Simkin Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I find it funny that MMiller and other nay-sayers are so concerned over "time and energy spent" that is not their own time and energy! I agree with him 100% that the re-cert test should be eliminated or at least revamped to more appropriately test the competencies of PAs in individual specialties similar to what MDs do. Who knows what will happen with a suit, but I am exhausted and quite frankly dismayed that people on this forum are so ready to judge and shoot down other PAs when they were not affected by the PANRE error themselves. I challenge MMiller and other nay-sayers to begin to spend their own time and energy on effecting a change in the re-certification process; I am sure many will follow in your leadership. It's just not that easy. Until then please give some poor PAs a break. Most suits like the 2006 SAT mis-scores settle anyway. If involved PAs received even just a $3 check for their mental anguish it would at least put the NCCPA on point. It could be a start to revamping the whole process.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbeans Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have not read all the previous post, but what is going on with the class action suit against NCCPA? I haven't taken the PANRE, but count me in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I have not read all the previous post, but what is going on with the class action suit against NCCPA? I haven't taken the PANRE, but count me in! I will try to summarize as best I can. In June when the PANRE speciality exams were now being offered an inordinate amount of of PA-C failed the PANRE. Many failed miserably (scores in the 200s). When they tried to contact NCCPA to get more information all they received was a standard form letter response offering no explanation stating that there was nothing wrong with the test. There were several that contacted the NCCPA even before they received their scores stating that they felt they received the wrong speciality exam. Many felt there was a problem with the scoring of the exam. NCCPA would not provide any tranparency. So those that failed signed up for another exam date, hit the books harder signed up for review course (and of course mental anguish over the potential of losing ones career) etc.... Only to find out later that there ACTUALLY was a problem with the scoring of the exam and they did not fail they passed. That is what this is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjay1010 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 The NCCPA sent me a check for $350 today 10/13/11. Might quick of them. Anybody else recieve their money back? Boy are they really trying to sweep this under the rug. I still haven't heard back from AAPA on their position on NCCPA's poor showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrsmurf Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I find it funny that MMiller and other nay-sayers are so concerned over "time and energy spent" that is not their own time and energy! I agree with him 100% that the re-cert test should be eliminated or at least revamped to more appropriately test the competencies of PAs in individual specialties similar to what MDs do. Who knows what will happen with a suit, but I am exhausted and quite frankly dismayed that people on this forum are so ready to judge and shoot down other PAs when they were not affected by the PANRE error themselves. I challenge MMiller and other nay-sayers to begin to spend their own time and energy on effecting a change in the re-certification process; I am sure many will follow in your leadership. It's just not that easy. Until then please give some poor PAs a break. Most suits like the 2006 SAT mis-scores settle anyway. If involved PAs received even just a $3 check for their mental anguish it would at least put the NCCPA on point. It could be a start to revamping the whole process.... I disagree on specialty tests because as PA's, one can easily change specialties (or even different specialties at the same time) and thus should be tested in medicine broadly. Yes, it's tough to study/review all that information if you've specialized, but the opportunity to change specialties at anytime is one of the major benefits of this profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAdaddy Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Let's get this activity off this forum. If you are interested in a class action suit or in trying to get some news coverage, please send me a PM. This is my last post regarding this thread. There's always somebody trying to shoot the horse from under you. I hope to hear from many of you. We can do this much better on our own. @mikejfox, I'm just catching up on this thread on page 3/6 so far so If you've already done what I'm about to suggest just ignore it, or troll me to death like I fully expect :) ... You should make a reply post in the HUGE thread that has been going for months about the PANRE failures. I recall many many people expressing similar thoughts and several of them were directly affected. They will most likely see the update via email from that thread and respond. I read this forum ALOT, but I tend to do it in bursts and I often miss out on threads like this if they don't show up on the top 10 list. I like your enthusiasm. I hope I still have it after I "finish my little tests". -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berfenur Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I too was a victim of the PANRE scoring mistake along with 3 other PA's from work who all failed and now passed. If someone puts together a class action suit, count us all in. NCCPA is BS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRat Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I talked to a lawyer friend yesterday (they really do exist) and she said this could be a tort claim for "negligent infliction of emotional distress", which is very difficult to prove, timely, costly and lets the nccpa lawyers basically have access to your entire personal life and she didn't recommend it. She also mentioned a class action suit as well. I don't know how many people it takes to file a class action suit but I'd support it. In the end I decided I am going to write a scathing letter to the NCCPA letting them know how their negligent action regarding this "anomaly" has negatively affected my professional and personal life, and how I think their "mission is to serve the public through exemplary programs that evaluate critical PA competencies and that require the pursuit of life-long learning and improvement" is conducted at the poorest standard (and is essentially BS). I will be glad to post my letter here and on a public forum for all to see when completed. Let's stick together and let the NCCPA not get away with such disrespectful actions against the very professionals keeping them in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushmouth Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Negligent infliction of emotional distress has a standard that it must be emotional distress as a result of something absolutely preposterous that nobody should be subject to. An example of this is your boss saying that you have to show up to work covered in chocolate in order to keep your job. Basically what we have here is that there was a glitch in the NCCPA scoring process, they found it, corrected it, went beyond what is required of them (returning fees), and in essence, admitted their mistake. As an FYI for the future, the best way to go about thinking about legal action is to try and first defend the course of action for which you are seeking remedy. I think our time is better spent uniting and eliminating the NCCPA through the AAPA and local licensing boards. Then eliminate the AAPA too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think our time is better spent uniting and eliminating the NCCPA through the AAPA and local licensing boards. Then eliminate the AAPA too. yeah, good luck with THAT! in case you haven't noticed, the nccpa and the aapa are in bed together. they're inseparable!! i sent an email to the aapa to see what they were planning on doing to help us out with this....as of today (a week after contacting them) i have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM THEM. BOTH THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE TOTAL B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yeah, good luck with THAT! in case you haven't noticed, the nccpa and the aapa are in bed together. they're inseparable!! i sent an email to the aapa to see what they were planning on doing to help us out with this....as of today (a week after contacting them) i have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM THEM. BOTH THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE TOTAL B.S. The NCCPA and the AAPA are not "in bed" together. The NCCPA is a totally independent organization / corporation. The only role that the AAPA has in the NCCPA is to suggest nominees for the two seats on the NCCPA board of trustees allotted to the AAPA. It is up to the BOT of the NCCPA to vote on new members nominated by supporting organizations. There is no guaranteed acceptance, and nominees have been rejected by the NCCPA in the past. All members of the NCCPA BOT are fiducially responsible to the NCCPA organization, and don't actually represent the interests of the member organizations. The AAPA has a significant amount of policy on PA education and certification, but has no "hammer" to enforce it on an independent certifying body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yeah, good luck with THAT! in case you haven't noticed, the nccpa and the aapa are in bed together. they're inseparable!! i sent an email to the aapa to see what they were planning on doing to help us out with this....as of today (a week after contacting them) i have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM THEM. BOTH THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE TOTAL B.S. The NCCPA and the AAPA are not "in bed" together. The NCCPA is a totally independent organization / corporation. The only role that the AAPA has in the NCCPA is to suggest nominees for the two seats on the NCCPA board of trustees allotted to the AAPA. It is up to the BOT of the NCCPA to vote on new members nominated by supporting organizations. There is no guaranteed acceptance, and nominees have been rejected by the NCCPA in the past. All members of the NCCPA BOT are fiducially responsible to the NCCPA organization, and don't actually represent the interests of the member organizations. The AAPA has a significant amount of policy on PA education and certification, but has no "hammer" to enforce it on an independent certifying body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The NCCPA and the AAPA are not "in bed" together. The NCCPA is a totally independent organization / corporation. The only role that the AAPA has in the NCCPA is to suggest nominees for the two seats on the NCCPA board of trustees allotted to the AAPA. It is up to the BOT of the NCCPA to vote on new members nominated by supporting organizations. There is no guaranteed acceptance, and nominees have been rejected by the NCCPA in the past. All members of the NCCPA BOT are fiducially responsible to the NCCPA organization, and don't actually represent the interests of the member organizations. The AAPA has a significant amount of policy on PA education and certification, but has no "hammer" to enforce it on an independent certifying body. MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. if they did, they would have released a supportive statement about the PANRE scoring screw-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The NCCPA and the AAPA are not "in bed" together. The NCCPA is a totally independent organization / corporation. The only role that the AAPA has in the NCCPA is to suggest nominees for the two seats on the NCCPA board of trustees allotted to the AAPA. It is up to the BOT of the NCCPA to vote on new members nominated by supporting organizations. There is no guaranteed acceptance, and nominees have been rejected by the NCCPA in the past. All members of the NCCPA BOT are fiducially responsible to the NCCPA organization, and don't actually represent the interests of the member organizations. The AAPA has a significant amount of policy on PA education and certification, but has no "hammer" to enforce it on an independent certifying body. MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. if they did, they would have released a supportive statement about the PANRE scoring screw-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. if they did, they would have released a supportive statement about the PANRE scoring screw-up. Well at least not publicly http://saaapa.aapa.org/education-and-certification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. if they did, they would have released a supportive statement about the PANRE scoring screw-up. Well at least not publicly http://saaapa.aapa.org/education-and-certification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well at least not publicly http://saaapa.aapa.org/education-and-certification actually, your link has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. unless i missed something, the recent screw-up by the nccpa isn't mentioned in this release. they do however, talk about how pleased they are with themselves in talking the nccpa out of pursuing specialty certification; something many PA's (including me) are completely in favor of. so once again, the aapa proves themselves in bed with the nccpa. i haven't sent membership dues to the aapa in years, and i have no intention of ever doing so in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well at least not publicly http://saaapa.aapa.org/education-and-certification actually, your link has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. unless i missed something, the recent screw-up by the nccpa isn't mentioned in this release. they do however, talk about how pleased they are with themselves in talking the nccpa out of pursuing specialty certification; something many PA's (including me) are completely in favor of. so once again, the aapa proves themselves in bed with the nccpa. i haven't sent membership dues to the aapa in years, and i have no intention of ever doing so in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlwpac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Let me preface this posting by saying that I am not affected by the PANRE grading issue directly. Also, I am not an attorney and I do not claim for the following to be legal advice or expertise in any way. After reading this thread, I asked someone I know what they think of the issue, and whether this is a case for legal action. This person told me that the best approach would not be to go the class action route because in that instance, the people represented have to have suffered in a relatively equal manner. This is not the case with many of you involved, some of you who may have been upset by the false failure grade, while others suffered significant monetary consequences by paying for review programs, travel expenses to the review, etc. Each of you who have been affected by this debacle should (if you so choose) pursue legal action as an individual so you may present you case as it relates to your person situation. Second, the legal issue at hand is negligence on the part of the NCCPA. Legally, proof of negligence has a few aspects you have to prove. One is duty. The NCCPA has a duty to faithfully execute the PANRE and provide reliable results. The second part is proving breech of duty. This duty was obviously breeched by not assuring the grading process was accurate, and sending out false scores to people. Next is proof that you suffered harm because of this breech of duty. This can be emotional, physical, monetary, etc. At the very least, everyone affected suffered emotional harm - but this may be difficult to prove. Many of you may also have a case for monetary harm, due to extra review courses, time away from work for reviews or to study, etc. You can read more about the aspects of negligence here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligence Lastly, it is in your best interest to hire an attorney to file a claim against the NCCPA rather than do it yourself. You will be taken more seriously if you do it this way. You can also put in your claim that you expect them to cover your attorney's fees. Rather than deal with each of your cases individually, there is a good chance that the NCCPA would simply settle, especially knowing you are so serious as to have hired an attorney for the case, so you don't even have to pay the attorney for anything more than filing the case for you. Ideally, the NCCPA will give you enough money to offset if not fully reimburse you for your losses, and the cost of the attorney. If they do want to pursue the case and you don't want to pay the attorney up front, you could always drop the case. In either outcome, it puts them on notice that everyone affected is seriously upset by their actions. I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlwpac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Let me preface this posting by saying that I am not affected by the PANRE grading issue directly. Also, I am not an attorney and I do not claim for the following to be legal advice or expertise in any way. After reading this thread, I asked someone I know what they think of the issue, and whether this is a case for legal action. This person told me that the best approach would not be to go the class action route because in that instance, the people represented have to have suffered in a relatively equal manner. This is not the case with many of you involved, some of you who may have been upset by the false failure grade, while others suffered significant monetary consequences by paying for review programs, travel expenses to the review, etc. Each of you who have been affected by this debacle should (if you so choose) pursue legal action as an individual so you may present you case as it relates to your person situation. Second, the legal issue at hand is negligence on the part of the NCCPA. Legally, proof of negligence has a few aspects you have to prove. One is duty. The NCCPA has a duty to faithfully execute the PANRE and provide reliable results. The second part is proving breech of duty. This duty was obviously breeched by not assuring the grading process was accurate, and sending out false scores to people. Next is proof that you suffered harm because of this breech of duty. This can be emotional, physical, monetary, etc. At the very least, everyone affected suffered emotional harm - but this may be difficult to prove. Many of you may also have a case for monetary harm, due to extra review courses, time away from work for reviews or to study, etc. You can read more about the aspects of negligence here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligence Lastly, it is in your best interest to hire an attorney to file a claim against the NCCPA rather than do it yourself. You will be taken more seriously if you do it this way. You can also put in your claim that you expect them to cover your attorney's fees. Rather than deal with each of your cases individually, there is a good chance that the NCCPA would simply settle, especially knowing you are so serious as to have hired an attorney for the case, so you don't even have to pay the attorney for anything more than filing the case for you. Ideally, the NCCPA will give you enough money to offset if not fully reimburse you for your losses, and the cost of the attorney. If they do want to pursue the case and you don't want to pay the attorney up front, you could always drop the case. In either outcome, it puts them on notice that everyone affected is seriously upset by their actions. I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 actually, your link has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. . MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. . "AAPA, as a matter of policy, is opposed to specialty certification and to the use of specialty examinations that could reduce the profession’s versatility and flexibility. While AAPA recognizes that NCCPA is an independent body, on behalf of our members, we have been consistent in communicating our opposition to specialty certification to the NCCPA" My link simply provides some level of dispute regarding your comment; " in bed together and they always have been...does not represent the interests of our profession.". I'll be interested to see if AAPA comes out with an offical position regarding recent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 actually, your link has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. . MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. . "AAPA, as a matter of policy, is opposed to specialty certification and to the use of specialty examinations that could reduce the profession’s versatility and flexibility. While AAPA recognizes that NCCPA is an independent body, on behalf of our members, we have been consistent in communicating our opposition to specialty certification to the NCCPA" My link simply provides some level of dispute regarding your comment; " in bed together and they always have been...does not represent the interests of our profession.". I'll be interested to see if AAPA comes out with an offical position regarding recent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 "AAPA, as a matter of policy, is opposed to specialty certification and to the use of specialty examinations that could reduce the profession’s versatility and flexibility. While AAPA recognizes that NCCPA is an independent body, on behalf of our members, we have been consistent in communicating our opposition to specialty certification to the NCCPA" My link simply provides some level of dispute regarding your comment; " in bed together and they always have been...does not represent the interests of our profession.". I'll be interested to see if AAPA comes out with an offical position regarding recent events. fair enough. but, like i said i contacted them when the nccpa 1st came forward with their error. to date, i have not received a response from them. so i can only conclude that they have no interest in the PA's that support them (myself NOT included) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgipa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 "AAPA, as a matter of policy, is opposed to specialty certification and to the use of specialty examinations that could reduce the profession’s versatility and flexibility. While AAPA recognizes that NCCPA is an independent body, on behalf of our members, we have been consistent in communicating our opposition to specialty certification to the NCCPA" My link simply provides some level of dispute regarding your comment; " in bed together and they always have been...does not represent the interests of our profession.". I'll be interested to see if AAPA comes out with an offical position regarding recent events. fair enough. but, like i said i contacted them when the nccpa 1st came forward with their error. to date, i have not received a response from them. so i can only conclude that they have no interest in the PA's that support them (myself NOT included) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 MY opinion is that they're in bed together and they always have been. the aapa does not represent the interests of our profession. if they did, they would have released a supportive statement about the PANRE scoring screw-up. We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't buy the logic that because they didn't respond to you (a self-proclaimed non-member) on your terms and with a statement acceptable to you, it is prima facie evidence that the AAPA doesn't represent the profession. However, I assume from your screen name that you are a surgical PA, like me. Do you like getting reimbursed for surgical first assisting? How do you think that this came about? I will tell you how. Folks like Michael Powe on the AAPA staff busting his butt for decades fighting for the profession, paid by the dues dollars of members. That is but one of many examples. If you don't want to be a member, don't. That is everyone's right. The AAPA has done plenty, right and wrong, over the years. But I for one would never not support my state, national and specialty organizations, because I know for a fact that they are the only ones representing my interests in Sacramento, and Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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