What do you think is reasonable..

[user1234556]

I'm posting this in the professional section for a few reasons. Mainly, I feel like the answer to this question changes over time from pre-pa, to PA student, to post-grad, to multiple years of experience. I don't want answers to this from gung-ho, overly-optimistic kids (no offense, just saying.. everything looks different on the other side). What would those of you with an established career say NOW, looking back, and taking into account the current state of the economy/jobs/healthcare issues/banking etc etc, is a reasonable amount of debt to accrue throughout the entire process of becoming a PA, leading to graduation? Do you feel differently now about the number you may have given prior to starting school, or while you were in school? Do you think the factors at play now are different than they were at the time you graduated? Do you agree that most people, and this goes for any profession, are surprised when they get their first job to find that their money situation just isn't quite what they had believed it would be?

 

 

Thanks

[primadonna22274]

I generally don't like to think of total educational debt exceeding a year's salary. I had nearly 100k of debt (only 16k undergrad) and never made more than 112k working F/T (almost always with a 2nd p/t job). I worked one day a week to pay my student loans, another to pay the mortgage...managed to pay them down quite a bit but silly me am now taking on more debt in med school. My earning power as a physician won't likely double but I'm not doing it for the money, although I want to be sure I can pay it back. Won't be paying any kids' college tuition (since I don't have kids guess I'm off the hook). I generally cringe when I hear any PA student mention educational debt of $150k and up...but for that matter kids are coming out of undergrad owing $60k or more with no measurable skills. Yikes.

[HopefulPA]

I am a firm believer that the amount of debt (any debt) is what one should not have to struggle to pay off. Can you pay your debt on what you earn at your primary job (ot not inculded)? If you can't then it is too much....

 

Yes salaries were about what I expected when I graduated.

[user1234556]

My earning power as a physician won't likely double but I'm not doing it for the money

 

why would it not?

[user1234556]

I am a firm believer that the amount of debt (any debt) is what one should not have to struggle to pay off. Can you pay your debt on what you earn at your primary job (ot not inculded)?

 

i guess "struggle" is subjective, which is why i'm asking people who are already out working. what seems doable when you're taking it on, and when you're trying to convince yourself etc, might seem regretful down the road.

[primadonna22274]

Had a good talk with my first SP last week. FM, does well--$240k in a desirable community in Western Oregon. BUT hasn't had a raise (without taking on more responsibility--she's the only FP in town who does OB) in 6-8 yr and fully expects her salary to take a 20% hit in the next decade. More like the next 5 yr. Don't think that's gonna be limited to just the docs--if we're cutting primary care salaries, everyone is gonna feel it.

 

why would it not?

[user1234556]

anybody else want to throw out any numbers..?

[Sara Wajek]

I'm just a pre-PA, but this is what I did. I took the pay difference between what I'm currently making and a low paying PA job. Figured out how much I could borrow with monthly payments equal to what my estimated monthly pay difference was and used that as the max I'm willing to borrow. My thought is that I can comfortably live off of what I'm making now, not that I wouldn't be happy making more. If I could can get a job that I enjoy a lot more than the one I currently have, I will be happier, even if my take home pay isn't any higher.

[just_me]

This may change later but for me it didnt really matter. Dont get me wrong I pondered over this after being accepted to a state school and a private school and eventually went with the private. I think for me it didnt matter because how I felt about the program and where I would spend the next two years of my life was more important....my comfort was worth the money. Plus I have options available to me for loan repayment and such that it made debt less important to think about.. Yes things could always change but then if they do I simply plan to remind myself that I reached my goal and am in a better place than I was in undergrad.

[Febrifuge]

Yeah, me too. Not that it doesn't matter, it just didn't matter enough to stop me.

 

I had around $40k in debt just from my undergrad -- parents just making enough to keep me from need-based aid when I was younger, and then I went and worked for a while so I was independent when I finished the BA. But I was spinning my wheels, and definitely earning less than $40k. It cost a boatload to get ready for and then get through PA school (the total number is quite large, six figures, and more than I'd make in a year now even if I was FT). I'll pay off the private loans within about 10 years (those aren't so much, really) and if there's anything left on the government ones when I die, they go away. I figure if I'm paying rent on my education, so be it.

 

Basically, my attitude is only a little more responsible than that of JP Morgan Bank and the rest of those bozos, only I have to live with my decisions.

[user1234556]

^ yeah, i'm not sure i would call that reasonable.

[ventana]

work for the VA and join the reserves - double dip for loan repayment and in 3-4 years you can be 100% debt free!

[alleycat]

for the personal..(apologies to those of youse who've heard this before)

graduated 56 yo w/debt = 156000, (26000 pa pre-req's (already had BA years before.)

 

in 10 years I've paid off all friend/family, little over 1/2 of graduate loan, all school-credit card debt, tiny amount to the feds and, if the good lord is kind, I will have passed on before making the last payment to the Feds.... just so I can mess with them one last time. :heheh:

[Febrifuge]

Yeah, well, it may not be reasonable (okay, it's not) but it's my reality. And anyway, most people spend enough on houses, cars, and trips - not to mention expensive hobbies - that sooner or later, anyone could be seen to be spending unreasonably, by someone. I guess my question would be, if you REALLY want to be a PA but you wouldn't do it if you knew it would end up costing more than you expected, then do you really want to be a PA?

 

Don't let age or cost keep you from doing what you need to be doing.

[doubledown10]

You pose difficulty questions to answer because everybody is earning differently. As vast as the PA population is, so are the jobs they hold and the money they make for doing those jobs. Some PAs get productivity bonuses, some don't. Some work to afford their lifestyle, some work to pay off their loans so they can have a lifestyle. If you want to be a PA you need to understand that you're going to take on some debt. I agree with most that the debt shouldn't be anything that will suffocate you and make you hate your life/job because you watch your money go to pay off the loan(s). One solution that I stand by, and that I offer as advice to prospective students is military service. People cringe when I mention that and I have had people tell me that they shouldn't have to put on a uniform to get a decent education. But hear this out.........I understand the times that we live in and if you can come to understand that getting this degree and earning the title isn't easy, you will begin to understand that there are some sacrifices that need to be made. If you join the Army/Navy/Air Force reserve, ROTC etc, you will gain a significant financial advantage. I'm a bit biased because I'm a military (Army) trained PA. I came out of school without owing a penny. I never even paid for a book and I got paid to go go school! true I had spent some time in combat, but all things being equal, if you're pre-PA now, heading to war is a long time off, additionally, heading to war as a PA will be some of the best professional growth you can imagine. It makes me feel bad when the PAs that I work with, all of them smart and able, complain that they are watching a significant chunk of the money that they make go to pay back their loans. they are young, they have lives, but they are shackled to that loan payment. In some states, joining their guard qualifies you for 100% tuition assistance. Or you can rack up all your loans, graduate, pass the PANCE, join a branch of the military (army is always hiring) and they will help you pay off your loans.

 

I see PAs all the time struggle against that debt thing and I hate to see it. there are options out there to help ease the burden. But all things being equal, and to answer your question a bit more directly, I wanted to be a PA no matter what. I'm sure that if I didn't go through the Army I would have gone to PA school another way and accepted the financial burden that comes with it. Nothing would have changed for me and i would not have let cost hinder my career aspirations.

[user1234556]

well, for me personally, if i were going to be spending additional time for military training, additional years committed to the military, and then commitment to one area of medicine for the duration of whatever contract i was adhering to, i'd have just gone to medical school. and not to mention, MDs can get their schooling paid in the same way, and in some ways easier. many of the benefits, as i see it, to the PA profession is less time in school/training, lateral mobility from day 1, etc

[sillycibin]

I would just add that if income/debt is very important to someone, you can always look at nursing. Nursing degree from a community college costs peanuts next to a PA degree. Little to no time and money spent doing/re-doing prerequisites. When you take my salary and average it over the hours I work, I make less than the nurses make when you look at their hourly wage. Then take in to account they can get time and a half overtime. Subtract my ~$15,000 a year in loan payments (which is money that still gets taxed as income so it takes about $20,000 of income to muster that payment) and I make less than most nurses do at my hospital. But I also don't have to handle any "code browns."

[paporzelt]

also you have to keep in mind - not everyone gets into, or can move to a less expensive school. all three programs i got into were going to cost the same per yearh. one was a 3 year program, so i nixed that one from my options, one required a move across the country, which that alone can cost quite a bit, and the other meant i had to move about 2 hours away, but none the less into the most expensive city to live in on the east cost (NYC). I opted not to live with someone because I didnt know any of my class mates (and thank god I didnt, because a lot of the people who went blind roommating ended up miserable, either with an oddball, messy roomie, or a party animal), and I have a cat. I worked during my first year as much as I was allowed, which covered my groceries and utilities, but my program did not allow clinical year students to work (and even then i tried to work once a week when i could), and due to a stroke of bad luck my apartment was ransacked and i had all of my electronics stolen, most of which had to be replaced. I dont have parents with money to help, so all of my loans are my own with no co-signer, and with intrest, inlcuding undergrad, my loans arr about 165K.

I come from a family where I am the first college graduate, on both sides. My debt will be paid off in 10 years minimum, im in my 20's (late haha), and my first job as a PA working 36 hours a week, I make more than my father ever has for a 40hr week. I know this was the best thing for me, and I know that while debt sucks, its better than being a medical assistant for the rest of my life, and i love what I do, and I'm so proud of my profession. its not a job - its a career - and careers require some sacrifice. and hopefully I'll qualify for some debt repayment in the future.