Help! Salary Negotiation

[Monte]

Hello!

New grad here with a job offer in private practice in internal medicine, outpatient. 

Let me know what you think!

$95,000

Massachusetts private practice - 40 hour average work week, salary based. Phone call rotating every 3 weeks, A Saturday 8AM-12PM work day every 3-4 weeks where those hours will be compensated during the week. 

HMO Blue health insurance, 50%

Licenses/DEA, etc paid

I was assured all CME needed will be covered, will make sure that's in the contract. 

Vacation - Up to 4 weeks

Personal/sick time - 5 days

401k and dental pending, but not initially present. 

 

Thanks!  I have only dealt with big hospitals until this point so any advice is good. 

 

[Colorado]

Salary??

-Is it exempt/non-exempt/hourly?

-Will you get additional pay for call or for saturday work beyond your base salary?

-Productivity or other bonus structure?

-What is the process for getting a raise etc.? How often do you have reviews?

 

Regarding benefits:

-CME should be time off and some form of reimbursement. Even if it is like $500/a few days off per year to start.

-Vacation PTO: Get that written down. Not just "depending on MD approval", because then you are putting not only your free time in someone else's hands.

-If you/your family need vision insurance (or kids who need orthodontic care), vision and dental insurance would be VERY important. Paying out of pocket for dental care for yourself only isn't too expensive in my experience, but these are benefits to be expected as a professional in the industry.

-Health insurance: ~$500/mo. for insurance??!! Thats rent dude! I think 100% covered insurance is above average, but insurance should really only be running you a max of ~100 something/month.

-Ask when benefits kick in.

[Monte]

3 hours ago, Colorado said:

Salary??

-Will you get additional pay for call or for saturday work beyond your base salary?

-Productivity or other bonus structure?

They want me to fire first with salary so that's why I'm reaching out for opinions. They didn't mention extra pay for the Saturdays but I can ask. No mention of productivity or other bonuses, but I can ask if that's proper for a new grad to do. I also think that I will have to pay around $4000 out of my salary for my half of insurance.. what should I do about that?

[anewconvert]

You should figure out what you think is your “I accept” number and add $5k to it so you are covered for your insurance plus the taxes associated with paying for it... that’s what you should do about it

 

Mass isn’t a cheap place and they are tacking on an extra four hours plus admin time every “3-4 weeks” which you have to assume means every three weeks, that’s functionally another week worth of pay...

 

add in the ridiculous CME, “physician approval” to your vacation, no stated 401k, minimal insurance benefit and then $5k to pay for your insurance.... I wouldn’t take this job for less than $100k a year out of school, and I am guessing this doc will say “you are a new grad!” and think you are only worth $85k. 

 

Id tell them you need more definitive information about the offer before you can consider it. The salary would need to be pretty stellar and the mentoring pretty solid imo

[jpshoe]

2 minutes ago, anewconvert said:

You should figure out what you think is your “I accept” number and add $5k to it so you are covered for your insurance plus the taxes associated with paying for it... that’s what you should do about it

Would you recommend adding anything extra in case they counter? Say you want 95k so you say 100k hoping for a counter of 95? Sorry to briefly thread jack but I figure it can help! 

[anewconvert]

3 minutes ago, jpshoe said:

Would you recommend adding anything extra in case they counter? Say you want 95k so you say 100k hoping for a counter of 95? Sorry to briefly thread jack but I figure it can help! 

What I’m saying is that the OP needs to figure out a price they can live with, then add $5k, THEN ask for more for negotiating room. I think, with everything else about that offer in consideration, that the ask number, to get to the accept number, is going to be so high the doc will probably not even bother with a reply. 

 

[Monte]

32 minutes ago, anewconvert said:

You should figure out what you think is your “I accept” number and add $5k to it so you are covered for your insurance plus the taxes associated with paying for it... that’s what you should do about it

Id tell them you need more definitive information about the offer before you can consider it. The salary would need to be pretty stellar and the mentoring pretty solid imo

I'll take your advice and probably ask for 100k. Today I emailed him asking about CME and other details. The last job I was considering pulled the same stunt - how much do you need to be paid? This job was in the middle of Boston and had a huge COL.. I said 105k and their response was that AAPA salary reports aren't really accurate and that the budget was 85k..

 So hopefully this goes better. Honestly I just need a job at this point, I'm tired of sitting on my hands and my real passion is emergency medicine so I just need a stepping stone to get rid of the new grad label!

[PAtoB]

as a new grad I had 5 offers and only one was in the 80s. imo no new grads today should accept anything less than low 90s for full-time hours in any specialty. And especially in a high COL state like Mass. As a new grad, be wary of any contract/offer that isn't specific on the key points, too.

[jeepgirl]

On 2/16/2018 at 4:34 PM, Monte said:

I'll take your advice and probably ask for 100k. Today I emailed him asking about CME and other details. The last job I was considering pulled the same stunt - how much do you need to be paid? This job was in the middle of Boston and had a huge COL.. I said 105k and their response was that AAPA salary reports aren't really accurate and that the budget was 85k..

 So hopefully this goes better. Honestly I just need a job at this point, I'm tired of sitting on my hands and my real passion is emergency medicine so I just need a stepping stone to get rid of the new grad 

Why not get a job in EM if it's your true passion?

I'm about 4 months out from graduation. I was initially of the mindset that it would be hard to find an EM job as a new grad, so I have been applying broadly. I'm now in the hiring process with a national EM group. 

It helps if you're flexible with location.

[Monte]

23 hours ago, jeepgirl said:

Why not get a job in EM if it's your true passion?

I'm about 4 months out from graduation. I was initially of the mindset that it would be hard to find an EM job as a new grad, so I have been applying broadly. I'm now in the hiring process with a national EM group. 

It helps if you're flexible with location.

I want to, trust me. I'm applying within a 50 mile radius, which, I know isn't a lot but it's the best I can do. I graduated three months ago so I just can't sit on my hands too long! 

I'm also supposed to hear back from this position today so I'll update then!

[Monte]

Initial post updated, let me know what you think!

[jeepgirl]

Looks like a solid offer. Did you decide to take it?

[camoman1234]

On 2/18/2018 at 11:18 AM, PAtoB said:

as a new grad I had 5 offers and only one was in the 80s. imo no new grads today should accept anything less than low 90s for full-time hours in any specialty. And especially in a high COL state like Mass. As a new grad, be wary of any contract/offer that isn't specific on the key points, too.

Your statement that "no new grads today should accept anything less than low 90s" is not accurate. It has been discussed over and over about statements like this and this does not reflect very low COL areas (like mine). If you haven't read those posting then go back through the forum and read up, or look up COL around the USA. I am at 94K with OK benefits and I am almost 4 years out of school. I am getting paid ~25K more a year than my previous position, both in RHC Family Medicine. All new grads. need to look at the salary report, join their state chapter so you can talk with other PAs about salary, etc, and post on forums like this one to discuss if you are getting screwed or not. These statements of don't take anything less than 90K is crap because that does not work in all areas of the USA. Also, is it a 1099 or W-2 position, what are the benefits, etc. Lastly, new grads need to look the entire package as well as quality of life (very important).  

[Monte]

1 hour ago, camoman1234 said:

Your statement that "no new grads today should accept anything less than low 90s" is not accurate. It has been discussed over and over about statements like this and this does not reflect very low COL areas (like mine). If you haven't read those posting then go back through the forum and read up, or look up COL around the USA. I am at 94K with OK benefits and I am almost 4 years out of school. I am getting paid ~25K more a year than my previous position, both in RHC Family Medicine. All new grads. need to look at the salary report, join their state chapter so you can talk with other PAs about salary, etc, and post on forums like this one to discuss if you are getting screwed or not. These statements of don't take anything less than 90K is crap because that does not work in all areas of the USA. Also, is it a 1099 or W-2 position, what are the benefits, etc. Lastly, new grads need to look the entire package as well as quality of life (very important).  

I get that, but it's an easy blanket statement for the majority of the U.S. Jobs in downtown Boston, Massachusetts where single bed apartments are $2500/mo shouldn't be offering 85k like they have been to me.

[anewconvert]

On 2/28/2018 at 3:11 PM, Monte said:

I get that, but it's an easy blanket statement for the majority of the U.S. Jobs in downtown Boston, Massachusetts where single bed apartments are $2500/mo shouldn't be offering 85k like they have been to me.

But they can in DT Boston because people want to live there.  The not-so-secret secret of getting paid in medicine as a whole, but as a PA in particular, is to go where people don't flock to live.  Rural PA's in healthcare provider shortage areas get paid more to live in a lower COL areas, and they have money thrown at them by the state and federal governments to pay off student loans.  

 

If you want to live in Boston, or New York, or Chicago, or LA, or Seattle, etc. then either you need to have a lot of experience or be willing to accept a lower standard of living relative to your level of training and education.  It's an oddity of medicine but the pay, particularly for newer providers, is in areas where there are fewer patients and, importantly, fewer providers.  

[Monte]

.

[PAtoB]

On 2/28/2018 at 1:23 PM, camoman1234 said:

Your statement that "no new grads today should accept anything less than low 90s" is not accurate. It has been discussed over and over about statements like this and this does not reflect very low COL areas (like mine). If you haven't read those posting then go back through the forum and read up, or look up COL around the USA. I am at 94K with OK benefits and I am almost 4 years out of school. I am getting paid ~25K more a year than my previous position, both in RHC Family Medicine. All new grads. need to look at the salary report, join their state chapter so you can talk with other PAs about salary, etc, and post on forums like this one to discuss if you are getting screwed or not. These statements of don't take anything less than 90K is crap because that does not work in all areas of the USA. Also, is it a 1099 or W-2 position, what are the benefits, etc. Lastly, new grads need to look the entire package as well as quality of life (very important).  

"Especially in high COL states like Mass."

I personally don't understand why so many New Yorkers accept such shitty pay around NYC. If they didn't, the pay would go up. I've had a couple of classmates state they never look at their paychecks, know idea what an RVU is let alone what are their RVUs at their work, etc. That drives me crazy.