being a scribe you cannot. It's doing (EMT) vs watching (scribe)

[future_pa 6135]

Not sure where you've worked as an EMT. Sure, if you worked as an EMT on a cabulance I would agree that scribe>EMT. Having experience as an EMT/Paramedic sets you up on many levels to be a successful PA. Not just in getting into school. I worked 13 years as an EMT prior to attending PA school. Spending years giving reports to physicians, developing the "team approach" to medicine. Developing the ability to keep your cool when $hit hits the fan is also something that can be developed as an EMT. The ability to keep cool when a patient is screaming at you for narcotics is something developed. As a scribe when it hits the fan your pushed to the back of the room while you keep clicking away on your EMR. Having clinical gestalt is imperative, sick, not sick. I guess what it comes down to is being the one responsible for the patients care, having a direct impact on patient outcomes. This is something as an EMT you can take part in, being a scribe you cannot. It's doing (EMT) vs watching (scribe)

 

To each their own, I was simply referring to my own experience. EMT experience can differ considerably depending on location and local protocols. In my opinion, what scribing lacks in regards to responsibility is more than made up for in educational value. As a scribe in the ER, I was able to witness every aspect of patient care from triage to disposition for thousands of encounters ranging from prescription refills to cardiac arrest. I saw countless H&P's taken, reviewed imaging and laboratory studies of patients, recorded consultations and re-evaluations, saw providers make diagnoses and prescribe medications and witnessed clinical decision making in real time. I saw dozens of procedures first hand: I&D's, suturing, fracture reduction, endotracheal intubation, central lines, cardioversion, etc. I watched how providers interacted with nurses, techs, patients, and their families. I gained an appreciation for the nature of the PA-physician relationship. I was able to pick the brains of PA's between cases to see what they were thinking and get to know them on a personal level. I became familiar with dozens of medications and the language of medicine. Not only that, but I learned how to write an HPI, ROS, PE, assessment & plan and became familiar with how to navigate an EMR. It's so much more than just "clicking away". 

[south]

I was both a scribe and EMT as well.  I am a huge fan of working as a scribe; it's experience that I would have actually paid for, and it got me accepted at my school - they told me that flat out at my interview.  I saw how they interacted with providers, and the charting experience, and I had to have it.  It has come in very handy years down the road.  It can be a really tough gig though! (especially for the minimum wage).

 

However, it's not widely accepted as HCE, or at least high quality HCE, nor should it be, and that probably won't change.  A better plan, if you can, is to combine "smell the patient" (volunteer/scribe) experience with "touch the patient" experience (EMT/CNA/tech/etc).  Even a short period of both seems to me a deadly combination.  My opinion only, but it worked for me.

[pride7]

I agree with south , if you are going to use scribe as your HCE try to find another HCE like MA or CNA. I worked as a scribe for 1-1.5 yr in the emergency dept. then a few months before applying to PA school started working as a MA in an internal medicine practice. Here are a few things I can tell you:

1. I took medical terminology after scribing and never used the book because there was not a single word I had not already heard in the ER.

2. I was able to transition from being a scribe to being an MA because of the confidence and knowledge i was able attain in the ER. All they had to directly teach me to be an MA was how to use their BP cuff, how to use their EHR, and how to give vaccines, do finger sticks, EKGs etc... All things quite frankly that you can learn in 1 day.

3. After becoming an MA i could see why programs want you to have hands on experience because you can think you are comfortable touching and interacting with patients but it is different to actually do it. With that said however, If i had to choose the position that I learned most from, scribe wins by a loooonnngggg shot.

 

I loved my job as a scribe because it was learning overload. I love my job as an MA because our patients are so sweet and I have great coworkers. I think both jobs played a role in me getting in to PA school.

[CC1]

My primary health care experience before PA school was scribing and I was accepted at most of the schools I applied to (I was waitlisted at one). I HIGHLY recommend scribing if it is in the ER! I feel like I have an advantage over several of my classmates because I have been exposed to the common diseases in almost every organ system that we are learning. I was also able to see the physician's thought process from the initial assessment to the final disposition. It also shows schools that you are capable of handling a high stress environment as the ER can get pretty intense.

 

You also get to know a variety of doctors (and sometimes PAs) really well so it is a great opportunity to get rec letters. You meet some of the doctors and PAs in specialties that frequently give consults in the ER such as surgery or ortho, so it is a great way to meet practitioners that you could potentially shadow if you want more shadowing hours in a particular specialty. It also gave me plenty to talk about during my interviews and I was told by many schools that "we love scribes." Another advantage of scribing is that it is really easy to get hired by one of the major scribing companies that staff ERs across the country even if you have no prior health care experience. They are always loosing employees that quit when they get accepted to medical/pa school so they are pretty much hiring year round. I felt like when I looked into MA positions they were a little harder to get if you haven't worked in health care previously. 

 

With that said, on CASPA scribing has to be listed under non patient contact health care experience so if the schools you are applying to have a minimum number of direct contact health care hours this will not help you reach that minimum. One way to get around that would be asking a local clinic if you could volunteer a few times and take the patients' height, weight, and blood pressure and that technically would count as hands on experience to meet the minimum. In my experience, that was enough to satisfy the schools that I applied to. 

 

Lastly, while I highly recommend scribing in the ER, I am not sure that the same advantage of being exposed to a variety of common medical conditions would apply to a scribing position in a specialty clinic. I am not sure if I would recommend taking that kind of a position. 

[CC1]

One more thought- If you do end up scribing, put in the effort to get the most out of the experience. Look up any diagnosis, medication, lab result, ect. that you come across. Look at the patient's Xrays and CT scans and ask the doctor you're scribing for what made them lean towards one diagnosis over another. You'll have a great experience either way but you'll thank yourself for going above and beyond when you get to PA school and you already know a lot of the information you're learning!

[EMEDPA]

I understand why folks like scribing. it is like great shadowing and you get paid to talk about cases, but it really should not be confused with hands on experience where you do things yourself  on your own initiative and take responsibility for your actions as they impact lives. everything a scribe does is over read by the pa or the doc they work for. they make no independent decisions like a paramedic, nurse, or resp therapist does every day. a bad day for a scribe is a bunch of typos and you have to rewrite a note. a bad day for a paramedic is mistaking sepsis due to pneumonia for CHF and giving diuretics and vasodilators to someone who is already dry , resulting in their death or significantly extending their hospital course. that is a mistake you don't make twice, trust me, I've done it.

I read somewhere that an expert is someone who has already made all the possible mistakes in a narrow field. learning is about making mistakes, then not making them again. that is part of the value of real hce. you can learn a bit from someone else's mistake, but you will likely forget it until you do it yourself and see the bad outcome and feel the fear in your gut that it was your fault.

[pleasepleaseplease]

On 1/17/2017 at 5:24 PM, abarc12 said:

Not all schools will accept it, so be sure to check with the schools you plan on applying to! My primary experience was as a medical scribe in primary care, and I was fortunate to be accepted to 4 schools this year (in my first cycle applying)! So it definitely counts for some, but not for all.

 

On 1/18/2017 at 5:35 PM, south said:

I was both a scribe and EMT as well.  I am a huge fan of working as a scribe; it's experience that I would have actually paid for, and it got me accepted at my school - they told me that flat out at my interview.  I saw how they interacted with providers, and the charting experience, and I had to have it.  It has come in very handy years down the road.  It can be a really tough gig though! (especially for the minimum wage).

 

However, it's not widely accepted as HCE, or at least high quality HCE, nor should it be, and that probably won't change.  A better plan, if you can, is to combine "smell the patient" (volunteer/scribe) experience with "touch the patient" experience (EMT/CNA/tech/etc).  Even a short period of both seems to me a deadly combination.  My opinion only, but it worked for me.

Which schools did you end up being admitted to / which ones highly valued the scribing experience? I'm compiling my application list now and this information would be highly useful! 

[Guest polishedpas]

As a medical scribe in the ER for the past 2 years, I'd just like to say that although I've often been "pushed to the back of the room while clicking away on my EMR," I've also had thousands of hours worth of working directly with many PAs, basically being their right hand. No, my main job was not taking vitals, helping patients get into or out of their beds, inserting IVs or performing CPR during codes, but the amount of knowledge I've gained has been PRICELESS. Like someone mentioned previously, I would've paid for this experience instead of being paid for it. I obviously cannot speak for EMTs, RTs, CNAs etc and their specific benefits, but what I can say is that no other position would've given me greater insight to the PA profession. For me, that in itself has made it worth it. Idk how else I'd be so sure that I want to start PA school in 2 weeks if I hadn't spent 10-12 hours a day working side by side with a PA, watching them develop treatment plans and care for patients from the moment they walk in to the moment they walk out (or get admitted). 

I have been fortunate enough to work with amaaazing PAs that have always taken the time to teach me during downtime, and to always explain the reasoning behind a treatment plan when time permitted. I also got some sweet LORs out of it :D

As limited as the job may seem to some, it has certain advantages that no other job can offer. If these are the advantages you're looking for in terms of being prepared for school, I highly recommend it. I applied to schools this past cycle along with 2 other scribes that worked with me. After some thorough research, we found that only 4/22 schools we were interested in did not accept scribing. (We all ended up being accepted, btw).
And if you do choose this route, make sure you describe your experiences in great detail in both CASPA and your interviews. My program director was very pleasantly surprised to find that I worked mostly with PAs in the ER. He was under the impression that PAs weren't given scribes, as that was his experience when he worked in emergency.

Ideally you'll want to pair scribing with something more "hands on," like some have mentioned. But please don't underestimate or discount it! I promise you, it's worth it.

Ps: I recommend starting out in ER, but I have also worked in many outpatient clinics such as family medicine, urology, pediatric neurology, plastic surgery, etc. Get as much exposure as you can!!!

[Patricia5827]

Another scribe here, people who have not had the experience are not aware of the knowledge it can provide you with. Now, I am NOT saying that this should be your only experience when applying to PA school, which is what I think other people are trying to say. This is a great experience to learn physiology and how it applies to medicine in a real setting, but EMT and other hands on care would be great to have as well

[Lyrical M]

I think in the end, we should not see it as "scribe versus EMT," but rather agree that it's best to do both.  They're both uniquely valuable, and different such that any argument saying one is better than the other would be true when looked at from that angle.  You can do both, either in succession, or (my preference) at the same time, either by doing them both part-time (what I did), or work three 12-hour shifts in one and PT/per diem in the other.

[Potatolife]

On 1/17/2017 at 6:24 PM, abarc12 said:

Not all schools will accept it, so be sure to check with the schools you plan on applying to! My primary experience was as a medical scribe in primary care, and I was fortunate to be accepted to 4 schools this year (in my first cycle applying)! So it definitely counts for some, but not for all.

What schools did you apply to?

[Potatolife]

On 1/21/2017 at 0:06 PM, pride7 said:

I agree with south , if you are going to use scribe as your HCE try to find another HCE like MA or CNA. I worked as a scribe for 1-1.5 yr in the emergency dept. then a few months before applying to PA school started working as a MA in an internal medicine practice. Here are a few things I can tell you:

1. I took medical terminology after scribing and never used the book because there was not a single word I had not already heard in the ER.

2. I was able to transition from being a scribe to being an MA because of the confidence and knowledge i was able attain in the ER. All they had to directly teach me to be an MA was how to use their BP cuff, how to use their EHR, and how to give vaccines, do finger sticks, EKGs etc... All things quite frankly that you can learn in 1 day.

3. After becoming an MA i could see why programs want you to have hands on experience because you can think you are comfortable touching and interacting with patients but it is different to actually do it. With that said however, If i had to choose the position that I learned most from, scribe wins by a loooonnngggg shot.

 

I loved my job as a scribe because it was learning overload. I love my job as an MA because our patients are so sweet and I have great coworkers. I think both jobs played a role in me getting in to PA school.

Wow, I'm literally in the same position you were! I've been an ER medical scribe for almost a year and I'm beginning a medical assistant position next week to expand my experience. I'm glad I came across your comment, because it definitely relates to my current situation. I agree with your comment :)