DPAM Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I really don't get the nursing association as they have allowed so many nursing programs to open up to the point that there are so many areas where there is oversaturation. And they are doing the same thing with nurse practitioners. There are so many nurse practitioner programs. So my question would be, do you guys think that there will be an over-saturation of advanced providers esp. like the Midwest (Illinois, Michigan, et) in like primary care and/or emergency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2014 Doubt it. with all the new folks getting insurance and the baby boomers retiring there will be plenty of pts to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicalRN Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I really don't get the nursing association as they have allowed so many nursing programs to open up to the point that there are so many areas where there is oversaturation. And they are doing the same thing with nurse practitioners. There are so many nurse practitioner programs. So my question would be, do you guys think that there will be an over-saturation of advanced providers esp. like the Midwest (Illinois, Michigan, et) in like primary care and/or emergency?I think the nursing associations only care about high numbers so they can continue to hold power and collect dues. They have done a horrible job protecting current nurses and NPs by allowing thousands of programs to open. It's also happening on the NP level, and they are allowing any school that wants to begin a program accreditation. The number of programs has gone from 100 to like 800 in a decade, and they even allowed a number of online only for profit programs like U Phoenix to start programs. I do worry about over saturation as people follow the mid level goldrush. Everyone I know is either in PA or NP school, and as they continue to open new programs and increase enrollment at current programs, there is no way the market can accommodate 10-20,000 new midlevels graduating every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2014 my understanding is that around 50% of current NPs practice as RNs and not as adv. practice providers as they found better deals using their rn credentials, so although there are a lot of NPs on paper, many of them are not actually working as providers but as RNs or nursing school faculty. several RNs I work with at different ERs completed their NP certs but never used them or only do volunteer work with them to keep the credential active and their skills intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm7 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 my understanding is that around 50% of current NPs practice as RNs and not as adv. practice providers as they found better deals using their rn credentials, so although there are a lot of NPs on paper, many of them are not actually working as providers but as RNs or nursing school faculty. several RNs I work with at different ERs completed their NP certs but never used them or only do volunteer work with them to keep the credential active and their skills intact. This is news to me (still in school, haven't known enough NPs to be aware of this). What is it about RN deals that make them more appealing than NP deals for some nurses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2014 This is news to me (still in school, haven't known enough NPs to be aware of this). What is it about RN deals that make them more appealing than NP deals for some nurses? at some places the top of the rn pay scale is higher than the bottom of the np scale so it doesn't make sense to quit a job that pays 45/hr for one that pays 40/hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 There is no visible end in sight for the demand for PAs in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I can imagine one reason - the bigger the employment pool, the more likely you can sniff out positions which meet your specific needs. For example, if you really want to work double shift weekends and have a stable prn gig on Mondays and Tuesdays, you are simply more likely to find it in a large field like nursing. In my much smaller clinical field, I have no such flexibility and am, sadly, quite violently discouraged from additional prn or pt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2014 . In my much smaller clinical field, I have no such flexibility and am, sadly, quite violently discouraged from additional prn or pt work. that's really not fair. the rule at my place is that you have to give availability for 5 more days than the # of shifts requested so I typically give 15 days availability for 10 shifts and then have 1/2 the month available for other jobs. I have 1 full time, 1 part time, and 1 per diem job. typically do 10 at primary job, 3 at part time job, and 1-3 at per diem job. all 12 or 24 hr shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Many of the models predicting PA demand do not take into account how healthcare utilization may change. Also do not take into account changes in other professions ... large number of NP program growth, change in the way MDs may access a primary care residency. New medical schools as well and increased enrollment. The baby boomers are ONE generation .... what happens in 20 years ? The average 28 year old PA student is looking for a career that will span 30-40 years. I also do not feel anyone understands how the PA profession is growing. I am on faculty somewhere where the program will have increased in size 125% in 5 years. It seems this is not an uncommon trend. Between the new programs and increased enrollment it feels as if this profession is doubling. I do not understand how the healthcare system could possible need such a large influx of providers. I will be the first to admit that I am not a workforce scholar or analyst ... but nether is anyone on this board (except physasst). Hopefully the AAPA or PAFT are thinking on these issues. The lower quality PAs being produced may influence PA hiring practice as well. I have no data to support this but there is NO WAY these small colleges can provide an adequate clinical education especially preceptorship when major medical and PA schools are having trouble. Things can disrupt prediction and workforce theory ... look at the ride of urgent care centers. Quick walk in clinics all over major cities who have taken a piece of pediatric and primary care practice. My practice has felt this shift and many others in NYC agree. How will this rapid non apt based commercialized system influence health workforce issues ? Just one of many ideas that people are not looking at when they talk about PA profession booming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2014 Other issues play into this as well. if you have lots of docs but few in primary care then it doesn't really matter that we have a gajillion dermatologists and cardiologists if there are very few fp docs. obviously there will also be attrition in the pa/np professions for all the normal reasons as well; retirement, folks leaving clinical practice to teach or for admin reasons. also as the pa/np fields get international practice rights some % of folks will opt to work outside the U.S. ( a small % to be sure). I don't think we should minimize the effect of the ACA on the pt pool either. last month we had our busiest January EVER on record due to an influx of newly insured pts. If this keeps up we will have to add providers to every shift to meet the demand. our #s were consistently 25% higher every day than as far back as our facility keeps records. patients are also living longer, so will need health care services for more years than their grandparents did. people are also getting fatter, so there will be more dm/htn/cad/ortho issues, etc. global warming will bring back many diseases to the u.s. which we had previously eliminated such as malaria and dengue. these carry a significant burden of morbidity and mortality. I don't think anyone in healthcare will be without a job anytime soon, certainly not for the next 30-40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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