Eric9 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 While GPA might have been a good indicator of how a person would preform in college at the age 18-23. It's sad that when you are older and more mature, they still look at it as if you are the same irresponsible immature kid from back then. People change... I know it might be hard for admissions to understand, but they do. People especially change during those years 18-24 more than any other time in their lives. Don't you think it's a little harsh giving something so much weight, when later down the line it might be a totally different person with a new more mature perspective on life? Kids today are told that in order to be successful in life they have to go to college. A lot of them are there with no clue even what they want to do with their lives. I feel sorry for those kids. I feel sorry for those kids that will come to fall in love with the medical field later in life. I feel sorry for the kid who went to college for the experience, not knowing that later in life they would become empathetic to those less fortunate and in need of help. I feel sorry for the kid who will want to lend a hand and help their community but can't because of mistakes they made while an adolescent. I feel sorry for the kid in college who doesn't know what he wants to do with his life, but later on when he does, his dream will not be achievable because his passing grades that earned him a degree are now not good enough to make that dream a reality. For GPA to hold so much weight on acceptance, when it is a terrible indicator of everything past the time that it was earned. Is a real travesty and dishonor to the medical community who will be missing out on a lot of bright kids. "Not all who wander are lost" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just hit the magical 3.0 mark. A low undergrad GPA can be overcome to get into PA school, med school, or whatever else. You just have to put in the work and know how to get around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshie1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^^^^^ yes to wutthechris' post. Sorry to burst your "I feel sorry for...." bubble Eric9, but I'm "that kid" ... and I just got into MEDEX Spokane. It can be done with hard work, more than enough years of HCE, persistence, and patience ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Should a person be judged by every act he or she has committed, esp if it was years in the past? Of course not. We all make mistakes and grow. But should you be held responsible for them? Yes. You made the choice to study or party or whatever. It's unfortunate it took you years to grow up and finally decide what to do with your life, but I can't feel sorry you. GPA might not be the best indicator of what a current applicant is capable of, but there has to be some way to measure academic performance. How should an adcom measure your present maturity? And why should they overlook another student who has been focused on a medical path-- and has demonstrated that dedication-- in favor of you? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I took all the "hard" science classes and graduated with dual degrees with a fairly high GPA. I set my priorities, took college seriously, and am now reaping the rewards of that effort. BTW, the term "college kid" drives me batty. Most college students are at least 18 yrs old and therefore fully legal adults, with all the benefits and responsibilities that age entails. It's also more than old enough to accept the consequences of your actions. So you messed up. Figure out what went wrong and why. Retake the classes or take other ones to raise your GPA, if you have to. PS. I don't mean "you" in the sense of you the reader, just in general since that would be a lot of he/she's if I wrote it in 3rd person. PPS. Adolescence is the period between 13-19. What would that have to do with anything if you were already accepted into and graduated from college? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotaox1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I had 18 hours of F on my transcript from my first 3 semesters and managed to get accepted somewhere, and I am waiting to hear back from interviews at several top 10 schools. Hard work and preserverence can make up for past mistakes, but you DO have to make up for them. I am not sure what drove you to make this post, but do you expect adcoms to just take your word that you have matured and are capable of graduate medical studies/being responsible for people's lives? Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I do see where you're coming from and I have been there before. But take a moment to see it from the other side of the table: Many of us have sacrificed a LOT, and I mean a LOT, to get a good GPA. We have given up free time, friends, enjoyment, undergone excessive stress, and "lost" some of the best years of our lives to studying totally useless subjects such as o chem. Would it be fair to not give us an upper hand and consider us no more competitive than students who got to actually enjoy their time in college and didn't have to worry about trying to master the material? No. And you are not powerless - you can go back and retake classes, you can rack up solid HCE and apply to HCE oriented schools, you can work on other things like volunteering and shadowing to buffer your application. But you will have to face the stress that many of us underwent in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2834 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 People change... I know it might be hard for admissions to understand, but they do. Well, get out there and work your butt off to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LESH Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 People change... I know it might be hard for admissions to understand, but they do. People especially change during those years 18-24 more than any other time in their lives. Don't you think it's a little harsh giving something so much weight, when later down the line it might be a totally different person with a new more mature perspective on life? I understand where you are coming from because I deal with it every admission cycle. So please don't assume my comments are directed at you. I have a different perspective. ADCOMs do understand. Most PA educators I know look for maturity and evidence of change. Especially considering the academic rigor of a PA program. Using GPA and past academic performance as screening criteria isn't harsh. Harsh is dismissing someone from a PA program for failure to make satisfactory progression. Harsh is watching someone fail the PANCE. Harsh is someone accepted into a program for all the right reasons IMHO (but considered an academic risk) and not make it. Harsh is the self doubt, depression, loss of income, disruption of family life that can occur.Kids today are told that in order to be successful in life they have to go to college. A lot of them are there with no clue even what they want to do with their lives. I feel sorry for those kids. With all due respect, that describes me and I haven't been a "kid" in 40 years...lol. Got the AARP card to prove it! I feel sorry for the kid in college who doesn't know what he wants to do with his life, but later on when he does, his dream will not be achievable because his passing grades that earned him a degree are now not good enough to make that dream a reality. I would advise that person to retake the program's prereq classes. Get a grade that is not just passing but competitive and gives the ADCOM a sense that the applicant is ready. Get the grades that will help make the dream a reality. Feel sorry for the person that can't do that and I would hope that isn't you. For GPA to hold so much weight on acceptance, when it is a terrible indicator of everything past the time that it was earned. Is a real travesty and dishonor to the medical community who will be missing out on a lot of bright kids. There are PA programs that have a holistic admission process using subjective and non cognitive criteria weighted as heavily as GPA. Search those programs out and apply to them if you can. GPA is considered an indicator of performance in the program; an indicator of likely success. Unfortunately one of the few objective things an ACOM really has to go on IMHO. "Not all who wander are lost" Amen. To the OP, one heck of a first post. You have gotten some excellent advice from folks here. It is on you IMHO. Get the grades the ADCOM wants to see, and whatever else the program values, community service, HCE, shadowing... If it is your dream then make it your reality, Good luck in your future PA endeavors. LesH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hmmm... I see I'm late again for the party. So what's the occasion...?? I took the liberty to bring extra tissues since it does seem to be a "Pity-Party"...:sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungMulaBaby Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 OP I feel the same way at times. I just graduated college with a pretty low GPA for PA school. The first two years I goofed off, was lazy, and basically just was still in that high school mentality. Now that I'm older I feel like I'm a harder worker, more mature, and I study smarter. Only in my senior year did my grades really pick up and I was getting semester GPAs around the 3.7 - 3.8 range. But like others said, we can't feel sorry for ourselves. Sometimes we regret things in the past and just wish we had a time machine to correct these past mistakes. Getting a C in Orgo I at first, then retaking it and getting a full-blown A still averages out to a B, which still kinda sucks (But pretty good for orgo! lol). That's why it's best to do your best the first time around so you won't have to spend extra time, effort, and of course, money, in the future to remediate your grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier1 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I tend to agree with the OP. What's worse is when there is a 15-20 year gap and the adcoms still focus on those 20 year old grades. In my case my first several years were littered with F's and W's for various reasons. After taking a few years off I returned to school and worked on my BSBA while working full time in IT. I graduated with a GPA of 3.5 and built a very successful IT career. Last year I returned to school when I decided to make a career change. I have taken 32 hours of upper level science for my pre-req's and have been able to maintain a 4.0. Last summer I was working an average of 45-50 hours a week at my IT job while taking human anatomy, organic chem, and a stupid communications class. I still managed a 4.0 and almost finished anatomy with a perfect score. None of that has made any difference. I applied to about 8 programs and have received 4 rejections so far. I contacted each school and in every case I was told I was rejected due to GPA. All from grades 20 years ago since they are enough to drop my overall GPA to a 2.6-2.7 even though my last 80+ are above a 3.8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I tend to agree with the OP. What's worse is when there is a 15-20 year gap and the adcoms still focus on those 20 year old grades. In my case my first several years were littered with F's and W's for various reasons. After taking a few years off I returned to school and worked on my BSBA while working full time in IT. I graduated with a GPA of 3.5 and built a very successful IT career. Last year I returned to school when I decided to make a career change. I have taken 32 hours of upper level science for my pre-req's and have been able to maintain a 4.0. Last summer I was working an average of 45-50 hours a week at my IT job while taking human anatomy, organic chem, and a stupid communications class. I still managed a 4.0 and almost finished anatomy with a perfect score. None of that has made any difference. I applied to about 8 programs and have received 4 rejections so far. I contacted each school and in every case I was told I was rejected due to GPA. All from grades 20 years ago since they are enough to drop my overall GPA to a 2.6-2.7 even though my last 80+ are above a 3.8. Where is your healthcare experience? You have not done enough research into the profession and application process if you are hoping to get in with a <3.0 GPA and no healthcare experience. Get at least two years of patient care experience, continue taking upper level science, apply to schools that value HCE over GPA, and you'll have a better shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhoiFish82 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I made 2 C's in college and a mediocre GRE score, but got accepted to a top 10 PA school. It can be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Where is your healthcare experience? You have not done enough research into the profession and application process if you are hoping to get in with a <3.0 GPA and no healthcare experience. Lots of folks have been sold on the idea that it isn't necessary and/or required... So now it seems that the notion is... 'Experience not required' AND Programs should ignore grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 What's worse is when there is a 15-20 year gap and the adcoms still focus on those 20 year old grades. I don't believe adcoms "focus" on the 20y/o grades. They just can't completely ignore them, which is what you want. Understandable, but not super reasonable. CASPA evaluates your initial GPA and it sounds like you're being auto-rejected by schools with a 3.0 requirement. The adcom cannot help that. They cannot look at the entire academic record for every single CASPA app below 3.0. That's insane. Some schools get thousands of applicants every cycle. If you clear the computer's GPA hurdle and your application is seen by a real person, most adcoms will be thrilled to have a mature applicant who knows what he wants (assuming you have some healthcare experience). You need to find schools that don't have a 3.0 requirement, or keep working until you meet the requirements set by the schools you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoTrion Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well my grades weren't great my first year of school either. But I have to agree that they have to look at the totality of the package that is you. Most places will look at patterns in the grades. But to be honest if you are really bad at the foundations of your wanted profession, the chances are you wont be any better when you get to those higher levels. In nuclear medicine we use to interview students that were terrible in chemistry but had the heart to get through just about anything. The lasted through one semester of radiochemistry and just couldn't get traction. They were great clinically, but could never grasp the science of what was going on and why their RBC tagged sucked. The problem is that you can't one on one with a student constantly for them to understand the material. The truth is that C's do get degrees, but these schools want people that will make exceptional PA's and not just barely skate by. I know the school I interviewed at recently looks heavily at HCE, but if you are below 3.2 your application isn't looked at. If you are on the line of the GPA, but your grades increase with maturity, they did take that into account. They want to see that drive along with that brain to make that investment in time and energy. Is this always the right combo? Not always..... But not much in life is a sure thing. Which is the bigger gamble for the ADCOM? If it is something you really want, get back in the classroom and take another swing at those classes and show them the heart you have for what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Also for people with bad grades from the past, there are schools out there that pay special attention to your last 30 or last 60 credit hours GPA. There are options out there but you need to do your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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