"Right" for the Army?

[GregoryHousePA]

Read a lot about who's "right" for the army. As someone with no exposure of military culture I'm willing to throw the army into my post-graduation considerations. It appeals to me because I want to treat people that need and respect my help, responsibility and don't want to play insurance and litigation games. I think I'm also looking for different and eye opening life experiences. I however am not someone who is willing to take on unnecessary risk. I read that some army PA volunteer to go on patrol or what not. That's not for me. Living in rough conditions is one thing, getting shot at is another. I accept that the Army is not safe, but I think you know what I mean.

 

It should also be said I am by no means someone who fits the military stereotype. I was never an athlete, but I'm not out of shape. I'm more of a nerd than a jock. I listen to GaGa over metal. I can also be a little head strong and don't always respect people simply due to seniority or title. But I also have a deeply seeded catholic school ethic of just suck it up even if you don't agree with it and get through it.

 

Am I "right" for the army?

[Lark41014]

There is always a VA hospital or a clinic on post. You still get to help the military (and their families) and there is no insurance to deal with. But you wouldn't be active duty or expected to deploy at all. Additionally they have a program that will pay back school loans in return for years of service.

[USN2UNC]

Honestly, if you do not want to get shot at, absolutely do not join the Army. You need to accept the possibility that you would and should lay your life down for your country if need be. As for the stereotypes....don't worry there are 'nerds' in the military too. If you were going through basic I wouldn't worry about your seniority thought process, since they would have enough time to break you down and build you back up but, I dont know if there is enough time (4 weeks?) in the medical officer version to truly instill those values in oneself. There are other branches btw that you may be more comfortable with as well- however, that doesn't mean you wont get shot at then too. AF and USN have PA boots in the sand these days too. Best of luck in your decision,

 

Chuck

[3GeronimoPA]

I however am not someone who is willing to take on unnecessary risk. I read that some army PA volunteer to go on patrol or what not. That's not for me. Living in rough conditions is one thing, getting shot at is another.

 

I can also be a little head strong and don't always respect people simply due to seniority or title.

 

Am I "right" for the army?

 

Sorry... No.

 

You don't necessarily have to respect someone because of their rank/title however there are formalities, customs, and courtesies that are a part of the fabric of what we do. USN2UNC hit it on the head, there are PA's from all branches that are getting involved in the war at the level of supervising medics and at times need to go outside of the wire. It's not about unnecessary risks, it's about "inherent risks" and unfortunately patrolling and getting shot at are a part of that "inherent risk".

 

This doesn't make you a bad person or not a patriot. I don't think the military is for everyone and if you are going to have heartburn over what I have quoted, you fall into that category. You can go to USAJOBS and find positions for PAs as DOD civilians. They provide service to our warriors from stateside and do not have to engage in the types of inherent military risks. HOWEVER, in medicine, in business, in the adult world of employment, you will have to be respectful to people who are your supervisors, bosses, and supervising physicians even if you don't like them. It's not butt kissing, it's life. I'm sure I'm looking at the extreme end of where I can take your remarks, but respect is central to any successful work environment, especially medical, especially military.

 

If you have a heart to care for Soldiers and you don't want to take risk, please do look at USAJOBS or cpol.army.mil. We need people with patriotic attitudes that wont get discouraged when they see some of the sad aspects of our system.

 

Good luck,

[GregoryHousePA]

Thanks Nate

 

I don't think my attitude is quite what you think it is. But it's good to hear views from that extreme. The bottom line is I always do what I'm told and opinions just stay in my head. If anything I think I work better with people I disagree with than most can.

[3GeronimoPA]

I figured as much. Thus I stated it was an extreme end. I hope you take my perspective well. I want to be realistic and not disrespectful to you.

[GregoryHousePA]

Never mind. I would fit right in and could possibly teach them a thing or two.

 

 

[USN2UNC]

Oh. Dear. Jesus.

[marilynpac]

VA hospital/clinic sounds perfect for you.

[EMEDPA]

there are also overseas positions for civilian pa's on military bases in germany, etc to consider.

[3GeronimoPA]

Good point. Germany, Brussels, I think the Navy guys even have a few gigs in Australia. The cool thing is if you jump on one of these gigs and do well there but get tired of living overseas, you can apply for a GS job back in the states and retain seniority and all the blah blah blah of your last job.

[EMEDPA]

you can also do it as a locums job so you can switch assignments every few months or just quit if you don't like it with no strings attached...

[just_me]

US Public Health Commissioned Corps is an option----it is a uniformed service however the way it was described to me is that they do not deploy and respond only to stateside emergency situations

[Duluth]

I had never heard of cpol so I decided to check out their health care jobs. They have an opening for a physicians assistant. Facepalm.

[Guest Music&Medicine]

I am active duty AF and will be going into the PA program next year. The AF usually doesnt deploy as long or as much as the Army. It sucks being away from the family but other than that i enjoy actually doing what i joined the military to do. I think that is where i can help people the most. Can't wait to get into PA school. There are definitely a lot of federal oppertunities for PA's. For the military the pay is good and the benefits are great. If i hadnt got accepted into the PA program through the AF i was going to apply through the Army. I just love the military. then when you retire you could go work the civilian side. I am currently on a Combat Outpost in Afghanistan and our Army PA here goes out once in a while on missions. We also have an enlisted medic. I think they alternate. We go out on a lot of missions here though. I have it easy compared to the Army guys here. I do a little over six months, they are out here for a year. Thats my point of view.

[narcan]

The military should really only be on your radar if you're truly interested in serving your country and can accept the possibility, however remote, that you'll be called into a situation where you'll have to die for your men and for your country. If not going into combat is an absolute for you, then don't do it. As said previously, there are plenty of good opportunities on the civilian side that will give you many of the same benefits you seem to be seeking.

 

"Duty, honor, country: Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying point to build courage when courage seems to fail, to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, to create hope when hope becomes forlorn." - General MacArthur (1962)

[istat2]

Never mind. I would fit right in and could possibly teach them a thing or two.

 

 

 

Those boys have been in the field TOO LONG lol

[3GeronimoPA]

The military should really only be on your radar if you're truly interested in serving your country and can accept the possibility, however remote, that you'll be called into a situation where you'll have to die for your men and for your country. If not going into combat is an absolute for you, then don't do it. As said previously, there are plenty of good opportunities on the civilian side that will give you many of the same benefits you seem to be seeking.

 

"Duty, honor, country: Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying point to build courage when courage seems to fail, to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, to create hope when hope becomes forlorn." - General MacArthur (1962)

 

 

With this attitude you can NEVER go wrong. If you go in expecting not to have to do what is said above and you are called on to get the job done whatever it may be, you will be doing our warfighters wrong. They deserve only someone willing to go to war when needed, shoot when needed, convoy when needed, and to do everything else they do when needed.

[Guest Music&Medicine]

Ultimately, the PA was created for the military and war. There was a shortage of Doc's so they needed to get soldiers through medical training quick to get them in the field where they were needed.

[Contrarian]

Ultimately, the PA was created for the military and war. There was a shortage of Doc's so they needed to get soldiers through medical training quick to get them in the field where they were needed.

 

NOPE... incorrect.... fallacious... plain old made up BS....

 

YOU are a "NO-GO" at this station...!!!!

 

YOU are also NOT a PA student (school hasn't started for you yet. you have NOT cracked one text, or taken one test. YOU ARE NOT CURRENTLY enrolled at IPAP or any other PA program)... YOU are a PRE-PA... so you are starting off your time here with dishonesty and lies.

 

CEASE and DESIST...!!!!

 

Straighten out your profile then:

 

READ MORE... post less...

[Guest Music&Medicine]

CEASE and DESIST, really. Wow, Contrarian...

You are correct, i havent started PA school yet but i will be attending IPAP in 2011. Why would i lie about this? I am not a kid. I came on this forum to get and give information. Nothing i have said is a lie and i have no motive to do so. The PA has its roots in the military. look it up. im not an idiot. I hope you don't treat your patients like you treat members on this forum. http://www.pahx.org/timeline.html

 

1650

 

Feldshers, originally German military medical assistants, are introduced into Russian armies by Peter the Great in the 17th Century.

USS Constellation

John W. Schmidt

Navy Art Collection 1778

 

An enlisted man, John Wall, is assigned by the US Navy as a “loblolly boy” to assist medical officers on the USS Constellation. One year later, Congress passes a bill authorizing the Navy to use hospital mates modeled after the "loblolly boys" of the British Royal Navy to assist physicians in care of sailors. 1803

 

Officiers de Sante are introduced in France by Rene Fourcroy to help alleviate health personnel shortages in the military and civilian sectors (abolished in 1892).

Hospital Corps.

Camp Boynton

Beaver Park 1891

 

Establishment of the first company for "medic" instruction at Fort Riley, Kansas. Medical Directive Frontier Nursing Service1925

 

Mary Breckinridge established the Frontier Nursing Service in mountains of Kentucky and builds Wendover, marking the first effort to professionalize midwifery in the United States. 1940

 

Community Health Aids introduced in Alaska to improve the village health status of Eskimos and other native Americans.

Johnson and

Treadwell with

Patient 1940

 

Dr. Amos N. Johnson employs Henry "Buddy" Treadwell as office assistant and over time trains him as prototype PA to work in his rural-based general practice in Garland, NC exposing Dr. Eugene Stead, Jr. and general medicine residents at Duke University to the assistant model. 1942

 

Dr. Eugene Stead, Jr. is forced to develop a fast track, 3-year applied medical curriculum to educate physicians at Emory University for military service during World War II and has to use medical students and residents to primarily run Emory University and Grady Hospitals in Atlanta, GA.

Stead at Emory 1957

 

Thelma Ingles, RN, begins clinical sabbatical with Dr. Stead at Duke University which leads to the establishment of a master's degree program for nurse clinicians at the School of Nursing. Although successful, the program is denied accreditation by the National League for Nursing (NLN).

Thelma Ingles

at Duke 1959

 

US Surgeon General identifies shortage of medically trained personnel.

1961

 

 

Dr. Charles Hudson, in the Journal of the American Medical Association, calls for a "mid-level" provider from the ranks of former military corpsmen. World Health Organization (WHO) begins introducing and promoting health care workers in developing countries (e.g., Me'decin Africain, Dresser, Assistant Medical Officer, and Rural Health Technician).

 

Dr. Charles Hudson 1962

 

Dr. Henry McIntosh, cardiologist at Duke University, trains local fireman in emergency procedures for the community; in exchange, off-duty firemen staff the cardiac catheterization laboratory; former Navy hospital corpsmen are hired for similar roles and are classified as physician's assistants by Duke's payroll department.

Dr. Henry MacIntosh 1964

 

 

Dr. Eugene Stead, Jr., disillusioned by organized nursing's rejection of the nurse clinician program, decides that ex-military corpsmen with their previous training and experience would be suitable candidates for his two-year experimental program that he describes in a letter to one of his Duke colleagues, Dr. Charles H. Frenzel. Dr. Richard A. Smith is assigned to Pacific Northwest by Surgeon General William Stewart to develop physician assistant training program. He develops the MEDEX (Med-icine Ex-tension) model with a strong emphasis on the deployment of students and graduates into medically underserved communities.

MEDEX Pamphlet

 

Duke PA Students

with Kathleen

Andreoli, RN

 

Dr. Henry Silver

 

Barefoot Doctors 1965

 

 

Academic Committee chaired by Dr. Andrew Wallace approves Dr. Stead's proposed PA curriculum and the National Heart Institute funds Dr. Herbert Saltsman's grant to train hyperbaric chamber operators and physician's assistant. This clears the way for the first four physician assistant (PA) students, all ex-Navy hospital corpsmen, to begin training at the Duke University Medical Center in Durham, NC.

Reader's Digest article about jobs in health care industry mentions the development of the PA program at Duke University causing a flood of inquires from ex-military corpsmen.

Dr. Henry Silver and nurse educator Loretta Ford establish pediatric nurse practitioner program at the University of Colorado - a forerunner of the Child Health Associate Program established in 1968 focused on primary medical care for children. Barefoot Doctors introduced into China after Cultural Revolution to provide basic medical services to rural populations

[Contrarian]

Nice try.... but you still seem NOT to understand your audience here in the MILITARY area of this PA forum. The info you copied and pasted above is all OLD NEWS to those of us that have been doing this for a while and is simply wasting bandwidth. So trying to twist it to fit your initial erroneous post isn't gonna fly.

 

First... Feldshers ARE NOT PAs... Military medics ARE NOT PAs... “loblolly boys” ARE NOT PAs... Frontier Nurses were NOT PAs. Our roots stem from Johnson and Treadwell who were not military. Dr. Stead trained PHYSICIANS in the 3 yr fast track PHYSICIAN program for the war... then as a civilian, he chose former medics AS A SECOND CHOICE for PAs.

 

So your assertion that "the PA was created for the military and war. There was a shortage of Doc's so they needed to get soldiers through medical training quick to get them in the field where they were needed" is fallacious and simply made up...

 

PAs were initially conceptualized and trained to practice in non-military rural/urban physician shortage areas...

 

Second... This is the military area on this PA forum. Our beloved brother pac4hire, may he rest in peace... requested that this area be set up and opened as a rally point for those who served their nation and is now "in or have completed the pipeline" to PAdom. He was the first moderator here and if you read his first sticky it is clear that he had nothing but "hate and discontent" for posers. He has since passed on, but we intend on keeping to the veracity he expected/demanded here in THIS military sub-forum. As a NCO... YOU should already under/overstand the importance of this.

 

The LIE I am referring to is in your title under your name. It says "Physician Assistant Student." I'm sure YOU are aware that this implies that YOU are either in the didactic or clinical portion of a PA program. You are in neither. Their is a option for "Pre-PA" for a reason that most of the "kids" you claim not to be... understand. Why didn't you select "Pre-PA" if not to purposefully deceive..????

 

If this was a Airforce forum, would it be OK for me to list myself as a F-22 pilot the day after I left MEPS...??? Would it be acceptable for me to list myself as a PJ (Pararescue) or CCT (Combat Control team) before even entering the pipeline...??? Should we all just start claiming to be SEALS and SOF...??? Should we all just start claiming completion of any school in the military that we feel we would do well in....??? Honesty and clarity is important here. If you are a NCO... I'm sure YOU overstand what I'm talking about.

 

Third... How I treat my patients, is irrelevant to how I respond to less than honest posters on a anonymous INTERNET forum... and really shouldn't concern you until YOU actually do start and complete a PA program and pass the PANCE...

 

Finally.... Resist the urge to try to post some snappy, bravado riddled reply as a comeback... it will only serve to distract from the message and further illuminate where you are in error. Clean up your profile and please refrain from posting erroneous info. If you don't know something ask.

 

Welcome to the PA Forum.

 

Have a very "pre-PA" day...

 

Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Thank YOU...!!!!

[Guest Music&Medicine]

Point taken, I am having a very great "Pre-PA" day. You don't think the origins of the PA cam from the military? The names were different but still the origin. Yes it's old news, but that makes it history. The PA was created for the military, under a different name. I would not call myself Pre-PA due to the fact that i am not taking anymore classes to get into PA school. I have been accepted and i will be attending. I am not a posser. Your analogy to a fighter pilot is rediculous. I am not saying i am a PA. Just a student. Why would you attack me for saying i am a student? All that i have said is true. As a NCO in the USAF I do not and will not ever pose as something i am not. Frankly, your smug tone offends me. You should work on your people skills. Thanks for the welcome into the forum. I hope your rudeness doesnt discourage people from posting on this forum. Just because you have thousands of posts doesn't mean you can treat people how ever you want. This whole thing is taking away from the thread. I do wish you the best. I am just excited to finally go to PA school and wanted to learn as much as possible before.

 

Have wonderful "PA" day

 

M&M

[Contrarian]

Point taken, I am having a very great "Pre-PA" day. [YOU should have stopped here... but I see you don't take instruction well and couldn't resist.... so lets continue to examine your lapse of integrity] You don't think the origins of the PA cam from the military? The names were different but still the origin. Yes it's old news, but that makes it history. The PA was created for the military, under a different name. [Again... NO. YOU really don't know what you are talking/writing about... but instead insist on trying to twist the facts to fit your assertion because your EGO is in the way. Your inability to accept what you don't know is worrisome when you consider that in a few yrs, you will have to do so to avoid killing someone in a clinic, battalion aid station, or field hospital ] I would not call myself Pre-PA due to the fact that i am not taking anymore classes to get into PA school. I have been accepted and i will be attending. I am not a posser. [Yes you are a "Poser"...!! You know very well that you ARE NOT a "PA Student." You know that you will not set foot in a PA classroom until until AUGUST 2011. You purposely chose to ignore the Pre-PA tag and lied.] Your analogy to a fighter pilot is rediculous. [First its spelled R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. Second, the analogy fits perfectly. You claim to have been accepted to PA school... you don't start at IPAP until AUGUST 2011, but are already claiming to be a student. Just as the young Joe has just left MEPs with a flight school contract and immediately log onto a AF pilot forum and start claiming to be a pilot or in flight school. Neither is accurate and both are basically lies. Yep... fits perfectly] I am not saying i am a PA. Just a student. [That is clear... and STILL a lie. By the grace of god.... You will be attending IPAP in AUGUST 2011. When you check in at Ft. Sam in AUGUST 2011, you will then be a "PA Student." Until that time... you are NOT a PA student. Just as the Pilot is NOT in flight training until they check into the flight training squadron. When you DO get to IPAP in AUGUST 2011... are you gonna then immediately start telling people that you are a PA instead of a PA student...???? What about when you finish IPAP, are you gonna start telling people that you are a PA-C without having even taken the PANCE...??? I bet you are already telling people that you are attending UNMC and are already working on your MPAS aren't you...???] Why would you attack me for saying i am a student? [because it is a LIE and we kinda expect much more integrity from a NCO in the US armed services. Anywhere else on this forum I would have simply let it pass, but just couldn't do that in the MILITARY sub-forum where the notions of "honor" and "integrity" should mean something] All that i have said is true. [NO... it isn't..!!] As a NCO in the USAF I do not and will not ever pose as something i am not. [Coool.... so stop doing it here] Frankly, your smug tone offends me. You should work on your people skills. [Frankly, I really don't care about you as a "wannabe" being offended and what really is offensive is your abject lack of integrity and veracity as evidenced by your continued lies and lame justifications about your status. Especially when we consider that as a NCO you are in non-permissive environments leading impressionable young airmen into harms way. You can continue to play like you don't know what I'm speaking of, but there are current and former service members on this sub-forum who know and respect where I'm coming from. Also, my people skills and INTEGRITY have served me very well during my 8 yrs of service and over the last 23 yrs in health care.] Thanks for the welcome into the forum. I hope your rudeness doesnt discourage people from posting on this forum. [i hope it DOES discourage people from posting erroneous BS on this forum] Just because you have thousands of posts doesn't mean you can treat people how ever you want. [Correct... which is why I don't...] This whole thing is taking away from the thread. I do wish you the best. I am just excited to finally go to PA school and wanted to learn as much as possible before.

 

Have wonderful "PA" day

 

M&M

 

Color coded simple definitions for the purposely obtuse:

 

Wannabe= someone who simply thinks that they want to be a PA and is still exploring the career field as a potential option.

Pre-PA = someone who is working toward getting into a PA program or someone who has applied, interviewed and been accepted but hasn't actually matriculated yet.

Poser= someone who claims to be something that they are not.

PA student= someone who is actively attending a PA program. This person is either in the didactic or clinical phase of a PA program

PA= someone who has completed a PA program

PA-C= someone who has completed a PA program and is currently certified by NCCPA

 

Now... WHICH ONE ARE YOU...???? [Hint; its Blue]

 

Contrarian

 

P.s... In case you didn't get it... you WILL NOT be a "PA student" until AUGUST 2011 which is 15 months (1 yr and 3 months) away.