mikejfox Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 http://www.istockanalyst.com/business/news/5366981/registration-closes-early-september-for-physician-assistant-new-specialty-exam What affect will PAs specializing have on the profession as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 18, 2011 we have been specializing for years. the question is what will a specialty cert exam mean. eventually it will become a defacto requirement for employment I think. all else being equal someone with the cert looks better than someone without. I interviewed a pa for a position last week and was asked if we would be requiring it. I said "not at the present time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 So, you think the time is coming when our jobs will depend on taking two exams? Will there be such a thing as a PA without specialization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Does anyone know of any studies, etc that show the present situation concerning employment and pay scales for speciality PAs vs non speciality PAs. I am doing my own little research, nothing earth-shaking or high filutin'. I am just interested. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 18, 2011 So, you think the time is coming when our jobs will depend on taking two exams? Will there be such a thing as a PA without specialization? yup, a primary care pa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Does anyone know of any studies, etc that show the present situation concerning employment and pay scales for speciality PAs vs non speciality PAs. I am doing my own little research, nothing earth-shaking or high filutin'. I am just interested. Thanks That' all in the AAPA and Advance data. AAPA reports overall income, and Advance puts out a specialty salary report, both annually. I don't recall AAPA putting out spec salaries in the general report each yr but you can pay for a custom specialty regional salary profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcstout Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 So, you think the time is coming when our jobs will depend on taking two exams? Will there be such a thing as a PA without specialization? It is my understanding that the CAQ exam is taken in lieu of the PANRE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It is my understanding that the CAQ exam is taken in lieu of the PANRE. That was not my understanding, unless things have changed since the initial discussion. The CAQ is not a formal certification and is not (yet) required by any state. The PA will still have to maintain nat'l cert through PANCE/PANRE. The CAQ is, right now, an elective acknowledgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks for the information. As usual, this site is a great source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 That was not my understanding, unless things have changed since the initial discussion. The CAQ is not a formal certification and is not (yet) required by any state. The PA will still have to maintain nat'l cert through PANCE/PANRE. The CAQ is, right now, an elective acknowledgment. I just went through a briefing by a rep from NCCPA this week covering this topic. Matt is on the money, it's in addition to PANRE and currently optional, although for some specialties such as cardiothoracic who have pushed hard for this it will probably be required for employment in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookspa Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 cha ching, cha ching, cha ching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btg138 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 If it becomes a requirement for a job, and there is a requirement for hours of experiene in that specialty to sit for the CAQ (which is my understanding), how will a new PA be able to get into the field? For me, one of the great perks of the profession was the lateral mobility. I hate to think that after years in one area (internal med, hospitalist), I'd have to start back at square one with a new specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phooey Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Exactly BTG. Can anyone explain to me the problem that this certification is solving? It seems that as PAs we are trying harder and harder to be like our physician colleagues and less like the IDEAL of a PA. Doctorate programs, residencies and specialty certs. But what is the advantage? Other than more pay for those who hold these certifications, I see none. This ill-founded idea will in the long run remove almost any chance of lateral movement and, in the case of new grads, will make residencies the required course to obtain such certs. Now, for someone in a specialty for which a cert exists, this will more than likely bring more pay and certainly a warm and fuzzy feeling of having another fancy piece of paper to hang on the wall. For PAs like myself who like the idea of being able to change specialties when the the need is felt, this will be nothing more than a pain in the butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think in the future (within 10 years) certain specialties will required residency if there are enough residency spots. Specialties like EM and Surgeries. The president of SEMPA, John Graykoski would like to see EM residency becoming a requirement. It was mentioned in the recent EM physician article: http://www.epmonthly.com/features/current-features/making-sense-of-mid-levels/ "The reality is that we do have a lot of people coming in to PA school today who don’t have the rich experience that our army medics have. Because of that, realistically looking to the future, residency training of some type is going to become a reality." - John Graykoski - PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbreeze Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thank you for all the information on this thread. I have been wondering about CAQ for a while and the same question comes to my mind, how will new grad PAs get this certificate without any experience? I personally think CAQ will become a requirement for those in the residencies. Not really a requirement I guess you can say they will get CAQ after completing their residences (5-10 yrs down the road). I just don't see how they can enforce CAQ for all the specialties, unless of course a residency is required for every one of those fields besides primary care. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The concern hinges on whether employers will require it. Residency is not necessary to meet the reqs, but a PA would get the case load done faster in residency most likely. The CAQ is just giving a name to experience, which employers have the discretion to require. Any practice generally hire experienced over inexperienced PAs. The only way new grads get locked out is if jobs refuse to hire a PA without the CAQ. Which is the same thing as refusing to hire new grads. Some do....some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phooey Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why do we have to give such restrictive name to experience? It seems like this just gives employers an easier way to cull prospective employees. But forget about employers, what is the added benefit to PAs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoc Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Exactly BTG. Can anyone explain to me the problem that this certification is solving? It seems that as PAs we are trying harder and harder to be like our physician colleagues and less like the IDEAL of a PA. Doctorate programs, residencies and specialty certs. But what is the advantage? Other than more pay for those who hold these certifications, I see none. This ill-founded idea will in the long run remove almost any chance of lateral movement and, in the case of new grads, will make residencies the required course to obtain such certs. Now, for someone in a specialty for which a cert exists, this will more than likely bring more pay and certainly a warm and fuzzy feeling of having another fancy piece of paper to hang on the wall. For PAs like myself who like the idea of being able to change specialties when the the need is felt, this will be nothing more than a pain in the butt. It is solving the concern that some physician groups have regarding the preparation of PA's for the physicians' specialties. Given the path that physicians must take to be board certified, it is not surprising that they would expect the same from PA's and eschew the idea that a generalist PA is sufficiently well-trained to enter the MD's area without specialty training. The creation of the CAQ by the NCCPA is in direct response to a threat from outside non-PA groups to build it themselves. As "specialty certification" has no legal standing with regard to licensure, there is/was nothing stopping anyone (including for-profit entities) from creating an exam or a certificate on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Why do we have to give such restrictive name to experience? It seems like this just gives employers an easier way to cull prospective employees. But forget about employers, what is the added benefit to PAs? It's certificate of ADDED qualifications not MANDATORY qualifications. Again...employers want an experienced PA. CAQ is not culling prospective employees if they are not experienced to begin with. See eddocs post re necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noreaster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I was at a CME this past month, (PAOS in Chicago), and a PA, who also works for NCCPA talked about CAQ at a lecture. Just about the entire audience sounded resistant to the CAQ and very legit concerns were raised. My concern is that work places, hospital credentialing, and even insurances will begin to work their own policies and require the CAQ--regardless if NCCPA requires is or not. Our profession is an ambiguous one. IMHO, adding CAQ only adds ambiguity on top of ambiguity!! In my mind, it is NOT hard to imagine hospitals saying they require this to be credentialed. Hospitals make their own policies and we gotta jump through their hoops. Picture this: You work in Orthopedics and you order an MRI and then the MA comes back to you and says, "they denied your order for MRI" and when you look into why, it's b/c that particular insurance moved toward requiring the CAQ cert. Then, in this case, we're taking steps backwards b/c would need to get a doc's signature for the order. I think moving forward with CAQ is not well thought-out and only ads ambiguity to a profession struggling to always have to educate the world and fight battles and make laws, etc, etc... When some of these concerns were raised--among other very valid ones--to the NCCPA rep speaking to us, there was a tone of, "it doesn't really matter what you--the PAs--think, it's going through regardless... I wish there were a way we could all bombard the NCCPA and/or somehow validly and legitimately resist... but, I fear there is no mechanism for us to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I wish there were a way we could all bombard the NCCPA and/or somehow validly and legitimately resist... but, I fear there is no mechanism for us to. There is....just look at what is happening with the physician associate campaign and the AAPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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