Priority enrollment for Vets

[LESH]

I am interested in the possibility of giving priority admission to Vets if they: commit to practice Primary Care in an area of unmet need; willing to take a job (at a competitive and comparable PC salary at a FQHC, RHC, CHC, IHS, county facility or VA) in an area designated by the PA program; sign a contract with the VA or NHSC to do this for 2 years.

 

I have been floating some ideas to faculty and administration. I think it can be done in accordance to ARC-PA standards, but would require the buy in from HRSA, VA, NHSC (because they would have to provide FA) and clinical affiliates (because they would have to hire the graduates). That may be the devil in the details. LOL. We simply want some kind of assurance that there will be a service obligation payback that fits the program's specific mission.

 

Applicants would have to meet published admission criteria. The program would maintain the right to select candidates. The program could develop a pre-PA program to help potential applicants meet pre-perquisites (the Feds would have to take on that cost also). Matriculants would have to complete the entire PA curriculum. Upon graduation and certification, the program is capable of helping to place candidates in the above mentioned facilities (the VA is a bit touchy, but that's one reason we need buy in from them).

 

The Feds don't have to tempt us with a grant, I'd prefer a contract to develop and maintain the Pre PA track. If Halliburton can get a no bid contract why can't PA programs? The Feds pay for the student’s education, living expenses (since they have VA benefits) but tie it all to a service obligation that the program helps coordinate. The program has an established NHSC Ambassador program and is successful in graduate placement in underserved areas.

 

I am sending out feelers to professional organizations and governmental agencies. I plan to talk with anyone who may have input on this at the PAEA meeting this coming week.

 

Just curious and thinking out loud. We can’t do this for the current admission cycle but possibly the next one. Do you think Vets would go for something like that? Would appreciate your comments.

 

LesH

[ToppDog]

I'm sure vets would jump all over this if given the opportunity. I know I would.

[LESH]

Thanks ToppDog.

[primadonna22274]

I like it Les! Keep thinking out loud....

[villa6]

I am a vet with 40 hours till I meet all PA application requirements, so I don't know if this would apply to me, but you caught my attention with this post.

[HMtoPA]

IMO there would need to be admission into some sort of guaranteed "pre-PA" track like you mentioned for this to be worth it (from the vet's standpoint). As an active-duty corpsman looking into civilian schools to attend after completing my service obligation, the biggest hurdle I faced was increasingly difficult pre-requisite requirements. With every passing year, the list of required pre-requisites seems to grow, and the number of schools not requiring a bachelor's degree (a major limiting factor for an enlisted vet) has shrunken to almost nil. As a vet, if I'm required to meet all these pre-reqs, then I don't really understand what the "preference" would be. I mean, I sort of think any adcom worth its salt would already look at a vet's prior medical experience most favorably, assuming they met the pre-reqs, so what's the point of putting myself in a box and signing some sort of practice-limiting contract unless the school is going to give something (waiving certain pre-reqs, for example)? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but do you see my point?

 

Another area where preference might be given would be to grant resident status for admission and tuition purposes. Military members move around a lot, and are sort of rootless - the transition form active duty would be easier if schools were lenient on residency. I know the University of Washington already sort of does this (not granting in-state tuition, but not penalizing vet's as out-of-state applicants for admissions purposes - at least they told me as much via email).

 

Anyway, it's sort of a moot point for me - I matriculated into IPAP several months ago - but I'd love to see civilian PA schools do more to attract quality candidates with military medical experience. I know first-hand that there are lots of them out there. Good luck.

[bradtPA]

The preference is an advantage to admission over a non-vet. And at a program like LesH's with a lot of applicants, that's a real advantage.

[HMtoPA]

I guess IMO that that is not enough of an advantage to have to sign some sort of restrictive agreement with the school. If they're getting ten applicants straight from undergrad for every one from a combat-experienced medic, and all are similar academically, the vets are going to stand out regardless. Obviously, I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but my point is that any vet that has what it takes academically to make it through PA school is already going to be a competitive applicant.

 

If I were going to a civilian PA school, I would look into something like this for loan forgiveness, but not for some vague notion of "preference." Two years of a PA-C's working life are far too valuable in exchange for something intangible.

 

But that's just my $0.02 - LesH asked for a vet's perspective and I'm giving my own, respectfully but honestly.

[LESH]

IMO there would need to be admission into some sort of guaranteed "pre-PA" track like you mentioned for this to be worth it (from the vet's standpoint).

Understood and what I was actually thinking. Along with DANTEs, Clep and every military credit that articulates with and fulfills a prereq.

 

As an active-duty corpsman looking into civilian schools to attend after completing my service obligation, the biggest hurdle I faced was increasingly difficult pre-requisite requirements. With every passing year, the list of required pre-requisites seems to grow, and the number of schools not requiring a bachelor's degree (a major limiting factor for an enlisted vet) has shrunken to almost nil.

I know. You don't know how I much know and have said for years. What works for us is that we are still one of those programs and have always activiely recruited vets.

 

As a vet, if I'm required to meet all these pre-reqs, then I don't really understand what the "preference" would be. I mean, I sort of think any adcom worth its salt would already look at a vet's prior medical experience most favorably, assuming they met the pre-reqs, so what's the point of putting myself in a box and signing some sort of practice-limiting contract unless the school is going to give something (waiving certain pre-reqs, for example)? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but do you see my point?

Good point. You are right any ADCOM worth its salt should do that. I don't argue that. The reason is being a mission driven program. To train PAs for a certain geoghrahic region of California. Its not for everyone. This is just one possible plan that meets the healthcare workforce needs of about eight counties in California.If the program can recruit vets that will meet this mission, the ADCOM can give perference, priority and select. That's my point. It is like a 4 year deployment. And who knows maybe some will stay after the two years.

 

Another area where preference might be given would be to grant resident status for admission and tuition purposes. Military members move around a lot, and are sort of rootless - the transition form active duty would be easier if schools were lenient on residency. I know the University of Washington already sort of does this (not granting in-state tuition, but not penalizing vet's as out-of-state applicants for admissions purposes - at least they told me as much via email).

 

Another good point. PAEA needs to hear about the barriers to Vets. I'll pass this thread on to them.

 

Anyway, it's sort of a moot point for me - I matriculated into IPAP several months ago - but I'd love to see civilian PA schools do more to attract quality candidates with military medical experience. I know first-hand that there are lots of them out there. Good luck.

 

Congrats- I hope the civilian PA schools do more also. Thank you for your service.

[LESH]

No I am afraid that I wasn't clear enough. What I am proposing is to reserve or set aside a number of seats in the program. For vets that meet the Feds ACA citeria and PA program's admission criteria and willing to practice primary care in rural Central California for a minimum of 2 years.

 

This is what one program can do. Others need to come up with what they can do. Hopefully there will be so many different models that we can accomodate as many vets as possible. I'm just thinking out loud. Your comments are welcome and really appriecated. I will be sending this link to staff at PAEA so they can see your thoughts.

[LESH]

I guess IMO that that is not enough of an advantage to have to sign some sort of restrictive agreement with the school. If they're getting ten applicants straight from undergrad for every one from a combat-experienced medic, and all are similar academically, the vets are going to stand out regardless. Obviously, I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but my point is that any vet that has what it takes academically to make it through PA school is already going to be a competitive applicant.

 

If I were going to a civilian PA school, I would look into something like this for loan forgiveness, but not for some vague notion of "preference." Two years of a PA-C's working life are far too valuable in exchange for something intangible.

 

But that's just my $0.02 - LesH asked for a vet's perspective and I'm giving my own, respectfully but honestly.

 

Faie enough and thanks this is what I am asking be honest.

[HMtoPA]

Consider that my perspective is offered from the comfort of a seat in PA school. Maybe I would be all over this idea if I were still in the application phase.

 

I'm not sure what program you're involved with, but obviously finances can be a hurdle for everyone, not least of all vets. The new GI Bill helps considerably, but if schools want to attract vets specifically (and this really only applies to private schools) they should consider participating in the Yellow Ribbon program, whereby the government matches dollar-for-dollar any amount of tuition the school agrees to pay beyond the ceiling of what the GI Bill covers.

 

Also thinking out loud, but maybe an all vet cohort would be a good idea? I'm thinking about inter student relations ("so-and-so is only here cause he's a vet." etc.)

[HMtoPA]

Also thinking out loud, but maybe an all vet cohort would be a good idea? I'm thinking about inter student relations ("so-and-so is only here cause he's a vet." etc.)

 

Eh, probably not at all practicable.

[LESH]

Eh, probably not at all practicable.

 

Pretty much, but not impossible. Afterall, we are just thinking out loud.

[devildoc0311]

Assuming the vet is receiving post 9/11 GI Bill benefits they are already entitled to 100% tuition/fees up to state-dependent cap + E5 stipend/month. In GA this would equal $17,500 (tuition/yr) + $1000 (books/fees) + $1100 (stipend)x12 months = ~ $31,700/yr. As a 2 time combat deployed vet, I view the GI Bill as $$ I've already paid my dues for. So the perks of your program would have to be pretty damn good for me to be tempted.

 

To me, the financial benefit (maybe around another $10k-$15/yr) of this idea would not be worth a 2 yr commitment following PA school. I can see this benefiting vets with non-healthcare military experience or very low GPAs. I'd have to agree with HMtoPA on this one.

 

-Just my humble $.02

[LESH]

Assuming the vet is receiving post 9/11 GI Bill benefits they are already entitled to 100% tuition/fees up to state-dependent cap + E5 stipend/month. In GA this would equal $17,500 (tuition/yr) + $1000 (books/fees) + $1100 (stipend)x12 months = ~ $31,700/yr. As a 2 time combat deployed vet, I view the GI Bill as $$ I've already paid my dues for. So the perks of your program would have to be pretty damn good for me to be tempted.

 

To me, the financial benefit (maybe around another $10k-$15/yr) of this idea would not be worth a 2 yr commitment following PA school. I can see this benefiting vets with non-healthcare military experience or very low GPAs. I'd have to agree with HMtoPA on this one.

 

-Just my humble $.02

 

Thanks doc. Good to know.

[Corpsman2PA]

In regards to the pre-PA prereqs, I know Trevecca University has some sort of HM-->PA bridge program they're trying out that requires certain pre-req classes and maintaining a GPA above a designated level. Doing such guarantees admittance into their program. Not sure how its working out, as I believe it is a new idea they have recently implemented.

 

Whats interesting is this sort of idea (getting vets with vast HCE trained as PAs) gets back to the roots of the profession. I feel that this would pique the interest of a lot of us vets applying to your program, although we've already been interested in your program because of such dedication to the veterans. One more tool to help a transitioning Corpsman/Medic to PA school is a good thing IMO. I'd like to see where this goes.

[LESH]

Corpsman2PA;318394]In regards to the pre-PA prereqs, I know Trevecca University has some sort of HM-->PA bridge program they're trying out that requires certain pre-req classes and maintaining a GPA above a designated level. Doing such guarantees admittance into their program. Not sure how its working out, as I believe it is a new idea they have recently implemented.

 

Medics in Medicine Bridge Program info: http://www.trevecca.edu/adult-education/graduate-programs/physician-assistant/

 

 

Whats interesting is this sort of idea (getting vets with vast HCE trained as PAs) gets back to the roots of the profession. I feel that this would pique the interest of a lot of us vets applying to your program, although we've already been interested in your program because of such dedication to the veterans. One more tool to help a transitioning Corpsman/Medic to PA school is a good thing IMO. I'd like to see where this goes.

 

So would I and should know more after next week. I know we can make something work in (and for) California.

[LESH]

Medics in Medicine Bridge Program info: http://www.trevecca.edu/adult-education/graduate-programs/physician-assistant/

 

I like this model. I know we can make something work like this in (and for) California. Do Dantes, CLEP, for general education requirements (English, Social Sciences, Math, even Speech). Offer A&P, Pharm Micro and Chem courses. Successful participants matriculate into the next class. So technically, there could be an entire class cohort at some time in the future...

 

Thanks for the comments everyone. This one thread introduced me to a bridge model in practice, gave some cons that I need to hear, and put something out there for other PA educators, leaders and policy people can think about.

 

Keep them coming. Here's another thing that PAEA might want to know. How many Vets on the forum are consider applying? Could someone set up a survey? I'll pass the thread on to PAEA for them to follow. Or not just thinking out loud.

[HMtoPA]

Wow - interesting looking program. Looks like a good model - it allows the school to maintain it's admission standards while addressing the unique needs of the vet by allowing them to get core classes done with some certainty that they'll be able to continue on in the PA program. Honestly, I would have been more likely to go the civilian route if there were more programs like this.

 

Plus it's really win-win - from the school's point of view, there is all this GI Bill money out there to tap into, and it helps motivated vets who are just a little behind the power curve because they've been too busy deploying to finish their undergrad degrees. And of course it ultimately puts more providers on the street. Happy to see this.

[Corpsman2PA]

Keep them coming. Here's another thing that PAEA might want to know. How many Vets on the forum are consider applying? Could someone set up a survey? I'll pass the thread on to PAEA for them to follow. Or not just thinking out loud.

 

Considering applying to your program, Or to PA programs in general? I'd be happy to set something up as an outside info gatherer that you can submit to PAEA.

[LESH]

Considering applying to your program, Or to PA programs in general? I'd be happy to set something up as an outside info gatherer that you can submit to PAEA.

 

Thanks. Programs in general. I don't think anyone has an idea the true number of potential Medic and Corpsman pre-PAs out there. Or can know. Not all programs are CASPA so some applicants don't participate in CASPA.

[EMEDPA]

I like it. I bet you can make this work in the context of the new federal mandate.

[LESH]

I like it. I bet you can make this work in the context of the new federal mandate.

 

I agree Emed. Everything seems to be a "pseudo-go". We could do a similar bridge program modified to meet our requirements and program mission. This week is the PAEA annual meeting and I do have a chance to talk with leadership and the Feds about the possibilities. I have a draft proposal almost finished.

[ventana]

great idea - really like the vet preference as a key point and the mandate might really help

 

love supporting the vets