jmj11 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Okay you savoy ER-types, I'm looking for an office AED, but with the capacity to use it as a continuous monitor (while I give IV therapy) AND the ability to do 12 lead ECGs with computer interpretation. I've been shopping and found one that will do the first two but not all three. Does such a device exist . . . and for under 5 grand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FfIghter23 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 One we use in cardiology office and I've seen in ER's is Zoll M-Series Interpretive 12-lead Machine. Used/Refurbished one will be around $5,000. Only thing cheaper will probably be a Medtronic Lifepak 12, which is mainly used pre-hospital obviously, but can be used in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 24, 2012 Okay you savoy ER-types, I'm looking for an office AED, but with the capacity to use it as a continuous monitor (while I give IV therapy) AND the ability to do 12 lead ECGs with computer interpretation. I've been shopping and found one that will do the first two but not all three. Does such a device exist . . . and for under 5 grand? you probably want a high end lifepak but it will cost you more than 5k. might just be easier to have 2 less expensive devices: an aed for around 1000 dollars and separate ekg machine which you can buy used on ebay. the lifepaks that do everything you want also include pacer functions, etc and are probably more than what is needed in your setting. you will pay A LOT less if you are willing to get an ekg machine without interpretation. anyone with chest pain, etc in your office you are going to send out anyway and what the interpretation gets you is subtle findings-often over-read-( I assume you need interpretation for first time triptan users?). read your own ekg's. do a bit of self study and you won't miss anything significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richpac Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 jmj11- I agree with EMDPA in that $5K might come up a bit short, especially for what you are really wanting from a device. However, with a quick Google search and found Progressive Medical Inc.. PMI (just one of many brokers) has a whole line of refurbished units at about a quarter of what these units go for new. I did find both a refurbished Physio/Medtronic Lifepack 12 with AED, Pacing, 12-lead, NIBP and SPO2 for $6500.00 and a Zoll M series with the same stuff for $7500.00 (they added ETCO2, which you likely don't need but critical in EMS). Either of these units are perfectly suitable for clinic use, but come with the value of portability. Probably one of the most important factors you'll want to consider is serviceability when dealing with used units. I notice that PMI backs their units with a fresh calibration from their biomed folks...very nice. It would also be a good idea to inquire whether your current biomedical contractor can provide calibration for one of these units as well. Since I've been playing in EMS for a couple weeks (>25 years) so I've worked with everything fromLP 5's to fully equipped LP12's, Zoll M series and CCT series units with dual invasive pressure/temperature lines and ETCO2. There is even the new (latest and greatest) ProPaq MD out now that incorporates the portability and reliability of the ProPaq and the added features from Zoll's M and CCT series (approximately $35K). I hope this helps. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 The EKG use would mostly be looking for arrhythmia due to certain medications such as high dose Verapamil. I guess I could brush up and read them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 if you are looking for WPW before giving IV verapamil that is fairly easy to dx by looking for upsloping delta waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 if you are looking for WPW before giving IV verapamil that is fairly easy to dx by looking for upsloping delta waves. And the other are AV dysfunctions related to high doses of oral verapamil (> 480 MG day) as in cluster headache treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What they said above... As a former Cardiology PA.... Personally... I'd Just get a AED... and either a non-interp ECG machine (your gonna have to read them yourself anyway as you can't trust the machine reads) or a 12 lead ECG module that you can hook to a laptop by usb or PC card slot and network to your EMR. What you will save in paper cost alone will be substantial. But hey... that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'd Just get a AED... and either a non-interp ECG machine (your gonna have to read them yourself anyway as you can't trust the machine reads) Contrarian makes an excellent point; the software is getting better, but the machine interpretation is still not 100%. The first thing I teach PA students to do when interpreting an EKG is to fold over the top so they can't read the printout. We had an EMS STEMI today that was clearly an acute infarct but the software on the Lifepak 15 didn't make the call (likely a result of the relatively wide QRS duration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardcarter Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The $5,000 is going to tuf..I would try to get a used LP-12...They will do it all and reliable. With the LP-15's being out now you may be able to get a deal on a LP-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2012 I loved the lifepak 10. I started on the 5's but the 10 has a few extra features worth the extra$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richpac Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I loved the lifepak 10. I started on the 5's but the 10 has a few extra features worth the extra$. Haha....like that little green "SYNC" button that activated the synchronized cardioversion, that was definitely a big improvement from the LP5! .....and yeah, you just dated yourself with me :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I loved the lifepak 10. I started on the 5's but the 10 has a few extra features worth the extra$. The LP 10 was a fantastic workhorse; I remember the fun of using "diagnostic mode" and MCL1-6 to acquire a pseudo-12 lead. It was definitely a step up from the Lifepak 5; did you have the fancy freestanding transcutaneous pacer that hooked into it? We used to have to carry it around in a separate bag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 26, 2012 Nope, no pacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 One thing to think about would be the level of 12 lead EKG interpretation that the individual device provides. Most of them focus on identification of STEMI. You may well be looking for more specific findings than their signal processing provides. Contact each manufacturer. That said, I've seen a number of providers of reconditioned LP12's and Zoll M's advertize in EMS magazines. With the LP15's and Zoll E's, you might be able to get a good deal. If you're at all friends with your local EMS providers, they might be able to provide you a lead. My recommendation: the Zoll M's: lighter, easier to see, and easier to operate than the LP 12's. Also, if you don't need pacing and syncronized cardioversion, that may save you some $'. My guess is you wouldn't. I'd think that you'd want to leave that for EMS and the ER's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 One thing to think about would be the level of 12 lead EKG interpretation that the individual device provides. Most of them focus on identification of STEMI. You may well be looking for more specific findings than their signal processing provides. Contact each manufacturer. That said, I've seen a number of providers of reconditioned LP12's and Zoll M's advertize in EMS magazines. With the LP15's and Zoll E's, you might be able to get a good deal. If you're at all friends with your local EMS providers, they might be able to provide you a lead. My recommendation: the Zoll M's: lighter, easier to see, and easier to operate than the LP 12's. Also, if you don't need pacing and syncronized cardioversion, that may save you some $'. My guess is you wouldn't. I'd think that you'd want to leave that for EMS and the ER's. Yeah, you're right. If I were doing syncronized cardioversions, pacing and etc. in my little ole headache clinic . . . then someone would need to put me in a straight jacket and haul me off because I would be so far out-of-line. fortunately the ER is about three blocks away. I'll leave it up to you folks. I mean, thinking of ACLS, I still can't image that would would get to that point before being transported up the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardcarter Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 started on the LP 5's also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammedic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am a soon to be PA student, but am an 11 year paramedic. As people have mentioned an all in one unit for $5000 could be tough to find. I would throw into the consideration, if you decide to up the budget, the Philips MRx. It is an excellent monitor that will meet all of the requirements you listed. I have worked with Lifepak, Zoll, and Philips and would say that the MRx is hands down the best that I have used. The unit I am currently using has EKG/12-lead/Defib-Pacing/SpO2/ETCO2/NIBP, other options available include invasive BP, temp, and Q-CPR (a device that provides feedback based on CPR depth and rate). I have seen "demo" models from Philips that have full warranty for in the $8000 range, but those can be hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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