LECOM question, looking for actual attendee if possible.

[BearDown]

Looking for others who have actually attended LECOM 

I received an acceptance but Dr. T***** left a nasty taste in my mouth during the interview. I honestly felt like I was going to be blackballed from ever attending the school again; so in short, I'm a bit shocked. 

Can anyone give me insight on how he is after you are actually in? (I hesitate to commit to this place when he has so much control over the APAP studies)

I have been fortunate to receive 2 med school acceptances but this one of course is the far more financially reasonable; just trying to actually access what the best option is.

Much appreciated. 

 

*Edit: My seat is one of the 6 undecided seats

Edited March 21, 2023 by BearDown
clarity

[PAtoMD]

My friend had a similar experience with someone at LECOM, i think it was whoever was in charge so it appears its the person you were talking about. 
 

Someone on here is a recent APAP grad so they can tell you.

 

Are you other acceptances DO? Cause if you have an MD you should take it.

 

congratulations on the acceptances. 

[BearDown]

3 hours ago, PAtoMD said:

My friend had a similar experience with someone at LECOM, i think it was whoever was in charge so it appears its the person you were talking about. 
 

Someone on here is a recent APAP grad so they can tell you.

 

Are you other acceptances DO? Cause if you have an MD you should take it.

 

congratulations on the acceptances. 

I guess I am to the point where prestige matters less and being a bit more financially savvy matters more; I want pulm crit and feel confident I could get there either or. Do you work prn while in school?

[PAtoMD]

20 minutes ago, BearDown said:

I guess I am to the point where prestige matters less and being a bit more financially savvy matters more; I want pulm crit and feel confident I could get there either or. Do you work prn while in school?

Prestige or not MD will open more doors than DO when comes time to apply to residency. But if it’s a discussion of which DO to go to the big 5 or whatever they are the only ones you’d pick over another.

 

 

no I don’t work. I prioritized research and hoping to be a very competitive match applicant and spend time with my spouse and child. I don’t think I’d have much time to work with that anyway and for no change in my QOL 

[ventana]

What do they call the person that graduated last in their med school class??

 

Doctor

 

 

 

go with cheap..... unless you want research or academia.  If you are going to practice in the trenches just get through as fast/cheap as you can

[iconic]

EM (as is IM) is extremely uncompetitive nowadays and can do fellowship in CC

Edited March 27, 2023 by iconic

[newton9686]

Depends on what you are interested in terms of your barrier to entry. Classically specialities like  Neurosurgery, Plastics, Vascular, Dermatology and probably opthalo have been very unfavorable even with similar stats and research experience for DOs compared to MDs. ENT and Urology are matchable as a DO, but you have to be willing to go to traditional DO residencies in places like MSU or Philadelphia. Success matching outside these programs is variable. Recently Anesthesia and Radiology have all been very unfavorable for DOs with Match rates for Anesthesia in the 50s and Radiology in the 20s. This is particularly unfortunate because these are specialities which traditionally took DOs, but as they have become more desired due to lifestyle have again become competitive. ER is a free-for-all right now. I could match into Harvard due to concerns that the sky is falling after one report. However CC and sports is very competitive as a fellowship so if you apply ER you have to be willing to work ER. 

Generally after going through the process I strongly recommend MD over DO if you have the option due to these match limitations if you any interest in more competitive specialities. Also the emphasis on the “theory” of osteopathic medicine takes up a considerable amount of your time. Even more as a prior PA when you have already been introduced to a lot of the clinical medicine. You will spend a lot of time on largely meaningless pathology slides, stains, immunology, etc regardless of choice. So it can fell like you are studying too much BS with only a sprinkle of clinically relevant medicine when you add OMM. Its just not worth it, especially if you have ADHD and cant just memorize random facts and have to organize and understand the material. 

But generally agree, tuition should be one of the top considerations, but you also have to really consider the deliver of material as a PA and the curriculum. For example with LECOM I know you lose that first summer to clinicals. Most programs you are off and I made close to 30-40k doing locum shifts and could of made more. 

Also if attendance is not required and you can watch lectures online this allows you to easily work 10-20 hours a week, especially if you are a strong student which again can change the financial ratio.

If I were to reapply I would of retaken the MCAT (all programs care about is you have a 508 or better regardless of your clinical experience), picked somewhere you can do most lectures online and gone MD for the reasons stated above. Thankfully we go changed to no mandatory attendance for most lectures 2nd year which largely saved me. Its that important when med school burns you out after already having done this once with PA school and having to jump through even more hoops. And I think continuing to work is important for a lot of PAs because it provides self worth and reminds them why the hell they are doing this in the first place. 

 

 

 

[eze8923]

Class of 2018 graduate here.

I can't necessarily speak to the current state of the program (Dr. T), as Dr. K looks to no longer be the APAP director.

If your plan is pulm crit/CC, I agree with the others that you have multiple avenues to get there, and the DO likely won't be a huge make-or-break barrier IMHO (vs. plastics, ophthalmology, etc).

11 hours ago, newton9686 said:

Recently Anesthesia and Radiology have all been very unfavorable for DOs with Match rates for Anesthesia in the 50s and Radiology in the 20s.

Granted this was a while back, but our class did well matching into anesthesia and IR actually - all got into our first choices. For one stretch, APAP graduates matched into Hopkins anesthesia 3 out of 4 consecutive years (one who ended up being a chief resident). I acknowledge the numbers/percentages, but for residencies who are familiar with APAP and take the time to understand the background of its graduates, an APAP applicant isn't necessarily the average DO residency candidate. I will say that there were definitely barriers to getting residencies to understand (e.g. why I was applying for away audition rotations for the first summer between CA-1 and CA-2 years) and the testing timeline (assuming this hasn't changed) was extremely challenging (granted Step 1 is now pass/fail), so there are definitely more factors that play in obviously.

It's not impossible to match into these competitive residencies, but we were able to effectively fight the uphill battle like crazy and make it happen (one might say)... you will have to fight hard for it though if it's what you're shooting for.

In retrospect, would I have done it the same way, if I had to do it over again? A conversation for another day...

[PAtoMD]

18 hours ago, newton9686 said:

Most programs you are off and I made close to 30-40k doing locum shifts and could of made more. 

Dang racking in 15/20k a month? Have you signed up for step/COMLEX yet?

 

Nonetheless OP, as the above stated that are enduring or have gone through it have implied there are a lot of factors in deciding. 

If you only have DO acceptances, take the cheapest unless you got into a top 5 DO.

Take the MD if you have it. 

The match is getting more competitive and DOs are finding themselves at a disadvantage for many fields. Again, its not impossible to match but there are hurdles for DOs that many MDs do not have to face. That is a consideration. 

 

Best of luck.

Edited March 28, 2023 by PAtoMD

[newton9686]

Yeah 35-40k that summer. I think i finished around 70k for the year as a full time student. I’m a bit of a workaholic who doesn’t always need a lot of sleep but it’s doable if you don’t have mandatory attendance. I also haven’t focused on research so there’s that. If I wanted to match neurosurgery or IR I don’t think I could work as much. But I think the other PA in my class did a little more than me. He said he’s gotten close to his prior salary picking up shifts. So you don’t have to give up your whole salary.

Also I’m a hospitalist PA in rural medicine who also taught A&P as a community college. If you were an Ortho PA who spent the last 7 years making bones straight again you’d probably have to spend more time relearning basic medicine. And my friend who’s ER also was first a pharmacist. So your background does affect your work abilities. 

I’m scheduled in early May to do Step 1 and Level 1. I’m a pretty good test taker so I’m not too worried about passing. Trying to crush Step 2 will be a different challenge. But come 3rd year i probably won’t be able to work as much so I’ll be in the same boat studying as everyone else. 

I do wish anesthesia and radiology had the same match rates as 2018. Radiology especially went crazy when everyone figured out AI wasn’t going to take over. Literally it went from FMPs matching a couple years ago toone of the worst match rates in all of medicine. This is my opinion but I still think PAs still have a strong chance in matching anesthesia especially if you have a strong general/internal/surgical background because that is hard to replicate and sought after. 

there’s also a difference in being willing to match wherever you get in and trying to pick a speciality not as competitive so you have a better likelihood of being in a preferred geographical location. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by newton9686

[PAtoMD]

17 minutes ago, newton9686 said:

Yeah 35-40k that summer. I think i finished around 70k for the year as a full time student. I’m a bit of a workaholic who doesn’t always need a lot of sleep but it’s doable if you don’t have mandatory attendance. I also haven’t focused on research so there’s that. If I wanted to match neurosurgery or IR I don’t think I could work as much. But I think the other PA in my class did a little more than me. He said he’s gotten close to his prior salary picking up shifts. So you don’t have to give up your whole salary.

I’m scheduled in early May to do Step 1 and Level 1. I’m a pretty good test taker so I’m not too worried about passing. Trying to crush Step 2 will be a different challenge. But come 3rd year i probably won’t be able to work as much so I’ll be in the same boat studying as everyone else. 

I do wish anesthesia and radiology had the same match rates as 2018. Radiology especially went crazy when everyone figured out AI wasn’t going to take over. Literally it went from FMPs matching a couple years ago toone of the worst match rates in all of medicine. This is my opinion but I still think PAs still have a strong chance in matching anesthesia especially if you have a strong general/internal/surgical background because that is hard to replicate and sought after. 

there’s also a difference in being willing to match wherever you get in and trying to pick a speciality not as competitive so you have a better likelihood of being in a preferred geographical location. 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice sum of cash. 

Let me know how step goes. I take mine in June. 

Good luck!

[eze8923]

Quote

I’m scheduled in early May to do Step 1 and Level 1.

Good luck with them - all the best the rest of the way!

Edited March 28, 2023 by eze8923

[BearDown]

appreciate the insight everyone.

Going to stay local in Virginia where my connections actually are despite the extra cost and trust my gut.

both were DO and on an MD waitlist. Just taking the bird in hand and moving forward with the local school no matter what. 

I get the whole DO/MD thing but only see it in the premed environment. Just like no one cares where I went to Jefferson as a PA student it wont matter on the other end either. 

Best to luck on step^

[dfw6er]

Almost without exception, the APAP students match into the specialty of their choice.  Almost without exception COMLEX and USMLE scores of APAP students are considerably higher than the traditional 4-year students. If you know what specialty you want to match into and have connections in that field or have worked in that specialty and study hard you will kill Level 2 and Step 2 and will match.  If you have your heart set on Derm/opthalmology then you better have prior experience and pubs/research and/or know faculty at a residency....or as mentioned before....choose a traditional 4-year school and get busy on publications and networking.

As for Dr. Thomas....he's not a warm and fuzzy guy and he's not there to hold your hand. If you wind up in one of the primary care slots the only way to get out of it is to convert to 4 year status. He will not budge.  The first A in APAP stands for accelerated. There is a lot accelerated about it....no summer breaks.  Taking Level/Step 1 and turning around for Level/Step 2 just a few months later.  Trying to get your audition rotations in before ERAS opens, etc.  It's a whirlwind, but it's totally doable.  You'll save a year of time and tuition which gets you making attending money a year sooner.  

The residency programs that have matched APAP students previously know about the high quality product the APAP program produces.  Apply broadly, have a backup if you're applying to a super competitive field...which is what traditional 4-year students do anyway.  

OMM is a PITA.  Every DO student has to go through it. We all basically abandon it after medical school.  It is what it is. I got through it after nearly 2 decades of PA practice. You can too.  Once you take Level 3 you'll never need to memorize Champman points, VIscerosomatic levels, or setup for reciprocal inhibition treatment of a flexed, rotated right, sidebent right L3 vertebra ever again. 

I'd do it again, same way.  No doubt.  A 4 year program just wasn't worth it to me at all.