CAAdmission Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 If you don't understand the acronym FUBAR, trust me: it is not good. PAs have long debated the value of specialty-specific examinations in our practice. While you will certainly see many different opinions of them on here, you should note that historically the AAPA, acting as the voice of our profession, has generally stood against them. Unfortunately, the all powerful NCCPA (like they historically have done) basically said "go crap in your hat, we are doing what we want and that is it." September saw the beginning of "specialty certifications." So why am I posting this in the student section? Because it has the potential to have a severe adverse effect on you as you begin your practice. You should go to the NCCPA website and look at this immediately. For example, say you are interested in working in emergency medicine. Formerly, it was occasionally a pain to find a job which did not require previous experience, but it was essentially always possible. You might have to move, work lousy hours, etc, but you could find a job, cut your teeth for a couple of years, and then move on. Some day soon, however, you will not be able to land an EM job without an EM "specialty certification." Why would a hospital hire someone who is not certified? How long will it be until insurance companies decide they will not reimburse practitioners who are not "specialty certified?" So you say, "Fine, I'll just get my specialty certification." The catch? To become eligible to take the exam, you must have 3000 hours ("the equivalent of 18 months of full-time experience"). Here is the question - if you can't get a job without the certification, and you can't get the certification without the job, how is this supposed to work out? Since the proliferation of these exams will essentially prohibit new graduates from getting work, one can only assume that this is aimed at forcing PAs into postgradute residency programs. Next time you see a board member of the NCCPA, be sure to have some appropriately pointed words ready for them. More than any other PA organization, they are blindly, recklessly and irreversibly altering the course of our profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondoro88 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Wow, they're trying to make the PA profession less feasible and attractive. When wOuld this go into effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 It already went into effect last month. Every PA student in the US should be showing up at NCCPA HQ with pitchforks and torches over this. When concerns such as those above were brought up to the NCCPA last month at a meeting with PA educators, they noted they had "considered the issue"... but they had no response. There is even stupider stuff about the recertification process coming up for a vote at their Nov 1 meeting. The NCCPA should be thrown out of the AAPA House of Delegates and an alternate certifcation system should be established to keep them honset. Right now, they are all about the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 2, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2011 I interviewed an applicant for an empa position in august, the month before the caq was even given for the first time, and was asked if we were going to require it. my md chief looked at me like "wtf" as he had never heard of this test and I changed the subject quickly by answering "not at this time". some in em believe that this will become a defacto requirement for the better jobs within a decade to follow the physician requirement for em board certification for the better em md jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 I believe absolutely it will become a requirement, and I think well before a decade. While the NCCPA morons will always drone on about these exams being purely optional, the option will be this: either take it, or don't work. These extra tests are just going to look fantastic to the average dull-witted hospital administrator (as if there was any other kind). But on the bright side, at least you will be qualified to take the test, EMEDPA. These poor guys that are in school are in for a tough ride. Since they essentially have a monopoly over determining who is a "qualified" PA, everyone needs to understand the NCCPA is judge, jury and executioner in everything they do. If you don't like something they do, you appeal to them. There are presently more non-PAs than PAs on the NCCPA board of directors (and for what it is worth, one of the PAs appears not to have her "-C".) Wait until the new CME guidelines are published after they vote on them next month. The "practice improvement" requirement really looks like it is going to be special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondoro88 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I believe absolutely it will become a requirement, and I think well before a decade. While the NCCPA morons will always drone on about these exams being purely optional, the option will be this: either take it, or don't work. These extra tests are just going to look fantastic to the average dull-witted hospital administrator (as if there was any other kind). But on the bright side, at least you will be qualified to take the test, EMEDPA. These poor guys that are in school are in for a tough ride. Since they essentially have a monopoly over determining who is a "qualified" PA, everyone needs to understand the NCCPA is judge, jury and executioner in everything they do. If you don't like something they do, you appeal to them. There are presently more non-PAs than PAs on the NCCPA board of directors (and for what it is worth, one of the PAs appears not to have her "-C".) Wait until the new CME guidelines are published after they vote on them next month. The "practice improvement" requirement really looks like it is going to be special... How are they supposed to represent interests of PA's if they aren't well represented on the board? quite a few experienced PAs I know failed the PANRE this time, and after reading the experiences of PAs here in trying to elicit a response from the NCCPA, why doesn't the AAPA do much about this? Regarding the CAQ; I understood the policy went into effect, but when would these exams be "required" vs optional for new students? I couldn't find a clear answer on the NCCPA website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Dondoro, The AAPA has no power whatsoever over what the NCCPA does. Nada. I participated in several AAPA Houses of Delegates and the consensus was always that specialty examinations were not in our interest. The NCCPA - who also sits in the HOD - basically said "screw you, we do not care what you think." The NCCPA is not designed to protect PAs at all, per their own mission statement. It just bothers me that the NCCPA is now apparently being driven by physician interests. The NPs have been smart enough to tell the docs to lay off. Too bad we are not. The first step that should be taken is that the AAPA should expel the NCCPA from the HOD, or at least reduce them to observer status. Per NCCPA, none of these CAQs will ever be required. But one day, and one day soon, you will see the recruiting ads published for fancy facilities that will read "CAQ required." Then once the insurance industry catches wind of CAQs, I would expect them to begin refusing to reimburse non-CAQ PAs. Why in heck should they reimburse an unqualified provider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ugh, scary stuff, I just got accepted into a program, hoping the profession is not about to start getting kicked around, truly I foresaw nothing but upward trends for PA. How is this going to affect new PAs? Are we still going to be able to switch specialties or go into say surgery right off the bat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshearry Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I am a student beginning a program in January and I totally agree with you on all points, winterallsummer. It's a catch-22: no way to be hired with out caq so no way to get it! I have to be TOTALLY honest - this scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 As this policy is presently written, nothing good can come from it for anyone except the NCCPA ($$$). One day soon, it will make it harder for new grads to get a new job. One day soon, it will make it harder to switch specialties. I have been a PA through two recertification cycles, and I am ashamed that fellow PAs on the NCCPA allowed this to happen. A very small group of docs and PAs (mostly docs) have made a unilateral decision that will forever alter the nature of our profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 4, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2011 http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/185774/jh%20version%20jc%20ama%20survey%20full%20presentation.pdf?elq_mid=4785&elq_cid=156677&code=0160&sc_cid=EMAIL:1-AMASurvey2-text&elq=85a07493001e4665bc27ef8f001f31ca Guess we truly are following in the medical model - (the people in the trenchs NOT be represented by their agency) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 4, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2011 duplicate please erase......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ventana - you hit that nail on the head. Thanks for the AMA report - I will have some fun with this. Here's how to help your MD bridge program: get AAPA to support dumping the NCCPA in favor of NBME. The NBME has extensive experience with validated exams (USMLEs) and all of their stats are open book, not like the cloak and dagger NCCPA crap. PAs start taking tests that look a lot like USMLEs and perform comparably to medial students on them, well, let's connect some dots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtney.luoma Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 It's probably going to be like nursing specialty certifications... plus if you have it... but not a big deal if you don't. Usually, the nurses who have been in a field for over 2 years (or certain number of hours) can sit for a specialty exam... like CCRN (Critcal Care RN). The CCRN is in addition to the RN (NCLEX exam). If these exams aren't "required" then I don't think it will affect reimbursement, hiring, etc. Now if they start specialty PA programs like NP programs... that's another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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