Anatomy standards of PA programs.

[db_pavnp]

I am curious if PA programs have minimum anatomy standards to which they adhere to and what those standards are.  Do the vast majority of programs cover the same topics and what are they?

[JP86]

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for here. Most programs will hit Anatomy and Physiology first as everything else you learn will be building up from here. It is very thorough and is the one class other than medical terminology where everything is practically straight memorization, which is kind of nice I guess. My program tried something different that was aimed at both teaching anatomy, but also to aid us with reading radiology studies (most specifically CT and MRI) where they taught cross-sectional anatomy. I don't know if they are still doing it and I don't believe it helped an ounce, but is hard for me to judge since I had already taken a cadaver course previously in undergrad.

 

As for what they cover...well, pretty much what you'd expect. All of the major muscles, nerves, arteries, veins, glands, and then very detailed physiology of all organ systems. I had taken advanced A&P in undergrad and quickly realized that while difficult, they just skimmed the surface in that class.

[db_pavnp]

Thank-you for the response.  I should have been more clear to garner more responses, but I also try to keep it short to avoid confusing the issue.

 

I have a lot of time to study at work and have been preparing for eventual acceptance to an NP or PA program.  I have targeted three subjects for study: pathology, pharmacology, and anatomy.  I am using Pathoma for pathology, have used Katzung and Trevor Clinical Pharm with study guide for pharm, and am searching for a good syllabus or guide for advanced anatomy.  The anatomy requirements of PA programs seemed like a good place to start.

[Dynamo24]

In my program our anatomy course is 9 semester hours. In that 9 hours embryo and neuro are included. We also do radio stuff. I would say nothing could prepare you for the rigor of the course. Simply because it's crammed on top of another 10-12 hours of classes. I would say use your current study time to get your brain limber. The stress /volume of information is hard to duplicate outside of being in the program. I think that is the hardest part more so than the material itself.

[Guest MedLib42]

While I think accreditation standards that programs have to meet do dictate content to a certain extent, I'm also pretty sure each school has a bit of leeway with regard to level of detail - I only spent a short time on a very few origin/insertion/actions, while friends at other schools spent weeks memorizing long lists of them. However, I spent much more time on certain nerves and blood vessels. And unlike the above poster, our anatomy was only 5 hours and while we did a ton of neuro, we didn't do any radiology stuff.

 

I also wouldn't recommend studying pathology. While the term implies study of human disease process, in the strictest sense, a pathology class actually focuses on the laboratory aspect (analysis of blood, tissue, and other specimens in a clinical lab setting) of diagnosis. So it's typically not offered as part of a PA program, although you might find a couple programs that teach a version of it. It's seen more in pathologist programs or perhaps med school. PA programs tend to teach pathophysiology, which is the physiology of disease and helps go along with medicine in terms of diagnosis and treatment, so I'd recommend looking for a pathophysiology, rather than pathology, text, unless you know for sure that the programs you're looking at do teach pathology as part of their curriculum.

[db_pavnp]

More googling does seem to reveal that PA programs do not have a standardized anatomy curriculum.  A smart way forward is probably to tailor studying according to the program one decides to attend if you can get a bit of head's up regarding the focus of their anatomy curriculum.

 

I appreciate the comments regarding pathology vs pathophysiology.  I am under the impression that Pathoma is a reasonable bridge between the two concepts as an abbreviated, USMLE based pathology review.  It does strike me as plausible that any given pathology course could imaginably be focused entirely on molecular cell bio and biopsy histology with limited pertinence towards a PA program.  Pathoma feels focused on providing a mechanistic definition of any given disease from which signs and symptoms can be intuitively deduced.

[primadonna22274]

I loved Pathoma and used it for step 1 review and for MS2 material with each system. I suggested it to a couple of my PA student friends to supplement their learning. IMO it's wayyyyy deeper pathophys than you will be tested on in PA school or on PANCE/PANRE but that won't hurt you to be over-prepared. These kinds of resources didn't exist when I was in PA school 15-16 yr ago...times were simpler then lol.

If you really have that much time to study at work, once you finish Pathoma move on to Virtual Body. Not a cheap subscription but an impressive resource nonetheless.

[Lexapro]

Pathoma rocks. I'm an NP student, but I (and many other students) used it to supplement my pathophys knowledge.

[db_pavnp]

Could I get a link to the proper Virtual Body?  I don't want to end up on the wrong website.

[primadonna22274]

Don't remember...google

[whoRyou]

When in doubt (in anything) make Google your best friend 

[db_pavnp]

I did Google it and Virtual Body is a website for children, hence the request.  For a subscription service, I feel asking for clarification is a reasonable request.

[primadonna22274]

Oopsie... Visible Body...it's been a while ☺️

http://www.visiblebody.com/index.html

[db_pavnp]

Is anyone willing to make a simple statement as to the major anatomy topics covered in the average PA / NP program?  I am currently feeling that by far the major topic is the nervous system.

[primadonna22274]

Musculoskeletal. Chest. Abdomen. Pelvis. Nervous system (not much Neuroanatomy but autonomics etc.) vascular. Much less ENT in my program (we ran out of time and did this last...granted this was 15 yr ago).

[EMEDPA]

Musculoskeletal. Chest. Abdomen. Pelvis. Nervous system (not much Neuroanatomy but autonomics etc.) vascular. Much less ENT in my program (we ran out of time and did this last...granted this was 15 yr ago).

good summary. we actually had significant neuroanatomy and endocrine as well.

[db_pavnp]

For what it's worth if anyone encounters this thread on search, I have decided to run Netter's flashcards for several reasons.  They have an online component with a decent self-testing interface.  They appear to be an appropriate mix of detail and simplicity that should be widely pertinent (they are not an atlas, they are a learning resource).  They have clinical factoids and anecdotes associated with each card which would typically require a second resource to dig through.  A management project.

[Corpsman2PA]

Is anyone willing to make a simple statement as to the major anatomy topics covered in the average PA / NP program? I am currently feeling that by far the major topic is the nervous system.

Ours had (as many do) A&P as a prerequisite.

From there, they started us right after acceptance with an online A&P "refresher" which was essentially a chapter per week out of those giant A&P books, with quizzes after each section, etc. Once on campus, we again, went through an intensive physiology review with tests. Then 4 weeks of basic sciences (micro, genetics, etc) before settling into pathophys and what not.

 

I would say worry less about anatomy and more about physiology. You will continuously be reviewing anatomy during school, whether it's X-rays, CT, MRI, physical exam, etc.

 

Knowing how the pituitary functions will get you a little further than just knowing that it lies in the sella turcica.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[db_pavnp]

Very interesting, thank-you for offering this information.

 

Once again, it sounds like different programs have wildly different expectations for anatomy.  I would think that such disparity would make certain programs more or less attractive to applicants depending on their personal goals.

 

The Netter flashcards seem like a minor adjunct to undergrad A&P, though, and I'll probably just throw in innervations.  It feels like a relatively high yield product.

[db_pavnp]

If anyone sees this again, I would like a good pathophysiology text recommendation.

[primadonna22274]

Big Robbins is the standard pathology text. Goljan Rapid Review Pathology is very good.

For my money, though, I recommend you purchase a 15-month (or longer) subscription to Pathoma and go through the videos while annotating the text. Do it again for each system block. Review again before PANCE and you will be in very good shape.

[primadonna22274]

Www.pathoma.com

[db_pavnp]

Gotcha.  So you feel between pathophys made ridic simple and pathoma, I am more than sufficiently covered.  As in, no specific "pathophys" necessary.

[Guest MedLib42]

If anyone sees this again, I would like a good pathophysiology text recommendation.

 

We used Pathophysiology of Disease: An Introduction to Clinical Medicine (Lange) along with the Guyton & Hall Medical Physiology text. Our physiology and pathophysiology was combined into one class. Most of us (myself included) went back and forth between these two texts (although Guyton & Hall alone has a ton of high-yield pathophysiology along with the physio). I definitely skipped some sections of the Lange book, as it got unnecessarily detailed, but the book was still needed for much of the class. Some of us also really liked Pathophysiology Made Ridiculously Simple, as it had a lot of high-yield material, but wasn't detailed enough to use as a standalone for my program. On the other hand, some students said they tried Pathoma but it was too detailed/too far off from what we were expected to know and in what sequence (although it sounds like it might be helpful for some schools curriculums), and said they had better luck using the PANCE question banks as a supplement to our pathophys and internal medicine classes instead (Lange, Davis, etc).

[primadonna22274]

It's true that Pathoma is more than what you need to know for PA school and PANCE. It's written as a refresher and prep for USMLE. However, if you want to be one of those GREAT PAs who understands pathophys in detail to shine on rotations and provide comprehensive care for your patients, I highly recommend it.