At a crossroads... MD or PA

[HopefulFuturePA91]

I am currently 24 years old. I have been on the path to medical school, but recently have had some doubts about it and am wondering about PA school. I feel like I might be too old for medical school if I want to have kids and family at a reasonable (for me) age.

 

I went to college right after high school, but after 3 years, I took a leave of absence for personal reasons. At that point my overall GPA was a 3.3 and science GPA was a 3.0 (MD) or 2.9 (PA).

 

I am now back in school and have made 4.0s for the credit hours I have taken so far. I'm now at an overall of 3.45 and science of 3.1/2.95 (MD/PA).

 

I have two semesters left to complete my B.S. and feel that I can continue to perform at this level. Assuming I do, I will graduate in May with a 3.56 overall and 3.33/3.26 (MD/PA) science GPA.

 

So, I have a few options after I graduate:

 

For the PA route, I would take a few pre-req that will not be covered in my degree during the summer. Assuming, I continue to do well, this will give me 3.59/3.37 to apply. I would also be studying for the GRE - I recently took a practice test with no prior studying or information and got a 153Q and 154V. At the end of that summer, I would have about 1000 hours as a CNA, 400 hours volunteering (about half/half health/non-health related), and some shadowing of MD/DO and PAs.

 

I could apply in mid-August after the summer classes finish, but that seems a little late. Do PA schools do rolling admissions like medical schools - it seems like a lot of the deadlines are September 1st?

 

If I go this route, would it be better to wait to apply until 2017 for entry into 2018? What are my chances with those stats to a Texas PA school, especially interested in UTMB and Baylor for location reasons?

 

This would put me in PA school at 26 or 27 and finishing around 29 or 30. After that, I could move anywhere I want, have a decent income, and start a family.

 

The MD/DO route.

For this, I wouldn't take any summer classes, but would instead use that time to study for the MCAT. This would put me applying in 2017 with a MD/DO overall of 3.56/3.62 and science of 3.33/3.37. If I got in the first time (without an MCAT score, that is pretty hard to predict, I suppose), I would start in 2018 at 27, finish medical school at 31, and residency at a minimum of 34. 

 

From a financial standpoint, I'm not sure which one would be better. Fewer loans and less opportunity costs as a PA, but a smaller salary. I am however, perfectly okay with the median PA salary. 

 

Time seems to definitely goes to PA. I have found that there are some residencies for PAs - do people usually work as a PA for a few years and then do these if they wish to move to a new specialty or do them right out of school?

 

The stress level seems to be a lot higher going the medical school route (the applications are more costly, the MCAT seems like a harder test than the GRE, and residency, from what I have seen/heard, is more stressful than anything I can imagine. It seems like people apply to 15-20 schools minimum over at SDN, how many PA schools do people apply to on average? With my information, what would be a good number for me?

 

It really seems like logically PA school might be the best route for me. There is still something in the back of my mind saying that I should go to medical school though. 

 

I like that I can have lateral movement as a PA school which seems much more difficult to do as a MD/DO. Is it as easy as a PA as it seems to an outsider?

 

I apologize that this is incredibly long. I really appreciate any answers/suggestions/advice anyone gives to me.

[Guest Paula]

If the back of your mind is still saying medical school, then that is what you should do.  Have you considered exploring the 3 year medical school route?  I know Texas has a 3 year program for those who are interested in primary care.  I do not recall which medical school it is.  

 

The last thing that the PA profession needs is to have PAs who work for a few years and then realize they made a mistake and then go on to Medical school.  You will effectively be taking a slot of another PA student if you end up going that route.

 

Do more homework and research on the 3 year medical school programs.  You can take the MCAT now, can't you? 

[Guest Paula]

FMAT Family Medicine - Texas Tech University Health Sciences ...

 

 

Here it is.  Good luck, this might help you make a decision. 

[HopefulFuturePA91]

I can't take the MCAT yet. I will not have biochemistry finished until December, which is on the test. I won't have adequate study time for it in the Spring semester with taking a full course load, working 24ish hours, and commuting. If I decide to go the MD/DO route MCAT studying will replace school and I will continue to work part time while I study for it in the summer. 

 

I don't want to go into family medicine. One of the big reasons I am considering PA school is the lateral mobility, and family medicine doesn't lead to many (if any, other than geriatrics and sports) options. I didn't know about this program though; thank you for the information!

 

I have no doubt that whichever route I go I will stick with it. I won't put my SO through 7+ years of school/residency after already becoming a PA or taking on 200k of debt after finally getting close to paying everything off, so you don't have to worry about me being the last thing the PA profession needs.

 

I'd love anymore answers to the questions in first post!

[EMEDPA]

lateral mobility is going away in the pa profession more so every year. don't let that factor into your decision.

[EMEDPA]

FMAT Family Medicine - Texas Tech University Health Sciences ...

 

 

Here it is.  Good luck, this might help you make a decision. 

similar program at LECOM in lake erie , pa as well.

[rev ronin]

Really, in family medicine you can specialize in anything you want within the scope of family medicine--which is almost anything.  In my last job, I did a whole lot of diabetic foot care and nail surgeries.  New job?  Less women's health and pediatrics, more occupational and sleep medicine.  I also have to do more active management of my diabetic patients, since I have less support staff. It's all still outpatient medicine, but the variability from job to job is interesting.

[EMEDPA]

Really, in family medicine you can specialize in anything you want within the scope of family medicine--which is almost anything.  In my last job, I did a whole lot of diabetic foot care and nail surgeries.  New job?  Less women's health and pediatrics, more occupational and sleep medicine.  I also have to do more active management of my diabetic patients, since I have less support staff. It's all still outpatient medicine, but the variability from job to job is interesting.

agree, however you would have a hard time transitioning to critical care or CT surgery tomorrow. Hospital credentialing policies would leave you hamstrung and unable to perform any billable procedures for months, making you fairly unproductive to a new employer who would much rather hire someone with experience in those fields. physician mentors who have the time and desire to teach are becoming less common outside of a residency every year. If I wanted to transition to any surgical specialty at this point (which I don't), I would pretty much need to complete a residency program. there is lateral mobility within similar fields, but the ability to do nephrology 2 days/week and neurosurgery 2 days/week is becoming incredibly rare for most. blame the joint commission and overly sensitive hospital credentialing bodies- you need to prove you have done something to do it again. The days of "see one, do one" are dead. more than 2/3rd of my EM pa group, for example, is not credentialed to do LPs because they don't have procedure logs documenting prior mastery and no doc has the time or desire to teach them because that would detract from their own productivity. .as a new grad today, your best bet is to pick a specialty you like and do a postgrad residency in that to build yourself an impressive procedure list and comfort level.

everyone outside of medicine glorifies the difficulty of physician residencies. yes, the internship year is demanding in terms of hours. after that it's basically on the job training for which you are paid. I have worked at several facilities with fp and em residencies over the years and I am typically in the hospital more hrs/mo than the 2nd and 3rd yr residents. many md residents of both sexes have kids in residency. it's just a job with demanding requirements. many of us did those before pa school...

[HopefulFuturePA91]

Really, in family medicine you can specialize in anything you want within the scope of family medicine--which is almost anything.  In my last job, I did a whole lot of diabetic foot care and nail surgeries.  New job?  Less women's health and pediatrics, more occupational and sleep medicine.  I also have to do more active management of my diabetic patients, since I have less support staff. It's all still outpatient medicine, but the variability from job to job is interesting.

I meant I don't want to do a residency in family medicine if I go to medical school because there are fewer specialization (fellowships, for example) options, so I don't want to do one of the three year programs that lead directly to a family medicine program. Some of the things you mentioned - pediatrics for sure - would mean an entirely different residency going the medical school route.

 

That's good to know that lateral mobility shouldn't affect my decision much (if at all). I am interested in emergency medicine and critical care. I feel like those could translate into one another okay, but I could be wrong?

 

With my stats, what would be my chances at Baylor or UTMB? And would it be better to apply early without all my pre-reqs, late with them all, or wait a year and continue working/volunteering and apply early with all my pre-reqs?

[EMEDPA]

without strong prior em experience, your best bet would be to do a postgrad program in EM or critical care after PA school.

many of the best em pa jobs for folks who don't do residencies go to former paramedics and er nurses. the critical care jobs tend to go to former resp. therapists. all of my best jobs have been given to me because of my prior paramedic experience. they know based on that that I can intubate, run a code, cardiovert, etc

doing a residency would put you a step up and make you competitive in the job market.

[UGoLong]

I really don't think anyone can tell you which road to take. I would recommending talking and shadowing and then just sleep on it. You can't really go wrong if you take either road. As time goes by, the road will change and so will you. For many of us, picking a career is not a one-time decision but a periodic rite of passage.

 

Nothing you ever learn or experience is lost. Keep your eyes open and be ready when there is a bend in the road.

 

Good luck.

[HopefulFuturePA91]

without strong prior em experience, your best bet would be to do a postgrad program in EM or critical care after PA school.

many of the best em pa jobs for folks who don't do residencies go to former paramedics and er nurses. the critical care jobs tend to go to former resp. therapists. all of my best jobs have been given to me because of my prior paramedic experience. they know based on that that I can intubate, run a code, cardiovert, etc

doing a residency would put you a step up and make you competitive in the job market.

 

I would definitely be willing to do a residency! It seems most are around a year long, so that doesn't add too much time. Is that something people tend to do right after school or do you get a few years of experience first? I am in an ICU right now - I don't know how much that helps me though as a CNA.

 

I really don't think anyone can tell you which road to take. I would recommending talking and shadowing and then just sleep on it. You can't really go wrong if you take either road. As time goes by, the road will change and so will you. For many of us, picking a career is not a one-time decision but a periodic rite of passage.

 

Nothing you ever learn or experience is lost. Keep your eyes open and be ready when there is a bend in the road.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks for that. You are definitely right and I will try to keep that in mind as I make my decision!

[EMEDPA]

A RESIDENCY IS EASIEST TO DO RIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL BEFORE YOU GET USED TO A REAL SALARY, BUT CAN BE DONE AT ANY TIME. MOST ARE GOING TO THE 18 MONTH MODEL, BUT SOME 12 AND 14 MONTH PROGRAMS REMAIN. SEE THE LIST WITH LINKS TO ALL 28 EM RESIDENCIES I N THE EM FORUM HERE (woops , asorry about caps, I look at the keyboard as I type with 2 fingers....:) )

[MyNameWasUsed]

Your chances are better with PA school just because MD is more competitive.

 

I noticed you didnt mention the typical "i want to be top dog" reason to go MD which is good. I was in your situation a little over a year ago. I really had to weigh the pros and cons and it all came down to personal priorities and worth. Do you care about the ego aspect of MD vs PA? I didnt. Its just a job. What about the knowledge aspect? Money? Lifestyle? You mentioned you wanted to start a family and although that's possible and doable as a med student, it is definitely going to be a struggle.

[AliB]

Your chances are better with PA school just because MD is more competitive.

 

 

It's not my intention to hijack the OP's thread, but I don't think you can unequivocally make this assertion.  It's certainly not apples to apples, as the applicant pools likely vary significantly (and it's harder to find actual #s on how many individuals are applying to one or more PA programs), but from what I can tell, the % of applicants getting into one of the medical schools appears to be higher than the % getting into a PA program.  It seems to be more competitive for PA school than an MD program (assuming you are a qualified applicant for the path you elect)!

[HopefulFuturePA91]

The whole top-dog thing isn't a big deal to me. I think the money a PA makes is enough to satisfy my needs and wants. My SO makes a good living as well, so combined we should be in the clear. Also, apparently after 70(?) thousand a year, money doesn't add to happiness anyway. 

 

The knowledge aspect is a reason that I'm not sure about changing my path to PA. Was that an aspect that mattered to you and if so, what were the reasons you used to overcome it when you ultimately chose PA school?

[MyNameWasUsed]

The whole top-dog thing isn't a big deal to me. I think the money a PA makes is enough to satisfy my needs and wants. My SO makes a good living as well, so combined we should be in the clear. Also, apparently after 70(?) thousand a year, money doesn't add to happiness anyway. 

 

The knowledge aspect is a reason that I'm not sure about changing my path to PA. Was that an aspect that mattered to you and if so, what were the reasons you used to overcome it when you ultimately chose PA school?

 

For me, the knowledge aspect would have been the only reason to pursue MD as oppose to PA, but at the end of the day, it's all about what things are worth to you and what you value, which is why nobody else can tell you which career path to pursue. I feel that the knowledge aspect is closely related to your passion to medicine and the science that comes with medicine. I personally enjoy the science of medicine more than the patient care, however, I enjoy living my life more than either of those. I don't need my life to revolve around medicine. I have other interests that I can pursue with the income I will make as a PA. I value my life more than my potential career. So my question to you is: Is the knowledge worth the sacrifice you are going to make by going to medical school? For some people, knowledge is their one and only true passion/hobby and I respect and admire that. 

 

@alib I see the logic of that argument but MD applicants tend to have higher GPA and they also have to take the MCAT which is brutal. Also the GPAs for MD applicants should have more weight because they do have more rigorous prereqs. One would argue PAs needs thousands of hours of clinical experience/volunteering and I would say MD applicants need that too, along with research and leadership which CASPA doesn't even ask about. Several of my peers and I just graduated and some of them applied to MD schools with incredible stats but only got waitlisted/rejected. I'm pretty sure if they applied to the same amount of PA programs they would have received an acceptance. 

[sbc12]

For me, the knowledge aspect would have been the only reason to pursue MD as oppose to PA, but at the end of the day, it's all about what things are worth to you and what you value, which is why nobody else can tell you which career path to pursue. 

 

@alib I see the logic of that argument but MD applicants tend to have higher GPA and they also have to take the MCAT which is brutal. Also the GPAs for MD applicants should have more weight because they do have more rigorous prereqs. One would argue PAs needs thousands of hours of clinical experience/volunteering and I would say MD applicants need that too, along with research and leadership which CASPA doesn't even ask about. Several of my peers and I just graduated and some of them applied to MD schools with incredible stats but only got waitlisted/rejected. I'm pretty sure if they applied to the same amount of PA programs they would have received an acceptance. 

 

Two things here.

 

1) PAs can be just as knowledgeable as MDs. To think that a PA is less knowledgeable than an MD is a ridiculous assumption. A provider continues to learn throughout practice.

 

2) How is it that pre-MD students have "more rigorous prereqs" I considered MD as well and the only class that they had to take that I didn't was Physics. There are also some PA schools that require Physics, so really the difference comes down to which profession is best for you and if you have to take the MCAT or not. I agree that the MCAT is brutal, but you are heavily misinformed if you think there is a significant difference between pre-PA and pre-MD. And how can you say that you are "pretty" sure that your friends would most def had been accepted to PA schools if they were to apply after being rejected from MD schools. Have them apply to PA school and see if they get in and if they do, then you can try and make some type of comparison. But still it would be a difficult task because it's not just about GPA. 

 

Although they are similar, PA school and MD school are different. Admissions committees look for slightly different things between the two. PA school isn't for MD rejects it is for those who want to be PAs. 

[MyNameWasUsed]

^

 

1. I disagree. In general MDs are more knowledgeable.

 

2. Ochem is required as well along with a few others that aren't required by PA. Some PA schools require ochem but I think most dont. I am pretty sure because I got accepted and waitlisted to PAs schools and they have better stats than me. Could I be wrong? Of course but based on the data I have that is my conclusion and I think it's fair.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere. Is dental school more competitve than MD? What about pharmacy? Or optometry? Saying these programs are all different and can't be compared might be true but that doesnt get us anywhere. How would you rank the competitiveness of all these health related programs?

[PS_editor]

It doesn't matter which is more competitive. You should go into a profession because it suits you, not based on how competitive it is.

[HopefulFuturePA91]

For me, the knowledge aspect would have been the only reason to pursue MD as oppose to PA, but at the end of the day, it's all about what things are worth to you and what you value, which is why nobody else can tell you which career path to pursue. I feel that the knowledge aspect is closely related to your passion to medicine and the science that comes with medicine. I personally enjoy the science of medicine more than the patient care, however, I enjoy living my life more than either of those. I don't need my life to revolve around medicine. I have other interests that I can pursue with the income I will make as a PA. I value my life more than my potential career. So my question to you is: Is the knowledge worth the sacrifice you are going to make by going to medical school? For some people, knowledge is their one and only true passion/hobby and I respect and admire that. 

 

 

This was very helpful. I think that's what I knew I needed to do, but seeing it from another person really helped. Thanks!

 

Alright guys, I didn't ask which one would be more competitive to get into. I agree that it doesn't matter in terms of choosing which one to go into. I just asked if I had a decent chance of getting into a Texas school and then more specifically UTMB or Baylor. And how many schools I should be applying to if I choose the PA route based on my information. I never even asked about my chances at MD school or to compare my chances between the two.

[sbc12]

^

 

1. I disagree. In general MDs are more knowledgeable.

 

2. Ochem is required as well along with a few others that aren't required by PA. Some PA schools require ochem but I think most dont. I am pretty sure because I got accepted and waitlisted to PAs schools and they have better stats than me. Could I be wrong? Of course but based on the data I have that is my conclusion and I think it's fair.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere. Is dental school more competitve than MD? What about pharmacy? Or optometry? Saying these programs are all different and can't be compared might be true but that doesnt get us anywhere. How would you rank the competitiveness of all these health related programs?

 

Every single school I applied to had these prereqs

 

1. Biology 1 w/lab

2. Biology 2 w/lab

3. Gen chem 1

4. Gen chem 2

5. O chem 1

6. O chem 2

7. Biochem

8. anat and phys 1

9. anat and phys 2

10. Biostats

11. Psychology

 

and then there are some schools that also require Genetics and Microbiology

 

You are going off a lot of "i thinks" 

 

How many schools did you look at? It doesn't sound like many - since you think only some require ochem. 

[MyNameWasUsed]

Lol it appears we have gotten off topic. Anyways good luck OP on your endeavors, let us know what you end up deciding.