SocialMedicine Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have been involved in this conversation for the past 2-3 weeks. A large number of PAs are upset that Ben Carson is speaking at our conference given recent anti Gay comments. A number of popular news programs, including CNN and huffington post, have covered some of this conversation. More and more I am moving into the camp where Dr. Carson should be removed from his role as a feature speaker at this years AAPA conference. He has the right to opinion and freedom of speech .... but our organization has a right to stand for something and I believe anti discrimination is one of them. I respect both sides of this conversation and think this will be an interesting argument as it unfolds. You can read about this further here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-anderson/its-a-no-brainer-dont-give-a-platform-to-dr-benjamin-carsons-anti-gay-rhetoric_b_3055858.html This is written by a very smart and dedicated PA names Jim Anderson. It also contains a link to a petition signed by over a thousand individuals to have him removed as speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2305 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 He's a great American, but not a leftist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 A man of faith and principles, world renown surgeon, the product of the American dream who some people don't agree with............. Yes the open minded and "Liberal" elements of society are so accepting and tolerant of views that differ from theirs. I would love to meet this man and shake his hand, he IS the role model every Black child in this nation should seek to emulate. I recall his visit to New Haven as a member of Yale University's Board, him telling a group of young Black children that thier dancing skills were very good but they should put as much effort into learning math and science. I pray he doesn't wilt from his stance under the withering assault by the forces of "Political Correctness". Forces & people which have no problem with young Black people raised in Doctor Carson's early life's circumstance ,failing to advance in our society and maintaining the dependent underclass! I reject the assertion that this profession's mission or role was created to repair or reset social injustices. I am more than a little distrubed by PA who espouse that MY profession is some sort of social crusade and that my and other PAs or health care professionals veiws and actions are subject to THEIR litmus test of ugh, "social justice"! Those of us who have labled their efforts or practice as a altruistic endevor , I tip my hat to you, but do not try and add others to that path without their consent.The idea that Doctor Carson has betrayed anyone or any profession is narsisisstic tripe. There is no requirement that anyone be slave to the views of anyone else or be deemed unworthy of speaking their mind. I dare say that those who question Dr. Carson's fitness to address this organization are in my opinion ,YES OPINION unfit to speak for me and I suspect many other PAs. Oh yes and have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FfIghter23 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 So your problem isn't with Dr. Carson (since he has the right to free speech in this country and you admitted he has the liberty to have an opinion), but with the AAPA? So why keep supporting the AAPA? I think they will get the message when over a thousand people decide to revoke their membership or not show up to the conference. It is hard to promote change with a simple Internet petition and yet at the same time dish out dues and conference fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 despite not entirely agreeing I will be the first to say CA Adams makes a good point. I am not as leftist as I come off and frequently agree with your comments. I will say that research into the social determinants of health has created an interesting position for us in medicine and public health. I agree that medicine should stick to medicine .... however, has medicine evolved into something that comments on how we discriminate against members of the community? We know how stress and racism bring on elevated cortisol levels and lead to increased cardiovascular disease. We have too many similar models and areas of research to count. How is this influencing the way out professional organizations must address the health of the nation? FFighter: I do not feel the answer to any disagreement with an organization is to back out. I am a big supporter of the AAPA and have served on a number of committees and leadership roles. I will continue to be a member and attend this years conference whenever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 If he or any other keynote speaker were to defame any other group, be it race-related, disability-related, etc., he would not be speaking. Why should it be any different for LGBT? We have LGBT patients and members and to compare them to pedophiles and those who harm and have sex with animals is disgusting, vile, and down-right ignorant on every level. Why would anyone want to be a part of a national organization who states that they embody diversity and equality for all and then do not stand by that when it comes to choosing speakers and PAragon award recipients. I'm for free speech for anyone, be they right or left or anywhere in between, but not when it defames any one particular group of people whose only difference is they love someone of the same sex. These folks are no different from anyone else - they are law abiding, pay taxes, and deserve the same rights and respect as any other group. As PAs, should we not follow the oath we all took or are did we all just pay lip service: Physician Assistant Professional Oath I pledge to perform the following duties with honesty and dedication:I will hold as my primary responsibility the health, safety, welfare and dignity of all human beings.I will uphold the tenets of patient autonomy, beneficence,nonmaleficence and justice.I will recognize and promote the value of diversity.I will treat equally all persons who seek my care.I will hold in confidence the information shared in the courseof practicing medicine.I will assess my personal capabilities and limitations,striving always to improve my medical practice.I will actively seek to expand my knowledge and skills, keepingabreast of advances in medicine.I will work with other members of the health care team toprovide compassionate and effective care of patients.I will use my knowledge and experience to contribute toan improved community.I will respect my professional relationship with the physician.I will share and expand knowledge within the profession.These duties are pledged with sincerity and upon my honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I call upon any of my MEDEX alumni to refresh my memories of the 80's since I do not recall taking or even hearing of such an oath. Physician Assistant Professional Oath I pledge to perform the following duties with honesty and dedication:I will hold as my primary responsibility the health, safety, welfare and dignity of all human beings.I will uphold the tenets of patient autonomy, beneficence,nonmaleficence and justice.I will recognize and promote the value of diversity.I will treat equally all persons who seek my care.I will hold in confidence the information shared in the course of practicing medicine.I will assess my personal capabilities and limitations,striving always to improve my medical practice.I will actively seek to expand my knowledge and skills, keepingabreast of advances in medicine.I will work with other members of the health care team toprovide compassionate and effective care of patients.I will use my knowledge and experience to contribute toan improved community.I will respect my professional relationship with the physician.I will share and expand knowledge within the profession.These duties are pledged with sincerity and upon my honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Check the AAPA website: http://www.aapa.org/uploadedFiles/PA%20Oath.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEN Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't agree with a lot of people in politics, people on TV, people in history, people in my community, people I work with, people I hang out with and people in my own family...that doesn't mean I don't listen to their advice and applaud their accomplishments. If I were to ignore and exclude everyone that doesn't think exactly the way I do this world would be a very lonely place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Carson's free speech is not being infringed. AAPA is a private organization which is free to hire or fire anyone they choose if they feel that their actions do not represent the mission of the organization. It is the AAPA's freedom that is the issue here, not a paid speaker. Carson doesn't have a right to be a compensated speaker anymore than any other person has a right to a job. Competition for jobs includes how the contractee meets the needs/goals of the contractor. The substance of what Carson said is not as relevant as how a private organization appreciates it. There is a spectrum of political opinions and the AAPA will have as many detractors as they have fans on this issue. Given that they are known for not acting as a representative organization, it's hard to see where they will land on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I agree that you can't ignore and exclude people Green (my friends and family are completely right to completely left) but as a keynote speaker for any organization or an award recipient from any organization, shouldn't he uphold the core message of that organization? I applaud his accomplishments. I honestly couldn't wait to hear him speak until I heard what he said. It doesn't take away from his accomplishments in the operating room or in medicine but I think if someone is speaking at a national convention for an organization, he/she should embody those same values that said organization claims they stand for regardless of whether or not i agree or disagree. I stand by our LGBT caucus members stance, GLMA stance, AMA stance, Hopkins' students stance, etc. I just don't think he fits into the AAPA values and message of diversity and equality enough to be a keynote speaker and award recipient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Check the AAPA website: http://www.aapa.org/uploadedFiles/PA%20Oath.pdf You conflate the AAPA with an organization that controls/supervises the professional conduct or positions of PAs, which it is not. AAPA is an organization that serves as an advoccate for it's MEMBERS ,not the individual members of the profession. So AAPA may have as many oaths and secret handshakes as it pleases for it's MEMBERS , but they don't or aren't applicable to other PAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Point taken ...since it is the AAPA then that has this oath, then shouldn't they uphold it? By virtue of his statements, it appears Dr. Carson doesn't fit it. However, I must point out, many schools/programs incorporate this Oath into white coat and/or graduation ceremonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 They want to give this guy a Paragon award? If this is the kind of person the AAPA holds up as an example to aspire to, no thanks, I'll continue to not be a member of AAPA. His comments are ignorant and embarrassing. They also demonstrate a pretty lousy understanding of human beings and how they work. And anyway, why would he be called upon to give an opinion about a political or social question like the legal definition of marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Febrifuge...he is retiring in June and has been very political these last few months. Several articles in Baltimore Sun among others note this... And yes, he is to receive the PAragon award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Interview with Dr. Carson by Andrea Mitchell (who certainly is no fan of Carson given their differences of political views): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-HrSqewI34 To me it's clear that he is not equating gays with pedophiles or bestiality. His point is simply that, when it comes to marriage, it should be between a man and a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEN Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Point taken...since it is the AAPA then that has this oath, then shouldn't they uphold it? By virtue of his statements, it appears Dr. Carson doesn't fit it. By curiosity, which comments are you referring to that violate that oath? Were they located in the following text? “Marriage is between a man and a woman, it’s a well established fundamental pillar of society,” Carson told Hannity. “And no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality, it doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition, so it’s not something that’s against gays, it’s agianst anybody who wants to come along and change the fundamental definitions of pillars of society–it has significant ramifications.” Here is the oath you provided for reference: Physician Assistant Professional Oath I pledge to perform the following duties with honesty and dedication:I will hold as my primary responsibility the health, safety, welfare and dignity of all human beings.I will uphold the tenets of patient autonomy, beneficence,nonmaleficence and justice.I will recognize and promote the value of diversity.I will treat equally all persons who seek my care.I will hold in confidence the information shared in the course of practicing medicine.I will assess my personal capabilities and limitations,striving always to improve my medical practice.I will actively seek to expand my knowledge and skills, keepingabreast of advances in medicine.I will work with other members of the health care team toprovide compassionate and effective care of patients.I will use my knowledge and experience to contribute toan improved community.I will respect my professional relationship with the physician.I will share and expand knowledge within the profession.These duties are pledged with sincerity and upon my honor. Pardon me, I may be slow, but I'm not seeing a direct conflict. Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Point taken...since it is the AAPA then that has this oath, then shouldn't they uphold it? By virtue of his statements, it appears Dr. Carson doesn't fit it. Action speaks louder than words..... cite where Doctor Carson's actions have failed to uphold the highest standards of medicine or negatively impacted this profession. He has spoken on his PERSONAL views on an issue that are reflective of a large segment of our society if not the world views on the subject. Yes ,the AAPA may elect to have who ever they please speak or not, just like they have taken positions on other issues that many of their members disagree with. Keep fighting for what you believe in , you have my undying support in voicing your views even if I disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Then why apologize for the comparison? He clearly compares homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia. Yes, he was trying to make a point that it is his belief that marriage is between a man and a woman but why is there a need for that comparison? I believe he has the right to share his views, don't get me wrong. But he is clearly an intelligent man, so why make that comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 . Keep fighting for what you believe in , you have my undying support in voicing you views even if I disagree. Right back atchya! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Then why apologize for the comparison? He clearly compares homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia. Yes, he was trying to make a point that it is his belief that marriage is between a man and a woman but why is there a need for that comparison? Does he equate homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia? Clearly no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Does he equate homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia? Clearly no. I must disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEN Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I must disagree. Unfortunately you are incorrect. I'm not trying to be rude but it's written in simple English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I must disagree. If you watch the Youtube video I linked (starts at 1:30 by the way), it's clear he doesn't. It's all about the sanctity of marriage in his view. And as someone else mentioned, about half of the country shares his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 By curiosity, which comments are you referring to that violate that oath? Were they located in the following text? “Marriage is between a man and a woman, it’s a well established fundamental pillar of society,” Carson told Hannity. “And no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality, it doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition, so it’s not something that’s against gays, it’s agianst anybody who wants to come along and change the fundamental definitions of pillars of society–it has significant ramifications.” Here is the oath you provided for reference: Physician Assistant Professional Oath I pledge to perform the following duties with honesty and dedication:I will hold as my primary responsibility the health, safety, welfare and dignity of all human beings.I will uphold the tenets of patient autonomy, beneficence,nonmaleficence and justice.I will recognize and promote the value of diversity.I will treat equally all persons who seek my care.I will hold in confidence the information shared in the course of practicing medicine.I will assess my personal capabilities and limitations,striving always to improve my medical practice.I will actively seek to expand my knowledge and skills, keepingabreast of advances in medicine.I will work with other members of the health care team toprovide compassionate and effective care of patients.I will use my knowledge and experience to contribute toan improved community.I will respect my professional relationship with the physician.I will share and expand knowledge within the profession.These duties are pledged with sincerity and upon my honor. Pardon me, I may be slow, but I'm not seeing a direct conflict. Thank you in advance. His statements are quite dehumanizing and defamatory to the LGBT community who already are known to suffer from inequality in receiving healthcare (way too many studies to cite but feel free to do your own search). He is not upholding the following: I will hold as my primary responsibility the health, safety, welfare and dignity of all human beings. What he said certainly goes against that as he is not upholding the dignity of all human beings by his comparisons. THis is just one example. Again, these are my views and I am not alone in my views nor do I expect all others to agree with my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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