CASPA, Cumulative GPA & National Accreditation

[PACC]

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[cop to pa]

Yeah, I got my AA in 1996 with a 2.27 GPA. It's killing my cGPA with CASPA. But that's not their fault, the grades are what I earned. To be blunt, you're doing a lot of blaming of others (the school gave too many credits, CASPA shouldn't count it/ their policy isn't fair) for your grades.

 

Keep working at the coursework and consider schools with lower GPA requirements. If you know your GPA is below their threshold then save the money in applying there. If you have the Bachelor's already, get some more science classes under your belt, maybe at a CC.  It would not only bring up the cGPA but the sGPA if you do well and can help give you a better foundation for when you get into PA school.

[t_pac]

CASPA requires you to list ALL of the institutions you have attended that granted you college-level credit:

 

REPORT ALL INSTITUTIONS you have received college-level credit from, including post baccalaureate, graduate, and professional institutions even if the courses are not required for admission or are listed as transfer credit on the transcript of another institution. Include non-degree programs (e.g., summer school), foreign institutions, and any colleges which granted you credit for a course you completed as a high school student even if it was taken at your high school.

 

So, unless your "tech college" school was a vocational school, I would include all the courses in my application. Your best bet is to keep taking coursework to get your GPA up to a 3.0. Once you get past the minimum GPA filter they will most likely be impressed by your improvement.

 

Good luck!

 

What do the other parts of your application look like?... HCE, community service, etc?

[Allegro]

It's pretty well-known that CASPA counts pretty much everything in their GPA, as the PA schools require them to do. The only things CASPA states it does not include in its GPA is work taken during active military service (not military schools, those count too) and courses taken at hospitals. Both of these are considered "professional" courses, but everything taken at a school - any school - is considered academic. I had a classmate who had to report his SCUBA course and send a transcript.

 

The fact that nothing on their site states anything about accrediation - national or otherwise - only backs up their argument that everything counts. It sounds to me like you made an assumption regarding your school, and are upset that that assumption turned out to be incorrect. Since it sounds like you have a strong application otherwise, I suggest focusing on programs who have a lower GPA threshold for their pre-req or who place more emphasis on the more recent 60-70 hours.

 

From CASPA FAQ:

 

https://portal.caspaonline.org/caspaHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/processing-your-application/grade-point-average-gpa-calculations/index.html

 

Q: What types of courses ARE NOT included in my GPA at all?

A: Professional and foreign coursework will not be included in the GPAs. In addition, any course in which a grade of withdrawal (passing), pass/no-pass, audit, incomplete, exempted or not yet enrolled is indicated will not be included in the GPAs.

[PACC]

Yeah, I got my AA in 1996 with a 2.27 GPA. It's killing my cGPA with CASPA. But that's not their fault, the grades are what I earned. To be blunt, you're doing a lot of blaming of others (the school gave too many credits, CASPA shouldn't count it/ their policy isn't fair) for your grades.

 

Keep working at the coursework and consider schools with lower GPA requirements. If you know your GPA is below their threshold then save the money in applying there. If you have the Bachelor's already, get some more science classes under your belt, maybe at a CC.  It would not only bring up the cGPA but the sGPA if you do well and can help give you a better foundation for when you get into PA school.

You're being unnecessarily confrontational. I'm aware my grades were bad, however, grades were not the focal point of my previous field, creating a portfolio was. It was mentioned by our professors the first day of classes, "Just pass your courses, and work on your portfolio content". I did well afterwards, took an internship, received some job offers but eventually moved to a field I was more passionate about. You received an A.A, which is quite different; that is a degree from a regionally accredited university of which you likely have substantially less than 113 credit hours. To put this into perspective, the average Bachelor's degree only requires 120 credit hours. Your situation is not the same as mine, and your advice of raising my GPA was thoroughly explained in the original post. I posted this because I am looking for suggestions, of which I appreciate, however, I feel as if you replied with the goal of patronizing me rather than understanding my situation. I'm attempting to raise my GPA, but I'm in debt and there is a significant financial investment, as I'm over my hours and the weighting of credit hours make it almost impossible to budge my GPA. Even if I raise my GPA to a 3.0 there is still a good chance adcoms will auto-filter my application next year. The field is competitive.

 

Also, I want to make it clear, I'm not looking to blame anyone, I just want to be considered for a school based on merit, not courses labeled, "Visual Effects", or "Computer Animation Project", which are individually 8 credit hour courses. I've worked hard, I've taken way beyond the pre-requisite courseload required for P.A schools and my science GPA is a 3.85, and my overall university GPA is a 3.9. But I'm still being dragged down, and I don't know if I can legitimately claw myself out of this sinkhole.

[PACC]

It's pretty well-known that CASPA counts pretty much everything in their GPA, as the PA schools require them to do. The only things CASPA states it does not include in its GPA is work taken during active military service (not military schools, those count too) and courses taken at hospitals. Both of these are considered "professional" courses, but everything taken at a school - any school - is considered academic. I had a classmate who had to report his SCUBA course and send a transcript.

 

The fact that nothing on their site states anything about accrediation - national or otherwise - only backs up their argument that everything counts. It sounds to me like you made an assumption regarding your school, and are upset that that assumption turned out to be incorrect. Since it sounds like you have a strong application otherwise, I suggest focusing on programs who have a lower GPA threshold for their pre-req or who place more emphasis on the more recent 60-70 hours.

 

From CASPA FAQ:

 

https://portal.caspaonline.org/caspaHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/processing-your-application/grade-point-average-gpa-calculations/index.html

 

Q: What types of courses ARE NOT included in my GPA at all?

A: Professional and foreign coursework will not be included in the GPAs. In addition, any course in which a grade of withdrawal (passing), pass/no-pass, audit, incomplete, exempted or not yet enrolled is indicated will not be included in the GPAs.

 

There are quite a few areas that mention accreditation, but the calculations are somewhat vague.

 

 

 

 

 

[cop to pa]

You feel I'm being unnecessarily confrontational, and I may very well be.  However, you first addressed this same topic on August 19th.  You have received the exact same answers.

 

You stated you also have an Associates degree.  I have well over a hundred credits (130+) as you do and my cGPA is below 3.0 as is yours.  We are in very similar situations.  It sucks and I acknowledge that.  However, you seem to be seeking a way to skirt the system because you dislike it and/or find it unfair.  There are dozens of posts on this forum about people who earned a lackluster GPA in their late teens/ early twenties and now, a decade plus later, are trying to get themselves on track.

 

There are a couple of things that CASPA does I don't personally like.  But at least they are fair and equitable across the board to all applicants.  What you are seeking is a loophole that would give you an extra advantage because you think your school should be an exception: you're looking for a cheat.  I dislike that.  It's an open internet forum where you are soliciting responses.  You will probably not like them all, but that's the internet.

 

Now, it sounds like you've been doing really well since then, and kudos for that.  Seriously,  It's a tough climb and there are zero shortcuts.  You mentioned that you feel the CASPA calculations are somewhat vague.  I made an Excel spreadsheet for calculating cGPA and sGPA.  I've shared it with my University's future-PA club and it seems to be fairly accurate.  If you'd like a copy, let me know.

[PACC]

You feel I'm being unnecessarily confrontational, and I may very well be.  However, you first addressed this same topic on August 19th.  You have received the exact same answers.

 

You stated you also have an Associates degree.  I have well over a hundred credits (130+) as you do and my cGPA is below 3.0 as is yours.  We are in very similar situations.  It sucks and I acknowledge that.  However, you seem to be seeking a way to skirt the system because you dislike it and/or find it unfair.  There are dozens of posts on this forum about people who earned a lackluster GPA in their late teens/ early twenties and now, a decade plus later, are trying to get themselves on track.

 

There are a couple of things that CASPA does I don't personally like.  But at least they are fair and equitable across the board to all applicants.  What you are seeking is a loophole that would give you an extra advantage because you think your school should be an exception: you're looking for a cheat.  I dislike that.  It's an open internet forum where you are soliciting responses.  You will probably not like them all, but that's the internet.

 

Now, it sounds like you've been doing really well since then, and kudos for that.  Seriously,  It's a tough climb and there are zero shortcuts.  You mentioned that you feel the CASPA calculations are somewhat vague.  I made an Excel spreadsheet for calculating cGPA and sGPA.  I've shared it with my University's future-PA club and it seems to be fairly accurate.  If you'd like a copy, let me know.

 

I made that post a while back, and thought no one had seen it; I went back yesterday and found several helpful responses. Didn't realize this until I posted the new topic, my mistake. There is no way you have 130+ credits in your A.A degree, it doesn't make any sense. You are likely saying you have 130+ credits alltogether, well, I have 242+ credits alltogether. It is not the same thing, my cGPA is practically immune to A's, I've calculted it. I also have an A.S degree from a private profit churning school with very low graduation rates, and very few on time graduates. Most everyone's grades were extremely low, or they failed out entirely. I didn't go to a standard university. As a teenager I wasn't very critical, and I blindly went into the school due to promotional appeal. My parents hadn't attended college and none of us knew any better. Regardless, I made the best of the situation, worked hard, and obtained several opportunities after school. I understand people are in similar situations, perhaps even worse, however, I am not looking for a cheat; I legitimately believe that these courses qualify as professional coursework as per CASPA policy. If they are not, then I'm stating the CASPA policy is unclear about this distinction, and perhaps even misleading.

 

 

[Allegro]

The screenshots you related above must be very out of date; CASPA hasn't considered doctorate work to be professional for several years. That question about accrediation isn't even on their FAQ any longer. This is their current FAQ:

https://portal.caspaonline.org/caspaHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/

 

They are pretty clear that only work taken during military service or work done at a hospital is considered professional. Their other levels are clearly explained as well. The only work where they mention accredidation making any difference is with military work:

https://portal.caspaonline.org/caspaHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/academic-history/coursework/index.html

 

FRESHMAN-SENIOR: All college level courses taken prior to your first bachelor’s degree. CASPA does not monitor credit levels in regards to freshman-senior designations. In general, four year students list one year per designation and five-year students list their last two years as senior. Non-traditional students label their terms as evenly as possible, but should remain in chronological order (i.e. do not report yourself as a junior in 1999 and as a freshman in 2000).

 

POST-BACCALAUREATE:  Undergraduate level courses taken after your first bachelor’s degree is earned. If you earned a second bachelor’s degree, your entire second degree would be considered “post-baccalaureate.”

 

GRADUATE: Master’s degree-level work only. You do not need to have earned the degree in order for your work to be Master’s degree level.

 

DOCTORATE: doctoral degree-level work such as that taken in pursuit of a Ph.D, MD, PharmD, JD, JurisD, LL.D, DC, etc. You do not need to have earned the degree in order for your work to be Doctorate degree level. Doctorate level work is included in a “Doctorate” GPA but does not factor into the rest of your GPA calculations.

 

PROFESSIONAL: military coursework NOT taken at a regionally accredited institution (regionally accredited military schools include Community College of the Air Force or West Point) AND, all coursework NOT taken at a college or university (such as at a hospital or medical center). Professional coursework is not calculated into your GPA but is visible by the programs and used as part of their evaluation of your application.

 

Their GPA is pretty clear on how they calculate it on their how your GPA is calculated instructions:

https://portal.caspaonline.org/caspaHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/processing-your-application/grade-point-average-gpa-calculations/index.html It doesn't mention anything regarding accrediation being a factor in the GPA calculation.

 

I sympathize with how difficult climbing out of a GPA hole is, I just don't buy the CASPA excuse that they somehow misled you here. I restate my previous advice on focusing on schools which care more about your recent achievement.

 

[oval_97]

There are a couple of things that CASPA does I don't personally like.  But at least they are fair and equitable across the board to all applicants.  What you are seeking is a loophole that would give you an extra advantage because you think your school should be an exception: you're looking for a cheat.  I dislike that.  It's an open internet forum where you are soliciting responses.  You will probably not like them all, but that's the internet.

 

Applying the same standard to everyone does not make a rule or system fair or equitable. It simply makes that rule uniform.  I'll give you an example from my transcript.  I graduated in 2002 and on my transcript form 1996 I have a WF for a math course that I late dropped.  CASPA tells me this is an F.  Naturally I'm not happy about this.  Uniform?  Sure.  Fair? Absolutely not.  Here's why:  

 

At my university the decision to mark the transcript as WF or WN (no grade) is arbitrary, one that was left up to the mood of the professor. To the professor and university, marking my transcript with WF was inconsequential--it made no difference to my GPA, and I doubt the professor would have done it if she had known there would be consequences for me 14 years down the road.  

 

There are many institutions that would simply mark the course as a late drop or withdraw and not WF.  In fact even at the institution I graduated from, since 2010 all late dropped courses are simply marked W or WN.  

 

Since it's at the discretion of the professor, someone taking the same class at my university, dropping on the same day with the same grade could theoretically have done so with no CASPA GPA impact.  Someone at the different university that doesn't use WF could do the same, as well as someone enrolled at my same university 8 years later.  

 

How is that fair?  It's not.  It's a simple as that.  

[Allegro]

Perhaps, but it sounds to me like your school was being unfair, not the rule. Think about it this way;  if CASPA wasn't involved in the process and you sent that transcript to PA schools directly with a big WF on it, the schools would not come looking for an explanation for why you have this particular mark or if it went into the GPA, they'd mark it as an F themselves and move on. They wouldn't bother following up as to the unusual rules at your particular school, guarenteed.

 

It is inequitable for your school to arbitraily give out WFs. If I were you, I would pettition the school to have this corrected if it is indeed the equivilent of a passing withdraw.

[oval_97]

Perhaps, but it sounds to me like your school was being unfair, not the rule. Think about it this way;  if CASPA wasn't involved in the process and you sent that transcript to PA schools directly with a big WF on it, the schools would not come looking for an explanation for why you have this particular mark or if it went into the GPA, they'd mark it as an F themselves and move on. They wouldn't bother following up as to the unusual rules at your particular school, guarenteed.

 

It is inequitable for your school to arbitraily give out WFs. If I were you, I would pettition the school to have this corrected if it is indeed the equivilent of a passing withdraw.

 

 

Now that I've learned about the way CASPA handles WF in GPA calculations I've contacted a friend in the registrars office and she's looking into whether I can retroactively change that WF to just a W or WN as that's the only way the university now records them.  Still, the fact that the university allowed the professor the leeway to decide whether the course would be recorded as WN or WF, while unfortunate, is just one component and somewhat specific and limited to my case.  I don't expect CASPA to consider every contingency and idiosyncrasy such as that. 

 

The larger issue is that some universities (including, now, my alma mater) record late drops as a W or possibly something else on the transcript. Simply by virtue of what university you attended your GPA can be significantly affected. A uniform rule is only fair if all universities report and record uniformly,  which as we've established they don't (even from year to year).  

 

CASPA should treat all late dropped courses the same since universities don't have a standardized method of reporting late-drops/withdrawals. Ideally they should exempt them from the GPA calculation and allow the adcom to decide how to handle them. This is essentially what happens now except that someone with identical academic performance could potentially never make it that far because of GPA screening based on CASPAs own blend of GPA calculation.   

 

It's not the end of the world for me,  it dropped my cGPA by .1 point.  It doesn't average in well with my 3 other math courses, dropping what would have been a 3.48 to a 2.5 though.  I was 18 at the time,  exactly half a lifetime ago for me,  so it doesn't reflect poorly on who I am as a person or student now (nor do the 12 credits of 4.0 I'm currently rocking this semester in Bio, A&P, Stat, etc).I can easily explain it away and demonstrate that I'm no longer that kid, but because of CASPA I might not even get that chance.  Had I gone to another school or graduated 4 years ago instead of 14, I'd have that 3.48.  Fair?  I don't think so.  

[Suzy M]

I have also stated my concerns with CASPA and how unfairly they calculate GPA.  There are people now that have 2 bachelor's degrees and they are not even submitting their transcripts from the first university they attended for their first Bachelor's degree.  CASPA does not calculate the grades fairly.  If my transcript from a university says I have one GPA, then who is CASPA to argue that by giving me a much lower GPA because of classes taken 10 years ago?  I wish someone would come up with another system, other than CASPA and have a new system be used nationally.