bgdog Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The CAPA people came to my school and pitched their services. They talked about how California rates nationally in regards to PA prescribing privileges, chart signing and so on. It sounded good and I was ready to give em my moolah and sign on as a card carrying member of this fine organization. At the very end, they opened it up for questions and someone asked about CAPA's views on the name change and the grass roots effort on this very board. The speaker, a program director from a California PA program and one of the officers of CAPA (forgot which) beat that possibility down swiftly and severely, like stomping on a cockroach. He said it would never happen, that he was against it, (so I assume CAPA is against it also), that this forum was an instrument of the devil and he would die first before he ever let that happen. I decided to buy some beer with the money instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcsmedic Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Did he literally refer to this board as an instrument of the devil and that he'd die before letting it happen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Funny since the forum is not he source of the movement.....but rather a venue to discuss it....kinda like blaming "the media"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 So on a side note Andersonpa; how does it feel to be "the Devil"....... you little devil ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The speaker, a program director from a California PA program and one of the officers of CAPA (forgot which) beat that possibility down swiftly and severely, like stomping on a cockroach. He said it would never happen, that he was against it, (so I assume CAPA is against it also), that this forum was an instrument of the devil and he would die first before he ever let that happen. Maybe there can be an allowance, that will allow him to keep his 'Assistant' title? It sounds like the change will be a bit emotionally scarring for him ... I worry about delicate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 oh, Hemegroup ! ! you soft hearted dear....always concerned for those less strong....those "delicate people". Blessings upon you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Lipper....the devil is in the details....a little detail like the spelling of andersenpa....heheh :=D: ( I need a grinning Cheshire cat emoticon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The CAPA people came to my school and pitched their services. They talked about how California rates nationally in regards to PA prescribing privileges, chart signing and so on. It sounded good and I was ready to give em my moolah and sign on as a card carrying member of this fine organization. At the very end, they opened it up for questions and someone asked about CAPA's views on the name change and the grass roots effort on this very board. The speaker, a program director from a California PA program and one of the officers of CAPA (forgot which) beat that possibility down swiftly and severely, like stomping on a cockroach. He said it would never happen, that he was against it, (so I assume CAPA is against it also), that this forum was an instrument of the devil and he would die first before he ever let that happen. I decided to buy some beer with the money instead. As a lifelong member of the California Academy, and a friend to most of the current members of the BOD, your perception of his response to the question really surprised me. You were there, and I wasn't, so it is what it is. On the other hand, I don't know if you plan to practice in California, but I want to give you another perspective. I assume that you will become licensed in the near future and practice in California, one of the states with the best practice acts in the nation. Salaries are also among the highest in the nation. I started practice in this state 30 years ago, in a horrible environment for PAs. I made $24,000 my first year. The reason that we have good pay, an excellent practice environment and solid reimbursement, is CAPA. When you write your prescriptions, sign a myriad of forms, have excellent regulation, practice in virtually every health care environment in the state, and get your first high five figure paycheck, you should thank CAPA and all the members who have supported CAPA since 1976 in working on your behalf, and on whose shoulders you stand. Or you can buy beer. Just don't come complaining to me and CAPA when you run into an issue threatening your practice as a PA, should you make the choice to not to support the only organization that is advocating for your rights as a PA in Sacramento and throughout California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2011 While supporting state, specialty, and national organizations is important, those organizations have to listen to their members and pursue issues important to them. I was a member of capa for several yrs when I was a ca pa and have nothing bad to say about them. They worked to get us prescription rights(when I started there we had none) and favorable supervision requirements. I believe the individual talking at your school was giving his personal opinion(which he did not make clear) and not the "official position of capa". if that was an official position they risk losing members who feel their organization is out of touch with what the members want. California ranks #2 after NY for #s of pa's asking for a name change in the current letter to the aapa at www.associatenamechange.com of the almost 6000 current signatures nationally over 1000 come from california. in the next few days we will hit over 6000 pa's who have made their preference known. that is more than twice the # of folks who voted in the last aapa election. more folks care about this than who runs their national organization. a lot more. and we did it informally without any list of pa's to work from, just word of mouth. imagine if every pa was given the option to weigh in on this. ..... the aapa will need to listen to those 6000+ voices and sit down for a serious conversation about what they will do with that info. fyi: the state societies of oregon, arizona, and maine have all placed info about the name change movement on their sites. these are not letters of support, just a heads up for their members about what is going on so they can decide their feelings on the issue. the family practice and airforce pa specialty societies have publicly come out in favor of the name change. momentum is building and we are just getting started..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 As a lifelong member of the California Academy, and a friend to most of the current members of the BOD, your perception of his response to the question really surprised me. You were there, and I wasn't, so it is what it is. On the other hand, I don't know if you plan to practice in California, but I want to give you another perspective. I assume that you will become licensed in the near future and practice in California, one of the states with the best practice acts in the nation. Salaries are also among the highest in the nation. I started practice in this state 30 years ago, in a horrible environment for PAs. I made $24,000 my first year. The reason that we have good pay, an excellent practice environment and solid reimbursement, is CAPA. When you write your prescriptions, sign a myriad of forms, have excellent regulation, practice in virtually every health care environment in the state, and get your first high five figure paycheck, you should thank CAPA and all the members who have supported CAPA since 1976 in working on your behalf, and on whose shoulders you stand. Or you can buy beer. Just don't come complaining to me and CAPA when you run into an issue threatening your practice as a PA, should you make the choice to not to support the only organization that is advocating for your rights as a PA in Sacramento and throughout California. Steve- I want to echo EMEDPA's comments and add a few thoughts. And, obviously, none of us except the OP were at the meeting in question so who knows exactly what was said and how it was said. BUT....in hearing the responses to our name change initiative over the past year, there are some, er, emphatic and forceful opinions against it. So a response as this was described..... is not out of the realm of possibility. The progresion in CA practice rights are a result of state academy work. This work was done to better the profession and promote the desires of CA PAs. Isn't it only intuitive that CAPA should continue to carry that torch and 1) represent the desires of their consituents, or 2) at least make that information available to CA PAs? As EMEDPA said three states have done so. The AFPPA and Air Force PAs have as well. There is a difference between an endorsement and serving the role of informing your state's PAs. That difference is probably a matter of opinion depending on which side of the issue you sit on. But it's not hard to say that CAPA (or other states) are sitting on the issue and hoping it goes away simply because of their personal ideology. There appears to be enough anecdotal evidence that the assistant title has objectively hindered many PAs in their practice. This IS a matter of professional advancement in tune with prescriptive rights, reimbursement, and salary. The question is how can CAPA keep their constituents in the dark with good conscience? Matt Andersen, PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2011 Agree with Matt about the emphatic responses. some have gone beyond emphatic such as the recent letter from an editorial board member published in JAAPA which was derogatory, unprofessional, and insulting in its childlike dismissal of an issue considered serious by many practicing pa's( a significant number of whom are current aapa members.) disagreeing with the name change is fine. insulting your colleagues in the professional journal of your organization is way out of bounds. the article should have been withdrawn and/or an apology issued for such unprofessional conduct. To its credit jaapa then printed another editorial written by a well respected physician and pa program faculty member in favor of the name change. both articles then had a comment added at the bottom that the opinions expressed were those of the authors and not the editorial board of jaapa. a good step but something they should have thought of before allowing publication of the original article. how would folks have felt if a similar dismissive article was written about the movement to get pa's approved to order hospice care? the author would have been asked to step down from his editorial board position.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Colleagues, I'm done debating the name of the profession. My comments had to do with a future PA who is making a decision on whether or not to support his state Academy based on a presenter's opinion on a controversial issue with which the student disagreed. If there is a disagreement with the California Academy as to whether or not to pursue a name change, I suggest folks get involved. Policy is made by folks who show up. If you disagree with folks making policy decisions on your behalf, elected by members, then it is your responsibility to throw your hat in the ring and commit time, effort and money to make a difference. Don't expect others to carry your water for you. I have been impressed by the grassroots organizing of those supporting a different name. Your action has to go beyond letters. If you want change, you have to get involved and change the formal policy of the AAPA which recognizes "physician assistant" as the official title of the profession, set by the House of delegates, elected by the state's PAs, or at a minimum, delete the policy. Policy set by the House of Delegates drives the decisions of the BOD. It also drives all strategic planning and budgeting of the Academy. Real change starts with each and every PA. If you are serious about this campaign, then become an active agent of change and don't expect others to do all the work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Colleagues, I'm done debating the name of the profession. My comments had to do with a future PA who is making a decision on whether or not to support his state Academy based on a presenter's opinion on a controversial issue with which the student disagreed. If there is a disagreement with the California Academy as to whether or not to pursue a name change, I suggest folks get involved. Policy is made by folks who show up. If you disagree with folks making policy decisions on your behalf, elected by members, then it is your responsibility to throw your hat in the ring and commit time, effort and money to make a difference. Don't expect others to carry your water for you. I have been impressed by the grassroots organizing of those supporting a different name. Your action has to go beyond letters. If you want change, you have to get involved and change the formal policy of the AAPA which recognizes "physician assistant" as the official title of the profession, set by the House of delegates, elected by the state's PAs, or at a minimum, delete the policy. Policy set by the House of Delegates drives the decisions of the BOD. It also drives all strategic planning and budgeting of the Academy. Real change starts with each and every PA. If you are serious about this campaign, then become an active agent of change and don't expect others to do all the work for you. EMEDPA and I are both members and supporters of our state chapters and the national academy. The name change advocates will disagree on whether to support the AAPA. I will remain a WAPA and AAPA member primarily for the reasons you state- you don't contribute in some way, you can't complain. Even if the AAPA isn't moving on THIS, most of us see & understand what they ARE doing. Sure they could be more proactive and responsive to issues that arise, but nothing is perfect. The issue was actually not your personal feelings on the name change, or even CAPAs official position. It is that they do a disservice to CA PAs by not informing them of the movement at hand, whether they believe in it or not. Not every PA was behind the Obama/Democratic health reform movement; it was highly contentious and volatile for many- but the AAPA and the states did their part in acting as a conduit of information, or getting actively involved (as you were). Finally (as EMEDPA and I are on the committee) the name change issue is beyond letters and websites. These things take time and willing participants on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgdog Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Just don't come complaining to me and CAPA when you run into an issue threatening your practice as a PA, should you make the choice to not to support the only organization that is advocating for your rights as a PA in Sacramento and throughout California. I'm not going to come complaining to you, I don't know you. To reiterate: I sat there, listened to the pitch, read the printed materials, it sounded reasonable and was ready to write the check and support the organization that more than likely made practicing in this state better for PA’s. However, when the question is "What is CAPA's position on the name change" and the guy who seems to be in charge, responds NOT with a well modulated, political answer that acknowledges both sides of the issue, giving credence to all parties involved, BUT with his scathing personal views attacking an issue that a lot of people are in favor of...well...the only thing I can assume is that CAPA and this guy are one and the same. Now, I’m a busy guy and don’t have a lot of time to commit to this or any other cause. If I go into your store and buy some doughnuts, and if your doughnuts taste crappy of if you’re a D-bag, then I just don’t buy doughnuts at your store anymore. Same here, I ain’t buying what CAPA is selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgdog Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Did he literally refer to this board as an instrument of the devil and that he'd die before letting it happen?? No, I'm paraphrasing, however, the venom and wrath was real and unmistakeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm not going to come complaining to you, I don't know you. Now, I’m a busy guy and don’t have a lot of time to commit to this or any other cause. If I go into your store and buy some doughnuts, and if your doughnuts taste crappy of if you’re a D-bag, then I just don’t buy doughnuts at your store anymore. Same here, I ain’t buying what CAPA is selling. bgdog - I'm sincerely hoping that you will take greater care in evaluating and treating the patients who will rely on you for their healthcare than you do evaluating and judging an organization that over the last 35 years has created the great environment in which you will be practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebecker Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 To EMEDPA, burnpac, and Mr. Andersen, I appreciate the well thought out discussion. Mr. Hansen - as a past president of the AAPA I'm sure you've heard a lot of discussion on the topic going back several years. Could you tell me, please, what the general tone of the discussion has been? I'm a new PA and have only really heard what has been discussed on this board (overwhelmingly in favor of a name change), and what my classmates have had to say (also in favor of the name change), but the older PAs that I have spoken to (I assume you've heard of Ruth Ballweg) have mentioned that it is not a possibility and that we should direct our efforts accordingly. If you wouldn't mind sharing with me the general tone of the PAs on the HOD and other state representatives, I'd appreciate it. I don't feel you need to discuss it or justify it, but it would be helpful to know what, generally, the PAs you've talked to have to say. To bgdog: we're all busy. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US IS BUSY. You will make time for what is important to you, it's as simple as that. What Mr. Hansen was saying was meant to steer you away from complaining without any sort of backup to your words. You're upset.... great.... so do something about it. I for one support my local chapter and the AAPA because, while I'm not actively involved in the campaign for a name change, I know there is a lot to be accomplished yet by PAs as a whole and the AAPA is the way to get most of it done. What the AAPA can't get done is what we need to do on our own. When the timing is more appropriate, I will become involved and work to get things done. And so should we all. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Dear Andrew, Please call me Steve. I will send you a private message with my thoughts on this. I'm no longer willing to publicly discuss the pros and cons of the issue as I have said everything there is to say about it, and have heard every argument for an against many times. If you search on my profile, you will also find my participation in many debates on this and other subjects. This debate has consumed inordinate bandwidth since I became a PA 30 years ago, and the time has come to settle this issue one way or the other. I really appreciate your global mindedness and willingness to work for change. As Kennedy said, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 9, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2011 the time has come to settle this issue one way or the other." On that point we are in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LESH Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Well it looks like stand corrected on this.... LesH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I'm done debating the name of the profession. My comments had to do with a future PA who is making a decision on whether or not to support his state Academy based on a presenter's opinion on a controversial issue with which the student disagreed. If there is a disagreement with the California Academy as to whether or not to pursue a name change, I suggest folks get involved. Policy is made by folks who show up. If you disagree with folks making policy decisions on your behalf, elected by members, then it is your responsibility to throw your hat in the ring and commit time, effort and money to make a difference. Don't expect others to carry your water for you. This^^^^^ Steve, you and I are old friends, and it's no secret about my position on the name change. If people want this to happen, then they ALL need to join the AAPA and their state organizations. The AAPA's policy and direction is set by the HOD which is comprised of the state societies and specialty organizations. You don't like the direction it's going....join and GET involved....join a state committee, offer to represent their state in the HOD..... You can effect change if you want....but not by simply complaining about how your state and national organizations are not representing you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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