Just Steve Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That's biochem. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That's biochem. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho0v-man Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) That makes me feel so much better since I'm reading this forum right now to procrastinate from studying for an o-chem II test. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho0v-man Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) That makes me feel so much better since I'm reading this forum right now to procrastinate from studying for an o-chem II test. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) (enough to get into PA school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 actually all the ochem you will ever need as a pa or pance/panre is right here within these brackets ( ) (enough to get into PA school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2011 [enough to get into PA school)/ Knowing where to apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2011 [enough to get into PA school)/ Knowing where to apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 [enough to get into PA school)/ Knowing where to apply There are ways to bypass it I suppose, but 1) PA school is very competitive so for the average person, keeping your options open is a plus 2) It is a requirement for many science undergrad degrees as it is so might as well do well in it to protect the gpa. But I agree, knowing o chem does nothing to help someone care for patients. But for many (most?) it is one of the many unfortunate formalities that must be take care of to get to where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 [enough to get into PA school)/ Knowing where to apply There are ways to bypass it I suppose, but 1) PA school is very competitive so for the average person, keeping your options open is a plus 2) It is a requirement for many science undergrad degrees as it is so might as well do well in it to protect the gpa. But I agree, knowing o chem does nothing to help someone care for patients. But for many (most?) it is one of the many unfortunate formalities that must be take care of to get to where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ochem is mainly important(other than to chemists) as a stepping stone to biochem, which has a great deal of application in medicine. How much of that application exists in a practical, every day sense, I could not say as a pre-PA(though emed asserts there is none). However, the MD vs. PA education threads that show up here often point to two main differences: a residency and a greater delving into the underlying science of medicine. I would think that one would want to arm his or herself with as much knowledge as possible to have a greater understanding of the intricacies of disease processes, as many are often rooted in a single alteration of a particular pathway, and into things like nutrient metabolism, anabolism/catabolism, etc. It seems ironic that those who promote doing the bare minimum education to get into PA school(i.e. avoiding subjects like ochem and applying to schools that don't require it) would totally object to someone doing the bare minimum HCE. I would think that far surpassing the minimums of all areas would make a far stronger candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ochem is mainly important(other than to chemists) as a stepping stone to biochem, which has a great deal of application in medicine. How much of that application exists in a practical, every day sense, I could not say as a pre-PA(though emed asserts there is none). However, the MD vs. PA education threads that show up here often point to two main differences: a residency and a greater delving into the underlying science of medicine. I would think that one would want to arm his or herself with as much knowledge as possible to have a greater understanding of the intricacies of disease processes, as many are often rooted in a single alteration of a particular pathway, and into things like nutrient metabolism, anabolism/catabolism, etc. It seems ironic that those who promote doing the bare minimum education to get into PA school(i.e. avoiding subjects like ochem and applying to schools that don't require it) would totally object to someone doing the bare minimum HCE. I would think that far surpassing the minimums of all areas would make a far stronger candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 It seems ironic that those who promote doing the bare minimum education to get into PA school(i.e. avoiding subjects like ochem and applying to schools that don't require it) would totally object to someone doing the bare minimum HCE. I would think that far surpassing the minimums of all areas would make a far stronger candidate. I think the difference of the examples you give...classes verses experience is comparing two dissimilar principals. (of course, I am of the HCE crowd, not so strong in the academics so I am biased). But I have a hard time finding a suitable replacement for experience in my mind. The knowledge gained by it cannot be replaced or substituted anywhere else. The details learned in a class that is known to have little relevance to the day to day operations of a PA is heavily outweighed by being "hands on" with patients in my opinion. Having both heavy experience AND great academia would be a blessing but that seems to be the Great White Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 It seems ironic that those who promote doing the bare minimum education to get into PA school(i.e. avoiding subjects like ochem and applying to schools that don't require it) would totally object to someone doing the bare minimum HCE. I would think that far surpassing the minimums of all areas would make a far stronger candidate. I think the difference of the examples you give...classes verses experience is comparing two dissimilar principals. (of course, I am of the HCE crowd, not so strong in the academics so I am biased). But I have a hard time finding a suitable replacement for experience in my mind. The knowledge gained by it cannot be replaced or substituted anywhere else. The details learned in a class that is known to have little relevance to the day to day operations of a PA is heavily outweighed by being "hands on" with patients in my opinion. Having both heavy experience AND great academia would be a blessing but that seems to be the Great White Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think the difference of the examples you give...classes verses experience is comparing two dissimilar principals. (of course, I am of the HCE crowd, not so strong in the academics so I am biased). But I have a hard time finding a suitable replacement for experience in my mind. The knowledge gained by it cannot be replaced or substituted anywhere else. The details learned in a class that is known to have little relevance to the day to day operations of a PA is heavily outweighed by being "hands on" with patients in my opinion. Having both heavy experience AND great academia would be a blessing but that seems to be the Great White Buffalo. That statement was not meant to compare the benefits of HCE vs. academics nor to suggest what sort of balancing act between them makes an ideal candidate. It was only to point out that it's ironic to be alright with people doing the bare minimum but only if it's in academics. I guess what I'm saying is that the militant aversion to ochem and the like is strange and comes across as "well I didn't do it so nobody else should either." Aside from the fact that the majority of science majors will have to take it anyway, why wouldn't one encourage potential PAs to get as big an arsenal of knowledge as possible(keeping in mind that ochem is a useful, if not very important, step to biochem)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think the difference of the examples you give...classes verses experience is comparing two dissimilar principals. (of course, I am of the HCE crowd, not so strong in the academics so I am biased). But I have a hard time finding a suitable replacement for experience in my mind. The knowledge gained by it cannot be replaced or substituted anywhere else. The details learned in a class that is known to have little relevance to the day to day operations of a PA is heavily outweighed by being "hands on" with patients in my opinion. Having both heavy experience AND great academia would be a blessing but that seems to be the Great White Buffalo. That statement was not meant to compare the benefits of HCE vs. academics nor to suggest what sort of balancing act between them makes an ideal candidate. It was only to point out that it's ironic to be alright with people doing the bare minimum but only if it's in academics. I guess what I'm saying is that the militant aversion to ochem and the like is strange and comes across as "well I didn't do it so nobody else should either." Aside from the fact that the majority of science majors will have to take it anyway, why wouldn't one encourage potential PAs to get as big an arsenal of knowledge as possible(keeping in mind that ochem is a useful, if not very important, step to biochem)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think we may be best suited to carry this conversation once we are practicing PAs. From this side of the chasm (not yet practicing) I can only speculate. However, once we're through and looking back at it all, I think a more educated theory could be constructed. This past Monday we started covering the construction of steroids and proteins and all that fun stuff. Dr. Evans had sketched diagrams, full chemical names, had the proteases and the amalyzes and all the other enzymes all laid out in overheads and he was just going on and on and on about all their wonderful magical construction through the world of DNA replication and RNA, mRNA...much like this run on sentence. Then he paused and said "all of you out there who are currently freaking out. Stop. Flip back the other way...none of this is on the test for Monday. I am simply introducing the language of medicine. We will cover this in much more bite sized pieces over the next year." I have to admit that when he started tossing up the diagrams I was one of those who were in panic mode. We had covered some in an intro cell-bio class I took and touched on it in A&P but I felt like I was sinking. I was so relieved to learn that essentially, the school is going to teach us what we need to know to be a well functioning PA. So meet me on the other side of PA school and we'll have a conversation over a meal at some PA convention in Las Vegas. We may even talk about the benefits of advanced chemistry courses for the Pre PA student :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think we may be best suited to carry this conversation once we are practicing PAs. From this side of the chasm (not yet practicing) I can only speculate. However, once we're through and looking back at it all, I think a more educated theory could be constructed. This past Monday we started covering the construction of steroids and proteins and all that fun stuff. Dr. Evans had sketched diagrams, full chemical names, had the proteases and the amalyzes and all the other enzymes all laid out in overheads and he was just going on and on and on about all their wonderful magical construction through the world of DNA replication and RNA, mRNA...much like this run on sentence. Then he paused and said "all of you out there who are currently freaking out. Stop. Flip back the other way...none of this is on the test for Monday. I am simply introducing the language of medicine. We will cover this in much more bite sized pieces over the next year." I have to admit that when he started tossing up the diagrams I was one of those who were in panic mode. We had covered some in an intro cell-bio class I took and touched on it in A&P but I felt like I was sinking. I was so relieved to learn that essentially, the school is going to teach us what we need to know to be a well functioning PA. So meet me on the other side of PA school and we'll have a conversation over a meal at some PA convention in Las Vegas. We may even talk about the benefits of advanced chemistry courses for the Pre PA student :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I was so relieved to learn that essentially, the school is going to teach us what we need to know to be a well functioning PA. What you will find is that PA school teaches you all you need to know to BEGIN learning how to be a GENERAL practitioner. Unfortunately, many (if not most) PAs will enter a specialty that PA school did little to truly prepare them for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I was so relieved to learn that essentially, the school is going to teach us what we need to know to be a well functioning PA. What you will find is that PA school teaches you all you need to know to BEGIN learning how to be a GENERAL practitioner. Unfortunately, many (if not most) PAs will enter a specialty that PA school did little to truly prepare them for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 What you will find is that PA school teaches you all you need to know to BEGIN learning how to be a GENERAL practitioner. Unfortunately, many (if not most) PAs will enter a specialty that PA school did little to truly prepare them for. I am a true believer, and it's only my opinion, that school teaches you about 20% of what you really need to know to be successful in any given field. One of the biggest mistake any graduate can make from any sort of advanced education is to hit the job market thinking they have it all dialed in. Personally, I do not aspire to work in pediatric cardiothoracic surgery or neurology or any other high end specialty. I was actually one of those guys who was serious when they answered "to work in rural medicine and be a member of the community". I've spent my time on the cutting edge of adrenaline medicine. If I need a fix, I know where to find it. For now...bring on Johnny and his case of the sniffles. I'll even see his mom at the same time for her high cholesterol and persistent depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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