Double Helix-7 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hello, I will be shadowing a PA around tomorrow and hopefully they will allow me to do that for a little more than 24 hours. It has been so hard to find an available PA where I'm from. Anyway I'm wondering if there is anything that I should be expecting? Or what should expect? The PA works in the cardio office of the hospital so I'm guessing we'll be making rounds to see different patients. I have a list of questions to ask. What would be appropriate? Should I be shooting her questions as we go or about how much is much? I don't want her to feel like I'm interrogating or something! Just unsure since I don't think I should just follow her around without questions? should I ask her some of the potential interview questions? And about how many hours of shadowing would be appropriate before I ask her for a letter of recommendation? What would be the best way to go in about doing that? do you guys have some questions that I should ask? I'm always curious. Thank you in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM2016 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Number one thing. Stay out of the way. They are extremely busy and we are slowing them down. Do not bombard her with questions. Write down really important ones you want an answer to and ask them when you see she is not too busy or makes conversation with you. I would say just expect to literally be her shadow and awkwardly following her every step lol. Don't ask for a LOR from someone who does not know you so ask after you feel like she has a understanding of who you are and what you have done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I am a cardiology PA and have lots of students come shadow. My day is very busy and I suspect so will your preceptor's. Just pretend that you are shooting a movie of what his or her life is like. Watch and be quiet most of the time. Don't ask questions just to show that you are interested. When there is quiet time, feel free to ask whatever you want. You are mostly there to learn. I wouldn't go asking for a letter of recommendation until towards the end. I can't believe that 24 hours in one stretch is enough to ask for much other than to say you were there! I have written letters of recommendation for shadowers, but I don't think we know them very well until we can see how they learn and that takes time. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Helix-7 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Thank you guys for your input. Today went good. The PA that I shadowed were doing consults and discharges on some of the patients. I observed some MD-PA dynamic, and she did talk about some of that. As you said, she was quite busy, so I didn't really ask many questions other than when we were walking or some quiet time. She is a very talkative person though, which made her more approachable. But I feel like I'm doomed in thinking I'll get a LOR from her or any PA that I shadow. I do agree 24 hours of shadowing doesn't seem enough for an excellent LOR. But what else can I do to have that one LOR being from a PA? And as the new cycle is nearing closer I feel like I'm getting a bit desperate and even hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sto27 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 ...But I feel like I'm doomed in thinking I'll get a LOR from her or any PA that I shadow. I do agree 24 hours of shadowing doesn't seem enough for an excellent LOR. But what else can I do to have that one LOR being from a PA? And as the new cycle is nearing closer I feel like I'm getting a bit desperate and even hopeless. I'm in the same boat as the OP. I've shadowed two different PAs but both of them only permitted me to shadow for a few hours. They explained to me that they couldn't feasibly allow me to shadow them any more than that because they were just so busy with seeing patients, charting, etc, which I completely understand. However, it is getting increasingly difficult to find a PA that will permit me to shadow long enough for them to get to know me. Between the busy schedules of most PAs and the fact that many hospitals are now eliminating shadowing altogether due to HIPAA violations, I have almost no way to obtain a LOR from a PA... And I too am planning to apply at the start of this CASPA cycle. Does anyone have any suggestions/recommendations as to the best way to establish rapport with a PA? And yes, I've tried www.pashadowonline.com but there are hardly any available PAs in the North Jersey region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I originally answered this as a private message but it sounds like others might want to see it too: When I applied, there was not a requirement at any of the schools I applied to to get a letter from a PA. I did get one from someone who knew me in the healthcare experience part of my life. The shadowing is crucial because, without it, you don't really have a good idea about what a PA does. It's probably not going to be with anyone who will get to know you well enough to write a good letter. In my case, I had three letters: 1. The training officer from the EMS unit I worked with part-time. 2. A good friend (and senior executive) from a non-medical job I had who could talk about my work ethic 3. An instructor from one of my classes who could talk about how I did in class. I don't know if you can extrapolate that to your experience or not, but probably. If you're young (I wasn't!), it may be really easy to get letters from professors who know you. I am hoping you have some healthcare experience outside of the shadowing and there is probably someone there who can comment on your patient care attributes. And somewhere along the line, there are probably people who knew you at a job where you had to come through, be prompt, interact well with teams of people, etc. If you had time, you could shadow the same PA for more than a shift and see what they might write for you, but I think I'd probably go for people who know you better. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmanjr Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I felt the same way as many of you above about getting an LOR from the PA I shadowed the problem is there are a few schools who require a LOR from PA. I had to ask a PA I shadowed for 30hrs to give me an LOR that I wasn't entirely comfortable asking for.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM2016 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I felt the same way as many of you above about getting an LOR from the PA I shadowed the problem is there are a few schools who require a LOR from PA. I had to ask a PA I shadowed for 30hrs to give me an LOR that I wasn't entirely comfortable asking for.. did he/she say yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Helix-7 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'm in the same boat as the OP. I've shadowed two different PAs but both of them only permitted me to shadow for a few hours. They explained to me that they couldn't feasibly allow me to shadow them any more than that because they were just so busy with seeing patients, charting, etc, which I completely understand. However, it is getting increasingly difficult to find a PA that will permit me to shadow long enough for them to get to know me. Between the busy schedules of most PAs and the fact that many hospitals are now eliminating shadowing altogether due to HIPAA violations, I have almost no way to obtain a LOR from a PA... And I too am planning to apply at the start of this CASPA cycle. Does anyone have any suggestions/recommendations as to the best way to establish rapport with a PA? And yes, I've tried www.pashadowonline.com but there are hardly any available PAs in the North Jersey region. Exactly. The PA that I used to shadow was so busy that she isn't even available anymore and it has been one year since I last shadowed her. She was really great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2013 I felt the same way as many of you above about getting an LOR from the PA I shadowed the problem is there are a few schools who require a LOR from PA. I had to ask a PA I shadowed for 30hrs to give me an LOR that I wasn't entirely comfortable asking for.. That can go well or very badly. it's either "student spent 30 hrs with me as required and seems to want to be a pa" or " student was genuinely interested in the pa profession, asked insightful questions, and will make a fine pa someday". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine57 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 That can go well or very badly. it's either "student spent 30 hrs with me as required and seems to want to be a pa" or " student was genuinely interested in the pa profession, asked insightful questions, and will make a fine pa someday". Yeah, but for schools that REQUIRE you to have one LoR from a PA, one may have no choice. You'll just have to hope the rest of your app can make up for that non stellar rec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Helix-7 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 So I'm thinking about asking the PA I shadowed and who I will be shadowing again soon (only 24 hours max) about what she thinks writing me a LOR. Would it be OK to see if I can get a copy of the LOR from my nursing supervisor/CRN, have her sign it or send her the email so that she'll know a little bit about me? Or perhaps my personal statement? I did have a physician offering to sign a LOR by having me write my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2013 ideally one gets a LOR from a pa they have worked with or volunteered with. I have written some great ones for folks who volunteer with me at the local free clinic and some really crappy ones that basically just attest to hrs for folks who show up for 1 shift then ask for a LOR at the end of it; "john was here for 8 hours in the ER at xyz hospital observing PA practice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM2016 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 ideally one gets a LOR from a pa they have worked with or volunteered with. I have written some great ones for folks who volunteer with me at the local free clinic and some really crappy ones that basically just attest to hrs for folks who show up for 1 shift then ask for a LOR at the end of it; "john was here for 8 hours in the ER at xyz hospital observing PA practice". WOW people actually have the nerve to ask for a LOR after 8 hours?! What can you possibly learn about that person in 8 hours other than their name.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackjacks Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I had a couple PAs offer LORs after a day. Many know that schools require one from a PA, and someone could have a great HCE job but not work with PAs. You give the PA a copy of your CV and a "resume" where you've basically written the LOR. Luckily I didn't have to do that, not the most ethical when you're checking the "waive right to view" box on CASPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoRyou Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 ... You are mostly there to learn. I wouldn't go asking for a letter of recommendation until towards the end. I can't believe that 24 hours in one stretch is enough to ask for much other than to say you were there! I have written letters of recommendation for shadowers, but I don't think we know them very well until we can see how they learn and that takes time. Good luck! You can thank HIPAA for this :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmanjr Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He did since he's a really super guy who I would love to have as a mentor in the future. He also seemed to really enjoy having me shadow him and also respected me for traveling 1 1/2 hrs by bus to shadow him and even coming when I was displaced from my home after Sandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmanjr Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Many PA's want to help students who they think will make great PA's out as they know how hard it can be to find shadowing in parts of the country. I think an LOR like that is useless but if you need a PA LOR and it's the only way to get one you don't have much of a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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