Best way to get scribe job?

[paforward]

I got a job as a scribe in a private clinic, which I believe was due to luck. I didn't get a single call to any of the hospitals I applied to and this might've been due to the fact that I was NOT in an agency. (Many of my friends who are scribes right now started out with agencies like Elite or Scribe America and are in hospital work.)This was very discouraging to me at first and I had spent months wondering if I should have joined an agency (despite all the bad reviews.)

 

Now, I really enjoy my clinic work and wouldn't trade this experience for anything. AND I'm getting paid more than what most scribes start out with. Which also might be because I had the chance to negotiate my salary due to it being a privately owned clinic, and they manage my pay with their own budget. (I can't speak for this for sure, but this was just my experience).

[db_pavnp]

both true and very sad. this is one reason many of us are going into education. that trend needs to be reversed....I may lose this fight, but will remain steadfast in my opposition to low level hce for the bare min # of hrs...

 

I feel it is gonna be a helluva fight to turn this around.  I don't want to write endlessly on myself, but in my opinion the current employment landscape is extremely punishing on the older student.  I have worked for hospitals since 2006 and have been told that money is too tight for raises for half of those years while my home is worth a third less than it was and PA programs are bragging about their executed divorce and break-up rates among students.  It's just too easy to build a brutal program that takes a 24yr old CNA with a 3.8 and endless loans.

[EMEDPA]

agree about the loan situation. it's insane for folks to go 250k in debt for pa school and this is not that uncommon. my entire program's tuition was 30k at a private school program.

There are still some excellent programs out there with less than 60k tuition.

If I was looking at 250k of debt it would be medschool or nothing.

my entire educational process (2 BS, medic school, MS, 3 post-ms certificates, and a doctorate) was less than 100k.

[LESH]

I wish I could find the numbers again, but there was that semi-recent survey of first year PA students regarding their previous HCE.  Over 50% had CNA experience, if I recall, 10% phlebotomy, and so on.

 

http://www.paeaonline.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/161775

[Nonlegit]

I've never been sucked into this one before, but there is a first time for everyone.

 

Count me (NOT A PA) as one of those that simply can't wrap my head around thinking becoming a scribe would be a good way to go about getting HCE. I have worked at multiple hospitals in multiple capacities, often alongside scribes, and I just can't make the connection. I'm not gonna make any distinction on skills or anything like that, and one of my best friends is a scribe so i'm not bashing the profession....but our jobs are not the same. They're barely similiar.

 

Its even more hard for me to understand since everywhere I go, working clinically is better in many tangible ways (more hands on if thats what you want, bene's, more jobs overall, better opportunities, not being some random peeon in a physician group, etc).

 

If its all you can do, or it really seems to fit a niche for you, then do it I guess. My friend is doing it because his job is the equivalent to being a security guard at night in a suburban mall (ie RELAXING). I don't know about advocating for it as a GOOD way to get HCE. Maybe as a back-up plan? As far as what kind of PA it makes you, I'm not one so I can't speak to that. My buddy is going to a much better med school than I could ever get into so I imagine he will be fine.

 

Told him the other day we were gonna start a "flush war" and I was gonna spray someone at work,  and even though I was holding a saline flush in my hand, he asked what a "flush" was... been at the hospital for about a year now full time...hahahaha so

[GatorRRT]

If you've never been involved in a "flush war", you aren't doing it right.

[oval_97]

I've never been sucked into this one before, but there is a first time for everyone.

 

Count me (NOT A PA) as one of those that simply can't wrap my head around thinking becoming a scribe would be a good way to go about getting HCE. I have worked at multiple hospitals in multiple capacities, often alongside scribes, and I just can't make the connection. I'm not gonna make any distinction on skills or anything like that, and one of my best friends is a scribe so i'm not bashing the profession....but our jobs are not the same. They're barely similiar.

 

 

I'm not an EMT, a PA, or even a PA-S at this point.  Just a hopeful, and given my current post-Bacc load and my completion timetable, one who's unable to get an EMT-B license or experience before application time.  I'd love to, and looked into it before I even started down this path, but the only truly local course is offered 1x a year starts in May and finishes in September.  The next closest options are all 3+ hour round trips 2-3x a week.  It's just not feasible.  I've looked into the hybrid/online programs and none of the intensive skills workshops lineup with the 5 days of vacation I get between my last final and the start of my summer courses.  

 

So yeah,  EMT would be my ideal, but my only option for HCE right now is to leverage some of my connections and do some shadowing and whatever work I can do in an ER that doesn't require a certification or intensive training.  If I don't get in this round, I'll definitely take one of the accelerated courses and try and find an EMT job somewhere that pays a living wage and build up lots of hours for next time.  

 

That said,  I don't know if the right question is whether an EMT or ER Tech or whatever position is held out as superior HCE is the same as a scribe or CNA/CMA. Of course they're not.  Can they both provide quality, albeit different, HCE? I think so.  I'd argue the question isn't the quality of the HCE the position provides, but the quality of the candidate in the position and those surrounding them.  My mom's an EMT, but the bulk of her experience after years of working for a rural ambulance service is dropping a bunch of obese diabetic frequent fliers off at the doors of the ER. She has no idea what the ultimate dx for the patients ends up being, or the ultimate treatment and resolution of the case might be.  

 

A medical scribe on the other hand,  doesn't get to the experience of using practical hands-on skills on a patient.  They maybe can't intubate, or find a vein to save their lives, but I know plenty of doctors who can't either.  They will get to see the inner workings of the doctors/PA's/nurses brain.  See when and what tests they order, see what vitals and combinations of vitals trigger alarm, etc.  An observant and curious pre-PA in a scribe role can acquire a massive and diverse amount of knowledge by simply paying attention, and with a co-operating clinician asking questions about what triggered a certain diagnostic or differentials or why they prescribed a broad-spectrum vs a narrow spectrum antibiotic. If it's too busy to ask those questions, there's always google or a forum such as this.  No you don't get decision making authority, but you can always be thinking what you would do in the situation and figuring out why the physician did or didn't go that route.  

 

I'm sure having the "right" HCE can be a massive benefit to a PA, especially during clinical year, but I believe rather than the actual job title, it's whether they maximized that opportunity for learning that will  best predict their success before and after graduation.  

[Nonlegit]

I'm not an EMT, a PA, or even a PA-S at this point.  Just a hopeful, and given my current post-Bacc load and my completion timetable, one who's unable to get an EMT-B license or experience before application time.  I'd love to, and looked into it before I even started down this path, but the only truly local course is offered 1x a year starts in May and finishes in September.  The next closest options are all 3+ hour round trips 2-3x a week.  It's just not feasible.  I've looked into the hybrid/online programs and none of the intensive skills workshops lineup with the 5 days of vacation I get between my last final and the start of my summer courses.  

 

So yeah,  EMT would be my ideal, but my only option for HCE right now is to leverage some of my connections and do some shadowing and whatever work I can do in an ER that doesn't require a certification or intensive training.  If I don't get in this round, I'll definitely take one of the accelerated courses and try and find an EMT job somewhere that pays a living wage and build up lots of hours for next time.  

 

That said,  I don't know if the right question is whether an EMT or ER Tech or whatever position is held out as superior HCE is the same as a scribe or CNA/CMA. Of course they're not.  Can they both provide quality, albeit different, HCE? I think so.  I'd argue the question isn't the quality of the HCE the position provides, but the quality of the candidate in the position and those surrounding them.  My mom's an EMT, but the bulk of her experience after years of working for a rural ambulance service is dropping a bunch of obese diabetic frequent fliers off at the doors of the ER. She has no idea what the ultimate dx for the patients ends up being, or the ultimate treatment and resolution of the case might be.  

 

A medical scribe on the other hand,  doesn't get to the experience of using practical hands-on skills on a patient.  They maybe can't intubate, or find a vein to save their lives, but I know plenty of doctors who can't either.  They will get to see the inner workings of the doctors/PA's/nurses brain.  See when and what tests they order, see what vitals and combinations of vitals trigger alarm, etc.  An observant and curious pre-PA in a scribe role can acquire a massive and diverse amount of knowledge by simply paying attention, and with a co-operating clinician asking questions about what triggered a certain diagnostic or differentials or why they prescribed a broad-spectrum vs a narrow spectrum antibiotic. If it's too busy to ask those questions, there's always google or a forum such as this.  No you don't get decision making authority, but you can always be thinking what you would do in the situation and figuring out why the physician did or didn't go that route.  

 

I'm sure having the "right" HCE can be a massive benefit to a PA, especially during clinical year, but I believe rather than the actual job title, it's whether they maximized that opportunity for learning that will  best predict their success before and after graduation.  

I know where you are coming from, which is why I have a couple caveats in my original post. I totally understand your situation, and would never look down on you if you were a classmate; I'm sure we would both be busy just trying to stay afloat.

 

I think where the PAs tend to rankle is when people use your argument and then conclude that being a scribe is among the "ideal" types of experience.

 

Its why I was reticent to ever jump into this debate, as I can only attest to one side of the argument, on top of not being a practitioner in the first place.

 

I do have a sentimental side to me though...where I wonder how the learning curve would be for those who had never put hands on a patient or made a care decision for them.

 

How do you react when you are first exposed to something, like pee splashing on your arm from the toilet, or the postictal homeless guy that spits blood in your face? What happens when you go to turn or otherwise move somebody, and you accidentally hurt them, even just a little? Ever been involved in a case that ends up an M&M? Its a difficult situation. What about an unsolvable medical issue that you are ultimately responsible for? We had a 900+ pounder the other day that couldnt be turned and he needed cleaned up. What then? I could go on and on, but I always imagined that PA school and subsequent practice would probably give zero $hits how many lines I have started, but would likely value my "been there before" attitude, knowledge, and humility.

 

For all the lack of exciting runs your mother has been on, I wouldn't doubt that she had to at least have some basic contingency plans for if her GOMERs crashed in the back of her bus, or if they hit her up for narcs, bus pass, fruit punch and pudding with a BG of 800, or whatever. Thats part of it too.

 

Lowly tech, out.

[DreamsRPossible]

Could we go back to the original question posted, rather than debate its validity? I've been reading these posts, seeking answers to the thread name, but am finding none. Perhaps others could start another thread titled, "Is medical scribe decent HCE?" and even post the link here if you're concerned that people would be wasting their time, and leave this thread for its original intention. I, for one, would like to know the answer.

 

Why? Because I'd like to add it to my existing HCE since meeting a scribe. What she has learned seeing a doctor treating all kinds of conditions has been priceless. Besides hearing the questions he asks in various situations over & over, she has learned much about medical treatments and drugs. And one of her coworkers, also a scribe, just got into an excellent school.

 

Looking over a doctor's shoulder for so many hours can't be a bad thing. It doesn't substitute for hands-on care, nor decision-making, but it's useful, & the original post merits a reply, albeit with caveats.

[Teacher2PAC]

http://scribeamerica.com/blog/the-ultimate-preparatory-vocation-towards-becoming-a-physician-assistant-medical-scribe/

[Teacher2PAC]

No need for scribe certification. I scribe through a hospital and free clinic. I never went through a big program. I found I get more hands on medical experience at the free clinic because I am also an EMT-B. When the RNs are unavailable, I take over some of their work. At the hospital, however, I have gotten exposure to many medical professional. This is a great "foot in the door" experience that really cannot hurt you if you do it. If PA schools accept it, it is a plus. I would suggest adding this on to other experiences to get the full benefits and for better exploration.