CAQ Results

[janede]

me too...like to know how I racked up...competitive I guess but curious too. I've said that for the reg recert, an ER PA would have to be drunk to fail but this puppy was not quite that easy.

[pablo]

I am one of the 8 who passed in Maryland.

Very curious as to # registered to test, # Tested and # passed.

Entering 17th year as PA with army SF medic and Fire Dept PM background.

Some object to another certification or test. Seems like the wave of the future to me. More Doc shortages mean more PA opportunities. But with less Docs, I anticipate higher expectations of the providers. I suspect this will have several areas of use. First, the PA looking for a position will be better looking on paper. Given the experience requirement etc, I would hope they would be better prepared in person too. Second, the PA with the certification already in position may be able to negotiate the contract north a bit. Third, the employer may look good noting the number of residency trained or CAQ providers.

When I started, most of the ED Docs were internal medicine folks. Now they are EM residency, ACEP, etc. I suspect this is our version of the same. I also wonder what the plan will be for NPs who practice in ED settings. In Maryland, if they are adult critical care they do not touch kids. If family medicine, they don't touch critical patients (at least as far as I have seen). If this takes hold, I wonder if an NP emergency medicine track will develop.

Congrats to all who took the exam, and a double dose to those who passed. Great job folks.

pablo

[Devildog]

there is actually a practice requirement to take the exam. new grads are not eligible. you also need acls/atls/pals and an em doc to sign off that you are competent both in general and on a full page of procedures. it's not a great exam but most non-em folks would fail it. I'm sure a lot of good em pa's actually failed it. I think they set the bar too high. with 25 yrs of em experience I had doubts about whether or not I passed it. 10 yrs ago I might have failed it so many em pa's with only 5 yrs experience probably did. it does serve its purpose though. an fp, psych, nephro, ortho, etc pa would certainly fail this exam. a critical care pa like andersen would likely pass it as it seemed to focus more on the critical care aspects of em than anything else.

I can understand your feelings about the test. I'm in a position right now in which I was encouraged to take it and it was subsidized(pm me if you want details).

I would much prefer more residencies as I think those really do make a better pa, em or otherwise. maybe make the test only available to residency grads. I think that is probably where we are headed anyway. 20 yrs from now every pa will likely be required to do a residency for anything outside of primary care. I can't say that it's a bad idea.

 

Indeed, I agree with E.. our practice has grown leaps and bounds and that has placed a tremendous amount of stress as "the well has run dry" of qualified EM PA's. We will be starting a residency as a way to train up urgent care / FP pa's into our EM practice. I have been corresponding with John Grayoski and he preety much confirmed that our challenges are not isolated to our practice.. See his response below to one of my latest to him..BTW, congrats to all that passed!

 

"We have been inundated with information about training programs, residencies and fellowships in emergency medicine. They are expanding rapidly.

At the same time, we are hearing from our physician colleagues that their need to hire PAs is being thwarted by the variable level of skills and training in candidates.

We are also hearing from a (minority) of EM Physicians that there has to be a "standard" of training and some recognition of skill level in order to continue to have PAs as an essential part of the ED provider team.

I think we all agree that the PA schools are churning out graduates, but the number of new PAs who have EM training or experience is dropping. Many of our new grads went into PA school straight out of high school, so there a new and future PA population that lacks much prior life experience.

We are in discussion with ACEP about creating a clearing house for the variety of programs that are being established, and about facilitating a dialog about the characteristics of training programs that would meet the needs of EM. I think there is also a real desire for groups who are training to share their processes and experiences.

Ultimately our membership would also benefit from knowing what training is out there.

In any event, we are hoping to have a roundtable in Tucson. We have had a number of "residencies" request space in the exhibit hall as a way of getting the word out about their programs.

I'd like to hear more about your program.

Would hope you can be in Tucson as the discussion there will be helpful in determining our role in the evolution of EM training. You might also consider a space in the exhibit hall.

Want to stay in touch as we are going to need volunteer leaders to help evolve the next steps in the evolution of EM training for PAs.

I'm sharing this with Natalie Schmitz, our president elect and Michelle Parker, our Executive Director.

 

John Graykoski, PA-C, MPAS

President, Society of Emergency Medicine Physician Assistants"

[Devildog]

nice press release!!

[EMEDPA]

I am one of the 8 who passed in Maryland.

I'm one of only 17 on the west coast who passed the exam and the only one at any of my jobs.

[andersenpa]

are the pass rates and number who took the exams avaiable to the public or only those who took the exam?

[Joelseff]

We discussed the CAQ in my PA practice issues class for my masters and the consensus was we were against it but its probably the future. Also most of us were "ok" with it since there is a requirement for time in practice. However, I think it will, in time, Put an end to our "lateral mobility."

 

I am actually pursuing an AAHIVS (HIV Specialty designation) which requires a certain number of HIV patients treated/followed in a 24 month period, 30 units of CME I and an exam, so I can't really criticize the CAQ negatively without seeming somewhat hypocritical.

 

For those of you who passed: C O N G R A T S!!!!

[janede]

RE how many took: They only sent us a list of how many passed in what speciality by state (I was one of two ed PAs in Michigan that passed)... They also sent a list of topics of the questions you got wrong: Like "trauma" so no clue there...as that could be 1 question or 5. I took the exam in Lansing, there was one other PA taking the ER at that site ...so I have no idea what the pass rate was. NCCPA told us not to publish the pass numbers (no percent) as they are doing that this week in a press release.

[pablo]

NCCPA advised 149 took the test. (I only asked about the EM test) Asked if this was thought to be due to lack of prerequisites, and if larger # anticipated in subsequent years. Waiting for that response. Will keep you all posted. 149 tested, 142 passed. Is that because the requirements set the test for success? big curve? I guess that remains to be seen. I would have hoped for a larger turnout. the group I work for is really encouraging us to test. However, lots of folks only had some of the prereq. Many had the years, but not the airway course etc. Three providers out of about 40 took the test. I think most of us will take it in the next two years. We are also developing an inhouse program so that the NP folks can also test (internally) if they meet requirements. Success will result in some northward movement of the salary or bonus lines for us.A few providers in nearby EDs advised they would take another test when..... you get the picture. so I wonder what you all are hearing. Are the folks you work with planning to take it soon, or when hell freezes? Are they waiting to see what develops, to compete requirements to test? thankspable

[EMEDPA]

Several folks i work with plan to take it next yr. A new residency in the area plans to require it to graduate.

[orthotech]

E-

What new residency is this? It's it in the NW?

 

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[EMEDPA]

yup, em in the nw.

announcement to follow in next few months.

[badbob]

I am curious, who thinks NCCPA CAQ test equals formal fellowship training.

[Devildog]

not in a million years..

[andersenpa]

I am curious, who thinks NCCPA CAQ test equals formal fellowship training.

 

CAQ covers material learned in fellowship/residency.

Doesn't replace it any more than PANCE replaces PA school.

[EMEDPA]

CAQ covers material learned in fellowship/residency.

Doesn't replace it any more than PANCE replaces PA school.

agree. I know of a few folks who met the min requirements to test and pass. basically folks 18 mo out of school working in em since graduation. not a residency or fellowship by any means.

[CAAdmission]

Always good to jump through a hoop and pay several hundred bucks to hamstring ourselves by losing what others here refer to as "lateral mobility." Well done, NCCPA.

 

Soon we will all be doing residencies adding another year to our education. If there are any young people reading this, heed my words: you would have to be nuts to go to PA school with the changes that are coming. Don't get me wrong - I love what I do, and I love what this profession once was when I started in it. But the CAQs represent a fundamental, irreversible shift of the very foundations of the PA profession.

 

Do yourself a favor and find another career - go to medical school. I would never advise anyone to become a PA anymore unless they had no other option.

[LIPPER]

Do yourself a favor and find another career - go to medical school. I would never advise anyone to become a PA anymore unless they had no other option.

Disagree. Unless you're trying to thin out the competition.

 

Competency based testing, even if flawed is taking over all....not just our profession. embrace it.

[CAAdmission]

That's some reasoning process. "Embrace it" even though you acknowledge it is flawed and it limits your mobility in you profession? I'm also not sure who my competition is that I need to thin out. I'm pretty sure I have one of the best looking resumes on this forum, and those years were accumulated across a couple of different specialties - a luxury my successors will no longer enjoy. The first people that will get the big screw from this stupidity are those most vulnerable: new grads.

 

This who CAQ scheme was cooked up to generate capital for an already bloated NCCPA. You really think a bunch of stuffed shirt pinheads at NCCPA know better than Eugene Stead Jr?

[LIPPER]

 

This who CAQ scheme was cooked up to generate capital for an already bloated NCCPA. You really think a bunch of stuffed shirt pinheads at NCCPA know better than Eugene Stead Jr?

I'm sure that's how people thought as our nation evolved as well... We have amendments to our constitution that don't result in negative thoughts of our founding fathers; we have the right o bear arms.... Did the constitution mention taking a class to carry a concealed firearm?

 

He PA concept is alive an well. A new testing apparatus shouldn't concern any competent PA's, and based on salary reports in Money magazine. AAPA etc, no one should suffer financially either.

[andersenpa]

Always good to jump through a hoop and pay several hundred bucks to hamstring ourselves by losing what others here refer to as "lateral mobility." Well done, NCCPA.

 

Soon we will all be doing residencies adding another year to our education. If there are any young people reading this, heed my words: you would have to be nuts to go to PA school with the changes that are coming. Don't get me wrong - I love what I do, and I love what this profession once was when I started in it. But the CAQs represent a fundamental, irreversible shift of the very foundations of the PA profession.

 

Do yourself a favor and find another career - go to medical school. I would never advise anyone to become a PA anymore unless they had no other option.

 

The process is elective; if you want to say it's inevitably going to be mandatory, that's fine, but it's just no the case right now.

The forces that determine these things for PAs often have the ability to maximally employ PAs in mind. It will be interesting to see if changes come about which are proven to hinder the growth of PAs (currently we are still exploding- 100% growth in 10 yrs)

 

To echo Lipper, clinging to the administration of the profession based on the 1960s health care arena seems wrong, no?

Change in our profession is inevitable. How we employ it to our benefit is what matters. Documentation of PA competency in a world where our knowledge/abilities are oftee in questions seems like a good thing.

[EMEDPA]

side note: there are now 17 legitimate em pa residencies. 2 require the caq(navy and suny upstate). I know of another opening soon that will as well.

[CAAdmission]

The process is elective; if you want to say it's inevitably going to be mandatory, that's fine, but it's just no the case right now.

The forces that determine these things for PAs often have the ability to maximally employ PAs in mind. It will be interesting to see if changes come about which are proven to hinder the growth of PAs (currently we are still exploding- 100% growth in 10 yrs)

 

To echo Lipper, clinging to the administration of the profession based on the 1960s health care arena seems wrong, no?

Change in our profession is inevitable. How we employ it to our benefit is what matters. Documentation of PA competency in a world where our knowledge/abilities are oftee in questions seems like a good thing.

 

 

We were the one medical profession that could go anywhere, do anything and do it well. That was our shtick. Now that we are pigeonholing ourselves, we are going to be nothing more than nurse practitioners with mandatory supervision. We are some kind of adavanced practitoner, but we are no longer PAs. This is a whole new profession starting up.

 

As to the non-mandatory nature of these exams, the mental cripples at the NCCPA have no ability to make them mandatory. But before long, you will find no hospital will hire you without one, and no insurance company will reimburse you without one. They will only be mandatory if you intend to eat.

 

As to the 17 EM residency programs, what is their carrying capacity? Are they equipped to handle the thousands of new grads who want to go into EM?

[andersenpa]

We were the one medical profession that could go anywhere, do anything and do it well.

 

We still can- what are the actual barriers currently?

 

That was our shtick. Now that we are pigeonholing ourselves, we are going to be nothing more than nurse practitioners with mandatory supervision.

 

and better clinical training

 

We are some kind of adavanced practitoner, but we are no longer PAs.

 

In what way, other than a new elective exam. Are you talking about the current (actual) state or the future (potential) state?

 

This is a whole new profession starting up.

 

Seems appropriate for a whole new era and a whole new patient population and a whole new set of health care laws

 

As to the non-mandatory nature of these exams, the mental cripples at the NCCPA have no ability to make them mandatory. But before long, you will find no hospital will hire you without one, and no insurance company will reimburse you without one. They will only be mandatory if you intend to eat.

 

Is it the presence of the exam, or the cost, or both? No hospital or practice will likely hire you without experience. The CAQ is a marker of expeirence (documented clinical hrs, specialty CME). By that logic no new grad will ever get hired. With the natural process of attrition there will always be a need for new PAs and thus, by an extension, new grads. Practices could not lock themselves out of the hiring market by refusing non CAQ PAs since no new grad or PA w/ less than 1-2 yrs experience could ever get a job.

 

 

As to the 17 EM residency programs, what is their carrying capacity? Are they equipped to handle the thousands of new grads who want to go into EM?

 

No they can't, no specialty has enough residency seat capacity to handle all the PAs entering the field in a given year.

Since residency is providing the knowledge tested in CAQ, the exam should be part of the completion requirements, not a prerequisite. EMED what's the status of that?

 

I don't know of any cardiac residencies employing CAQ.

[CAAdmission]

I'm not thinking "currently." Tomorrow the sun will rise and you will not notice a change. In three years however, this stuff will be a gamechanger.

 

And yes, that is exactly my logic - as more PAs drink the cool aid and want another paper to hang on the wall, CAQs will become widely recognized and no new grads will ever get hired. The residency program admissions process will become a rat race so that people can get in to get their hours to take their CAQ. The rest? They will be stacking books at Barnes and Noble.