Maverick87 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hey all. I'm starting a new part-time job tomorrow. We agreed to terms, but there has been no mention of a written contract. It is a small solo-physician practice that has never hired any other kind of provider before. The backstory here is that this practice is a former mom-and-pops shop (husband and wife) that has been there for 20+ years. The wife has been practicing solo since her husband had a stroke a year or 2 back and she is burnt out, which is why they wanted to hire another provider. The practice appears to be thriving, but a bit stuck in the past (no EMR). I've had some bad bosses in the past (so I don't believe that I'm overly naive) and I think that these people are honest, but inexperienced in hiring. How do you think I should go about this? I'd like to start working soon, but, after reading through many threads here, I'd also like to have a contract in writing (even though the terms are simple: hourly pay and malpractice....nothing else). Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 if it isn't written down it doesn't exist. To trot out an old legal chestnut... a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Yes verbal contracts have some legal weight and enforcibility but the potential arguments about who said what make them pretty much useless. I have counseled a few folks over the years who were going into practice with someone and my advice is simple and always the same.....write it down and sign it. Anticipate as many possibilities as are practical and get them written down. Salary and time off? easy... Under what circumstances can you quit or be terminated? Hard. You get the idea. Cover the bases in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Just keep in mind- as it sits now, your first payday could come along and you get a zero dollar check. That's when they say it was a "working interview" or some equivalent nonsense. Just ask for the pay, malpractice, expected hours and schedule to be outlined in a signed offer letter. It protects both you and the employer when everyone has the same expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Just keep in mind- as it sits now, your first payday could come along and you get a zero dollar check. That's when they say it was a "working interview" or some equivalent nonsense. Just ask for the pay, malpractice, expected hours and schedule to be outlined in a signed offer letter. It protects both you and the employer when everyone has the same expectations. Good advice. Thanks. I already have a copy of the malpractice. I'm under the doctor's malpractice insurance. It's 1m/3m occurrence-based. Does that signed letter need to be compiled by an attorney or can we just do it ourselves and sign it? If I could just do it myself, then I'll type it up and just get everyone to sign it. Or we could get it notarized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 The employer needs to write it up. It is their responsibility, not yours. Just say to them- I would feel more comfortable if we had a formal offer letter so that we are all on the same page. It should not be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 You guys were definitely right about having a contract. I drew up my own contract and, apparently, there were some things we were very far apart on. For anyone viewing this thread, make sure you have a contract in place before working somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeTheBabe Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 What was far apart? What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 What was far apart? What happened? She wanted me to see 4 patients per hour in a 24 hour week (including two 7 hours shifts). Basically, 28 patients a day without a break. In addition to that, she was still using paper charts (which were substandard at best), but there was another system for e-prescribing. In addition to that, lower than average pay and no benefits. The thing that really got me was the 28 patients without a break. Crazy. I would have killed someone. In the end, she responded to my contract with an odd and nasty text message. I responded with my resignation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Not that it matters now, but- any time for charting in there? Just curious, in your initial conversation where you had agreed on terms verbally, what sort of patient load did you expect to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Not that it matters now, but- any time for charting in there? Just curious, in your initial conversation where you had agreed on terms verbally, what sort of patient load did you expect to see? Nope, no time for charting. And they didn't even have a charting system in place, for that matter. Extremely disorganized paper charts. It would have taken forever to look back at the charts and then document properly. I felt that the entire situation left me open to massive liability (and, indeed, this physician lost a malpractice lawsuit a few years ago because of this very issue). When I interviewed, I was told that the expectation was 15 minute appointments with 30 minute appointments for complicated patients. Later on, I discovered that these "30 minute appointments" would basically just be me spending more time with that patient, while making others wait. I probably should have gotten an exact number (or at least a range). So that was my fault. It was a short-term job so I wasn't expecting perfection, but the potential liability and general disorganization at all levels combined with the patient load were a no go for me. Also, her insistence that we not have a contract was a red flag as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Well, lots of places don't have contracts, but they should not be opposed to outlining the basics of pay, malpractice, expected hours etc in an official offer. Better luck next time! Sounds like this one wasn't right for you anyway :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Well, lots of places don't have contracts, but they should not be opposed to outlining the basics of pay, malpractice, expected hours etc in an official offer. Better luck next time! Sounds like this one wasn't right for you anyway :) That was pretty much my issue. She was unwilling to even outline anything in an official letter. I had to do it. And, when I did, she sent me an unprofessional text message basically saying "take it or leave it". I left it. And thanks! I already have other opportunities that I'm exploring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted April 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2016 Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Bump. What about an email that outlines in great detail pay, benefits, hours, malpractice, etc. I've had contracts before and this email looks very similar to these contracts (in fact, it's actually better than most). Would all of these details in an email from the office manager suffice (since it's written)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 For me, the stumbling block might be that the email is from the office manager, and not from the practice owner/ your future supervisor. I'm no lawyer, but I can be diabolical when the situation calls for it. *If* were an unscrupulous employer, I can see how it might benefit me to be able to claim "oh, that was just an email. Nothing legally binding." or "the office manager didn't have the authority to offer that." Get it in writing, on paper, signed by everyone in ink. That's what I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 For me, the stumbling block might be that the email is from the office manager, and not from the practice owner/ your future supervisor. I'm no lawyer, but I can be diabolical when the situation calls for it. *If* were an unscrupulous employer, I can see how it might benefit me to be able to claim "oh, that was just an email. Nothing legally binding." or "the office manager didn't have the authority to offer that." Get it in writing, on paper, signed by everyone in ink. That's what I say. Thanks for the advice! This is mostly resolved. The office manager put it into a contract and even added some things that we discussed that was previously not included without my prodding (such as tail coverage on my malpractice). I don't have a copy of the contract with the owner's signature yet (because I'm moving to that area as we speak), but, with the way they've been conducting business so far, I have no reason to believe that I will have trouble getting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain1028 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Never trust a turn signal by another driver...and never trust promises of a bonus.....(unless in writing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Never trust a turn signal by another driver...and never trust promises of a bonus.....(unless in writing). I got it in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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