IM-Family Med Offer -- NEW GRAD - Please help

[PA-NDA]

Is this a good offer?

 

I'm a new grad. It's a multi-specialty service medical center, mostly low income patients, a lot of medicare, some Medic-aid, and the rest HMO/PPO.

 

Position is in Internal Med/Family Med (but with some peds from overflow) and some opportunities to round in-patient hospital (if desired) or first assist with general/vascular surgeon (if desired). Patient load 3-4 per hour (20-25 a day). This place seems new to hiring PAs (only 1 newly hired PA currently there and 1 NP). It seems they want to allow the new PA to try working in different aspects in order to keep the job interesting. Currently it seems the PA there is doing a lot of senior physical exams, with a mix of general internal med/family med practice. 40 hours/week M-F, no call, no weekends. Opportunities to earn more during urgent care hours (if desired).

 

--$94,000 per year (~$45/hr)

 

--Quarterly bonuses based on performance metrics, which are paid out every 3 months, but basically equate to 11% of salary or an additional $5/hr, so $104,050 ($50/hr) if all quarterly bonuses met. These are not guaranteed though. This is a new thing they’re doing and don’t know the exact details of it all. 

 

--PTO: 11 days (this is standard across the board for all their employees so probably NON-negotiable)

 

--3 sick days per year

 

--9 paid holidays

 

--Full malpractice insurance with tail coverage.

 

--Health insurance and dental (sponsored plans cost from $1000-$3000 /year out of paycheck)

 

--CME is offered at their local affiliated hospital (free, and they pay hospital privileges). No mention of the time off for CME or if other CME expenses covered.

 

--401k with 3% matching

 

Flexibility to try working in specialties is the main thing about this offer.

 

Thanks ahead of time for your help!!!

[delco714]

9.5 hr days 5 days a week? There goes the good salary..Basically working six days a week in 5 days time. Also 11 flexible days off and 9 mandatory holidays.. I could and would never accept 11 days off

[PA-NDA]

9.5 hr days 5 days a week? There goes the good salary..Basically working six days a week in 5 days time. Also 11 flexible days off and 9 mandatory holidays.. I could and would never accept 11 days off

Sorry i'm assuming there's an hour lunch in there every day. So perhaps it would be more like five 8.5-hour shifts a week (so 42.5 hours a week). You bring up a great point though, and I should get it clarified or use it as a base salary negotiation point.

 

Also I'm not aware of what are acceptable number of PTO days. Could you give some numbers as to what is average and great for someone in this position? 

 

Thanks for your input!

[delco714]

My wife work as pcp. She gets 8wk (cme, pto, sick, holiday all from that). I get 7 I urology. We're over avg in terms of time off. Sweet spot seems to be close to 4 weeks off (20 days) but then holidays get jumbled around. I would at least try and get 15 days off then the 9 holiday. Then you need to work on cme time off, additional funds

[PA-NDA]

My wife work as pcp. She gets 8wk (cme, pto, sick, holiday all from that). I get 7 I urology. We're over avg in terms of time off. Sweet spot seems to be close to 4 weeks off (20 days) but then holidays get jumbled around. I would at least try and get 15 days off then the 9 holiday. Then you need to work on cme time off, additional funds

Thanks for the numbers. Wow, 7 weeks is amazing. I'm going to counter for 15 days PTO, (original offer was at 11 days PTO and 9 holidays paid), and $97,000 base salary. What do you think?

 

Also I'm asking for the additional stuff: CME expenses, CME time off (5 days), reimburse for DEA and state lic fee. It's likely they will say no to the CME stuff since it's offered free at their affiliated hospital which I'll get privileges for. I'm not sure how they expect me to use my time to go there and earn the CME credit (during my lunch breaks?). I started an email and I feel like I'm asking for a lot. I found out the newly hired PA took the same offer I got without hesitation. 

 

You made such a good point about the 9.5 hour days (which, if they give me lunch breaks, might just be 8.5 hour shifts). I'm not sure how to tell them that I'm not okay with it. Any ideas?

 

Sorry I really appreciate your help.

[jsmitty33]

Are the 3 sick days included in your 11 days PTO? If so that is really low. I would ask for at least 18-20 days PTO with the sick days included and then 5 days PTO for CME.

[PA-NDA]

Are the 3 sick days included in your 11 days PTO? If so that is really low. I would ask for at least 18-20 days PTO with the sick days included and then 5 days PTO for CME.

The 3 sick days are not included in 11 PTO. I know it's really low. I'm going to counter them today. I think asking for 20 days PTO is a lot because they have a system where all employees get time off under a "tenured" system like 0-5 years employment gets 11 days PTO. 5-10 years gets 16 days PTO. And then 10+ years gets 20 days PTO. They stated that everyone gets 3 days (extra) for sick. It seems like if there's a system in place where everyone get equal time off, it's harder to change. Thus I'm going to have to try to increase in salary. 

 

Problem is, that I'm not sure if much can increase the offer package. Like maybe they will come back with a base base salary of $95k (if I counter with $97k), which considering the low PTO (a value of at least $1800/week for PTO), is not that much again.

 

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

[PA-NDA]

What is a good starting hourly wage or salary for a family med/internal med PA new grad in Southern California?

 

I've read all the AAPA NCCPA stats, and they aren't really helpful with determining newly graduated PA salaries.

[loliz]

It's not really worth considering the "hourly" pay, if your pay is based on salary. If it is $45/hr and you actually get paid for the 42.5 hours, that is an extra $113/week (~$5,000/year for weeks) so that can make your $93,600, nearly $100K. Thats even if you are an exempt employee, even more if you can manage to get time and a half for those hours.

 

As for the "free" CME- they should give you time to go get this CME during your normally scheduled work time. They should not expect you to do this on your own time, especially if they are acting like this is a benefit of the job.

 

I think everyone covered the PTO- you def need more than their base offering. Even if you negotiate a higher salary, actually having to work 50 weeks a year is exhausting. Everyone needs time off to recharge and to share time and occasions with their loved ones.

[delco714]

It's not really worth considering the "hourly" pay, if your pay is based on salary. If it is $45/hr and you actually get paid for the 42.5 hours, that is an extra $113/week (~$5,000/year for weeks) so that can make your $93,600, nearly $100K. Thats even if you are an exempt employee, even more if you can manage to get time and a half for those hours.

 

As for the "free" CME- they should give you time to go get this CME during your normally scheduled work time. They should not expect you to do this on your own time, especially if they are acting like this is a benefit of the job.

 

I think everyone covered the PTO- you def need more than their base offering. Even if you negotiate a higher salary, actually having to work 50 weeks a year is exhausting. Everyone needs time off to recharge and to share time and occasions with their loved ones.

You totally missed why we're using hours and salary calculations. It's the whole foundation of why salary is a rip off..ps where do you think your salary calculation comes from? An hourly based system.

[delco714]

 

 

Thanks for the numbers. Wow, 7 weeks is amazing. I'm going to counter for 15 days PTO, (original offer was at 11 days PTO and 9 holidays paid), and $97,000 base salary. What do you think?

 

Also I'm asking for the additional stuff: CME expenses, CME time off (5 days), reimburse for DEA and state lic fee. It's likely they will say no to the CME stuff since it's offered free at their affiliated hospital which I'll get privileges for. I'm not sure how they expect me to use my time to go there and earn the CME credit (during my lunch breaks?). I started an email and I feel like I'm asking for a lot. I found out the newly hired PA took the same offer I got without hesitation.

 

You made such a good point about the 9.5 hour days (which, if they give me lunch breaks, might just be 8.5 hour shifts). I'm not sure how to tell them that I'm not okay with it. Any ideas?

 

Sorry I really appreciate your help.

You SHOULDN'T be forced to take cme in the system or on your own time or with your pto. Plain and simple. You should be able to go to a conference or take an online seminar or subscribe to journals at your discretion.

 

I think asking for more esp in light of the hours Is ok, but you will need clarification. So what they give you an hour break.. Is it an actual break (doubt it)? I would be frank and ask them why the hours are 9.5 a day and how that works..Don't be afraid to try to reach out to other pas in the office too