igaboj Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi everyone, I was offered a position as an EKG tech at a company that remotely monitors EKG rhythms of patients suffering from OSA. The problem is, like everyone one of you, I want to get into a PA school and I'm not sure if this job counts as "direct" patient care. Can anyone tell me whether it is or isn't considered direct pt care? Unfortunately, the job market is quite hard so either way, I might have to take this job. Was just wondering whether or not this could count. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 3, 2012 probably not. at a min I think you need to be in the same room with a pt for it to count.....I would rank that lower than pharm tech or lab tech which are concidered low level experience already. you want something where you are interacting with and touching pts, ideally also making decisions about their care(emt, lpn, rn, resp. therapy, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There are plenty of schools that don't require hands-on experience and value the other realms of healthcare as well. If this is what you can get for now, take it and keep your eye out for something that can get you working with patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igaboj Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks for the advice guys. I can't find much else I can do at this point, so I'll be doing this until I can find an EMT-B job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 There are plenty of schools that don't require hands-on experience and value the other realms of healthcare as well. . that is a whole other discussion regarding the quality of programs and their applicants.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 that is a whole other discussion regarding the quality of programs and their applicants.... It's unfair to assume that the quality of a program or the quality of an applicant is less because direct patient care is not required. You must think 60%+ of the PA programs around the country are of low quality. Other areas of healthcare can still provide good foundations for PA students. You wouldn't see these folks getting accepted and becoming PAs if that wasn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 You must think 60%+ of the PA programs around the country are of low quality. . more like 30% but yes, I truly believe based on >25 yrs involved with the profession and having worked directly with some of the founders of the pa profession that solid health care experience is the foundation for a quality pa student. any program that doesn't value prior hce isn't worth attending. there, I said it. any student who gets into pa school without experience would be a better pa with a few yrs experience beforehand. how can anyone argue that? knowledge is bad? you just absorb more and make conncetions faster. you can skim through basic material and go to advanced topics more quickly. you do better on rotations because of this. I precept students and can always tell the difference between prior hce students and no hce students without even asking. sure, a few do ok without experience but imagine how much better they would be with the benefit of experience..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 You wouldn't see these folks getting accepted and becoming PAs if that wasn't the case. universities and pa programs are not noble. they are money making ventures. lower the standards and more people are eligible to apply. if pa program standards were the same as even 15 yrs ago we would have maybe 75 programs and the overall quality both of the programs and the graduates would be higher. the transition to an almost universal ms standard for pa programs wasn't about quality, it was about grad student tuition vs undergrad tuition. show me one program that didn't increase their rates when they made the transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 more like 30% but yes, I truly believe based on >25 yrs involved with the profession and having worked directly with some of the founders of the pa profession that solid health care experience is the foundation for a quality pa program. any program that doesn't value prior hce isn't worth attending. there, I said it. any student who gets into pa school without experience would be a better pa with a few yrs experience beforehand. you just absorb more and make conncetions faster. you can skim through basic material and go to advanced topics more quickly. you do better on rotations because of this. I precept students and can always tell the difference between prior hce students and no hce students without even asking. You are addressing something other than was being discussed in this thread. Having no HCE at all wasn't what was being referred to; it was HCE other than direct patient care. /edit - Many schools see the value in some types of hands-off HCE. My point wasn't that HCE isn't needed period(which it isn't in many cases though I personally feel it is helpful), but that hands-on experience isn't an absolute requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 You are addressing something other than was being discussed in this thread. Having no HCE at all wasn't what was being referred to; it was HCE other than direct patient care. same thing. remotely viewing ekg tracings is not pt care, sorry. like i said above being in the room with a pt is at a min a reasonable requirement for pt care. that is why research and lab work are almost universally frowned upon as well. when I screen pa applicants for a local program I would toss that app in the same pile with the zero experience applicants. that's not much different than working in a warehouse moving boxes full of medical textbooks. "hey, they are MEDICAL BOOKS....." yeah, right....or doing hair at a funeral home(have seen it used as "hce" before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 same thing. remotely viewing ekg tracings is not pt care, sorry. like i said above being in the room with a pt is at a min a reasonable requirement for pt care. Huh? I never claimed that remotely viewing EKGs is direct patient care. that is why research and lab work are almost universally frowned upon as well. C'mon now...lab work = doing hair in a funeral home? That is certainly not the case and I/others can say that from experience. Even your own top program list that you've posted has schools that value those with clinical lab experience. I was told at an interview that I'll have more than a year to get experience interacting with patients but my more thorough understanding of lab values/methods/QC will be invaluable during school and as a practicing PA. I can appreciate that you're of the old school and don't like the change in applicant demographic treading on that but I have to state again that it is unfair to consider schools or their applicants as of a lower quality just because direct patient care HCE is not required. The 20 year EMT that goes into PA school will certainly have great advantages but that doesn't mean that the 2 year EKG tech doesn't bring anything to the table or can't become a great PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 that was the experience the OP was talking about(remotely viewing ekg's). you told them to take it. their question was "is this direct pt care". your answer implies yes, mine implies no. there are many here that consider research and lab work to be pt care activities. I don't agree with them. I think you have to interact with a pt, not just their blood or urine or their stats for it to count as pt care. I know my ideas are "old school". we have to agree to disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 that was the experience the OP was talking about(remotely viewing ekg's). you told them to take it. their question was "is this direct pt care". your answer implies yes, mine implies no.there are many here that consider research and lab work to be pt care activities. I don't agree with them. I think you have to interact with a pt, not just their blood or urine or their stats for it to count as pt care. I know my ideas are "old school". we have to agree to disagree on this. I think there is a disconnect in our communication. You seem to be under the impression that I am referring to all HCE as being patient care experience, which is not the case. There is a distinction in the application process between patient care HCE(i.e. RT, EMT, etc.) and other HCE(i.e. med tech, remote ekg tech, etc.). I certainly don't believe clinical lab work to be direct patient care experience, with the exception being those techs at smaller/rural places that don't have separate phlebotomists. I was just pointing out that direct patient care experience is not required to get into PA school--that other forms of HCE are considered valuable by many programs. My reply to the OP was actually explaining that any HCE is better than no HCE(he mentioned the job market is tough and he may just have to take it) so he should take the job in the mean time while continuing to keep an eye out for patient care jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 fair enough. sorry for any misunderstanding on my part. I admit I do get too passionate about issues regarding the changing face of the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyus Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I was told that any time you touched the patient* would count as direct patient care. I spent time in a clinic taking vitals and updating charts; my adviser considered my time in the room with patients as direct patient care. Additionally, I volunteered for the first-responder team on campus. This experience gave me the most "direct" care that I could get at my education level (No emt-certification). *Assuming you're touching them for some medical purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Typically a good guideline is if the job doesn't require you to actually have to touch the patient it doesn't count as Direct Pt care. There are some exceptions like Pharm Tech. The best way to if the position you have been offered is to contact the programs you plan on applying to and ask. Afterall they are the ones deciding who gets admitted. Not us. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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