Anyone know PA schools that COUNT scribe work?

[c0untingstars]

Arcadia University

[c0untingstars]

Arcadia University

[Guest]

Drexel does

[Guest]

Drexel does

[Guest]

Drexel does

[okadam]

During my interviews, I met a few scribes at Yale, Duke, Rosalind Franklin, and Midwestern. Not sure though if they had other healthcare experience in the past that kind of balanced everything out though...

[okadam]

During my interviews, I met a few scribes at Yale, Duke, Rosalind Franklin, and Midwestern. Not sure though if they had other healthcare experience in the past that kind of balanced everything out though...

[okadam]

During my interviews, I met a few scribes at Yale, Duke, Rosalind Franklin, and Midwestern. Not sure though if they had other healthcare experience in the past that kind of balanced everything out though...

[wesr_gordon]

Wow thanks for all the schools guys. I was getting kind of discouraged by how many weren't accepting it.

[EMEDPA]

"accept" and "value" are different concepts however. think of scribe as the min possible criteria and know you are competing with folks who have the same grades as you + better quality experience...

[wesr_gordon]

"accept" and "value" are different concepts however. think of scribe as the min possible criteria and know you are competing with folks who have the same grades as you + better quality experience...

 

Very true, now that I'm working as one I can't believe there isn't more esteem in being a scribe for apps. I'm also an EMT and I must say that scribes are there for the entirety of the patient visit from assessment to discharge including labs, tests, interventions, and prescriptions, not to mention their communication with other providers. In general aside from oxygen, wound care, a handful of assisted meds, EMTs I don't think are getting as good of experience.

[Timon]

Very true, now that I'm working as one I can't believe there isn't more esteem in being a scribe for apps. I'm also an EMT and I must say that scribes are there for the entirety of the patient visit from assessment to discharge including labs, tests, interventions, and prescriptions, not to mention their communication with other providers. In general aside from oxygen, wound care, a handful of assisted meds, EMTs I don't think are getting as good of experience.

 

You really think scribe is better than ER Tech?

 

Or for that matter EMT-B on a 911 rig BLS or AlS/BLS?

 

 

just curious...................

[EMEDPA]

the issue is the other positions are hands on. emt's and others decide "I will do xyz". scribes are mobile transcriptionists. they make no independent decisions. they don't touch pts.

it's basically shadowing while typing. sure you can learn a lot about how docs think but you can't apply it yourself. application(and making mistakes) is how you learn. watching a central line getting started is very different than doing it yourself. there is no "muscle memory". there are lots of things that become easy based on practice. you can watch something a thousand times but until you try it yourself you won't ever learn how to do it right.

that is why the experience is not valued by many individuals and programs.

[KCMA79]

There is a big difference between the laying on of hands and observing and taking notes.

[EMEDPA]

There is a big difference between the laying on of hands and observing and taking notes.

yup. my point exactly. both have value but watching can't replace working with patients directly...

[ToppDog]

MEDEX now lists scribe work as acceptable HCE.

[EMEDPA]

medex now lists scribe work as acceptable hce.

probably only for the ms option....and remember, just meeting the min(especially at a place like that) does not get you an interview....look at their experience requirement(4000 hrs) vs their actual avg for accepted students(8000 hrs).

[ToppDog]

probably only for the ms option....and remember, just meeting the min(especially at a place like that) does not get you an interview....look at their experience requirement(4000 hrs) vs their actual avg for accepted students(8000 hrs).

 

I agree. They actually have a list of what is considered competitive HCE, & a list under that of what is considered acceptable HCE. Scribing is in the acceptable category. It seems to be a perfect example of your quote earlier in this thread:

 

"accept" and "value" are different concepts however. think of scribe as the min possible criteria and know you are competing with folks who have the same grades as you + better quality experience...

[missclarissac]

I was an ER Scribe for 6 months and accepted in major PA programs in TX... UT Southwestern, UTHSCSA, and UNTHSC.

[Guest]

As someone who was a scribe AND an ER tech, I found scribing job to be the most beneficial, at least for didactic year. Sure I know some skills from teching that we will "learn" next term but as far as patient care, scribing was it.

[Timon]

I don't know.. To me it's one thing to write what's occurring and another to be there involved in the process. I'm saying this as when I initially asked my question just after finishing my 12 hour ER shift which included holding a patients butt cheeks open for 45 min watching the doctor do an I&D and earlier that day watching an intern do an I&D and I ended up coaching them through it because they didn't know what to do. And that's the case most the time for most procedures because they are told about it but they aren't there to see it or be apart of it.

 

I mean I enter orders, enter labs, setup all treatments / procedures, in the room holding the patient or helping the doctor or nurse, give aftercare instructions / patient education, do the initial triage on patients, there for every code in the hospital, transport and watch the diagnostic imaging being performed, not to mention doing EKGs / Splints / Wound Care / etc.

 

Often when I ask what the doctor or nurse wants me to do they tell me to use my own judgement and to document it in the chart. And anytime there's an injury or a situation that requires an EMT (like if someone not a patient or employee gets injured) I'm the hospital EMT so I respond with my backboard / 500 yard bag and run the show since its considered prehospital at that point.

 

So I just have a hard time thinking being a scribe is better than EMT. I ask the doctors all the time what's going on with this patient? And they usually (happily) educate me on the differential diagnosis and the differences in treatments / pathophysiology.

 

So help me better understand what I'm missing here.

[wesr_gordon]

I don't know.. To me it's one thing to write what's occurring and another to be there involved in the process. I'm saying this as when I initially asked my question just after finishing my 12 hour ER shift which included holding a patients butt cheeks open for 45 min watching the doctor do an I&D and earlier that day watching an intern do an I&D and I ended up coaching them through it because they didn't know what to do. And that's the case most the time for most procedures because they are told about it but they aren't there to see it or be apart of it.

 

I mean I enter orders, enter labs, setup all treatments / procedures, in the room holding the patient or helping the doctor or nurse, give aftercare instructions / patient education, do the initial triage on patients, there for every code in the hospital, transport and watch the diagnostic imaging being performed, not to mention doing EKGs / Splints / Wound Care / etc.

 

Often when I ask what the doctor or nurse wants me to do they tell me to use my own judgement and to document it in the chart. And anytime there's an injury or a situation that requires an EMT (like if someone not a patient or employee gets injured) I'm the hospital EMT so I respond with my backboard / 500 yard bag and run the show since its considered prehospital at that point.

 

So I just have a hard time thinking being a scribe is better than EMT. I ask the doctors all the time what's going on with this patient? And they usually (happily) educate me on the differential diagnosis and the differences in treatments / pathophysiology.

 

So help me better understand what I'm missing here.

 

I don't think you're missing anything. My point is scribe requires a lot more knowledge than the people who just write it off as "glorified shadowing." Those people are usually the same ones that have never done it... Remember I'm an EMT as well so I am not anti-EMT by any means. I just think with regard to those on a rig, there are independent decisions being made but they are 'pre-hospital' and aren't there for the doctors assessment, labs, scans, tests, treatments and diagnosis. When it comes to PA I can't believe that experience in the hospital is less valuable than experience that doesn't always take place in the hospital setting.

 

I understand touching a patient is different than charting on them, however I also think it's bizarre that people enter medical school with research and having never touched a patient while some PA schools think scribing is below them.

[Timon]

I understand touching a patient is different than charting on them, however I also think it's bizarre that people enter medical school with research and having never touched a patient while some PA schools think scribing is below them.

 

Completely agree with you. It's painful to watch the interns and DO students at my hospital. Always fumbling, don't know what is what, too scared to ask questions because they want to be know it alls. Often times I have to leave the room because I don't want to speak out of turn when I see them struggling.

 

I admit I know squat, but I've seen a lot and something's I feel I can do on my own already with just 1 year of ER Tech experience under my belt because I've seen it done so many times. I honestly can't imagine getting into this field without knowing what you're getting yourself into first, especially when you are the decision maker.

[Guest]

With scribing it is not glorified shadowing because after you do it for a few months you start developing knowledge base of what to order. Often I found myself asking the doc if he wanted this lab test or that radiology test. Many I was right on target. You also learn structure of the chart by heart. Some long timers scribes actually have the nerve to correct doctors when they tell them to order tests that don't make sense (mind you, that is after a trust between scribe and doc has been long established and docs actually love it, at least where I worked). I hate that scribing has such a bad reputation on this forum. I firmly believe that without scribing I would NOT be in PA school. While it was scribing that got me the ER tech job, I got interviews BEFORE I started working as a tech. So, while I had tech experience, it was not counted on my application.

 

It's funny that PA schools teach us that you should have a pretty good idea of pt's diagnosis after H&P alone, but then scribing is suddenly a sub-par experience. In the ER I worked at, techs had NO TIME to figure out what the heck each test is about, or look at the results, or learn anything from the experience. It was draw blood, do EKG, clean up this, clean up that over and over again. However, when you scribe, you talk to doctors and PA's, and have time to figure out test results. By my last scribe days I was able to interpret some radiology findings, and make a correct diagnosis more times than not ("Hey doc, can I put xxxx as the diagnosis?" --- "Sure thing!"). I believe this is why scribing counts in a lot of schools.

 

ps.. hope this post makes sense. I am sleep deprived before big neuro exam tomorrow :)

[EMEDPA]

Scribes learn to take a history but never touch a pt....the p part of the h+p.....